Letting Bush walk: Doesn't mean we need to acquire another RB, smart business move

[dannysc305]

First off, investing a low 2nd round pick and a high 4th round pick in the RB position is not exactly overkill.

Second, it doesn't matter because Daniel Thomas is a bust. You don't get yardage awarded to you by the referees on Sunday because he was drafted high. When the referees call the ball down short of the goal line you don't get to throw the challenge flag and point out that you paid an extra 5th and 7th for Thomas so we should be awarded that touchdown.

Smh. It is overkill. It's not just a 2 and a 4. Its a 5,7,6,6,2,4. 6 draft spots invested into 2 players. You're not going to want that to go to waste. In a league where guys like Victor Cruz and Arian Foster go undrafted, those are valuable picks.

I like how you just write Daniel Thomas off like that though. As if his past gives you any indication of his future. As if being injury and fumble prone your first few years defines him as a player and there's no chance he can turn it around. People were saying the same thing about Reggie Bush, and look at him now. Even CJ Spiller. Like its out of question to think he can actually stay healthy a full year and not fumble as much. Like he can't turn around his career. Since you know he's a bust and can't be any good for us next year and can see in the future I'd definately like to borrow your crystal ball. Daniel can give you some production spelling Miller, and in the red zone. I think he brings good value to the table long as he's healthy. He'll be a 2nd string back in a passing offense, we're not asking too much of him. Smh. Know it all media type.

 

[1-4-damoney-Tua-4-dashow]

So if/when Miller blows out his knee in preseason your gonna be comfortable watching Daniel Thomas come trotting onto the field? I know I am not.

I am one who thinks letting Bush walk is a mistake. Not only is he a proven producer who we should have utilized more but I am also 100% sure he will be a Jet if he is not with us. Now just to keep him off a rivals roster is no reason to resign a player, but when that player is a consistent thousand yard rusher for us who can catch balls like a wide out and is a leader in the locker room, its different and him ending up on a rivals roster will hurt this team.

That being said, I agree that we are not going to resign Bush. It scares me because I just picture the turn stile we had at running back all those years Dan was here and how much that hindered that teams potential. The more logical thing to me would be to resign Bush for a few years and then if Miller proves he can be that number 1 back, whether its this year or next, we trade bush for picks. We may not get a lot but we will get something because he is Reggie Bush and can be plugged into any system and produce. You think Green Bay wouldn't be interested in his services as the final piece to a super bowl run? I dunno maybe I am crazy but that's my thinking here. We shouldn't make a strength a weakness when we don't have many strengths to begin with. I know people are gonna bring up money and yes if he wants some ridiculous contract then send him packing but I am working under the assumption that his contract will be reasonable.

On to your statement that we don't even need to bring in another back when we let Bush walk. That is an even bigger mistake as I reference the picture I painted at the beginning of this post. This Draft has a lot of talent that will be available late at the RB position. I am a big Montee Ball fan and think he is gonna be a great back in this league for years. Of course who we get will all depend on who falls but I don't see us leaving this draft without a RB at some point, unless of course we resign Bush.

 

[NY8123]

Christine Michael would be an obvious possibility coming out of Texas A&M. He found himself in Kevin Sumlin's doghouse, but Mike Sherman and staff seemed to love him.

But keep an eye on Mike Goodson in free agency. Another Texas A&M tailback that Sherman coached. He's got some nice looking plays in the NFL.

I'd love me some Lacey with one of those seconds if he happens to be there.

 

[dannysc305]

What has Daniel Thomas done in this League? Not a damn thing. He's always injured and fumbles a lot. I have no faith in him. And for that matter, what has Lamar Miller done. Reggie Bush is a proven commodity, Thomas and Miller aren't.

Give em opportunities to prove themselves gosh things can change you know. WHAT HAS LAMAR MILLER DONE? Idk bro you tell me, what did you expect him to do while he was on the bench? He only got 51 carries this year? You want 500 yards out of that? He gave you 250 for 4.9 per carry while flashing some serious potential. When he actually gets carries he gives you 10 for 65 for 6.5 ypc vs oak 9 for 48 5.3 ypc vs nyj and 10 for 73 7.3 ypc vs buf. And everybody knows backs need carries to produce, they need to get in a rhythm, they get better as the game goes on as the defense fatigues. Miller hasnt got that yet.

---------- Post added at 03:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:23 PM ----------

I'd love me some Lacey with one of those seconds if he happens to be there.

SMH a 2nd on another back wow bro. To each his own I guess. I just hope Jeff Ireland doesn't think the way some of you do.

 

[dannysc305]

So if/when Miller blows out his knee in preseason your gonna be comfortable watching Daniel Thomas come trotting onto the field? I know I am not.

I am one who thinks letting Bush walk is a mistake. Not only is he a proven producer who we should have utilized more but I am also 100% sure he will be a Jet if he is not with us. Now just to keep him off a rivals roster is no reason to resign a player, but when that player is a consistent thousand yard rusher for us who can catch balls like a wide out and is a leader in the locker room, its different and him ending up on a rivals roster will hurt this team.

That being said, I agree that we are not going to resign Bush. It scares me because I just picture the turn stile we had at running back all those years Dan was here and how much that hindered that teams potential. The more logical thing to me would be to resign Bush for a few years and then if Miller proves he can be that number 1 back, whether its this year or next, we trade bush for picks. We may not get a lot but we will get something because he is Reggie Bush and can be plugged into any system and produce. You think Green Bay wouldn't be interested in his services as the final piece to a super bowl run? I dunno maybe I am crazy but that's my thinking here. We shouldn't make a strength a weakness when we don't have many strengths to begin with. I know people are gonna bring up money and yes if he wants some ridiculous contract then send him packing but I am working under the assumption that his contract will be reasonable.

On to your statement that we don't even need to bring in another back when we let Bush walk. That is an even bigger mistake as I reference the picture I painted at the beginning of this post. This Draft has a lot of talent that will be available late at the RB position. I am a big Montee Ball fan and think he is gonna be a great back in this league for years. Of course who we get will all depend on who falls but I don't see us leaving this draft without a RB at some point, unless of course we resign Bush.

Yeah I meant not getting a back to start. I agree to get one for depth. But as far as depth I think Marcus Thigpen can get in there and play a little RB. Like really man RBs go on trees its not that serious. Look at the Patriots. Woodhead? Ridley? Vereen? Who are those guys? But they produce.

 

[dannysc305]

All I'm going to say is Lamar Miller will take the league by storm a la CJ spiller and whether you believe it or not is your decision everyones entitled to their own opinion but I know what I'm talking about.

 

[ckparrothead]

Smh. It is overkill. It's not just a 2 and a 4. Its a 5,7,6,6,2,4. 6 draft spots invested into 2 players. You're not going to want that to go to waste. In a league where guys like Victor Cruz and Arian Foster go undrafted, those are valuable picks.

First off, your accounting is shoddy. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too by talking about the 2nd round pick we gave up for Daniel Thomas AND talking about the 5th and 7th that we used to move up from the 3rd round for him. It's either a late-2nd, or a 3rd, 5th and 7th. Pick one or the other, otherwise your argument is not to be taken seriously.

Second, it doesn't really matter what picks went into trading up for the picks where they were taken. The values match up. They spent a low-2nd pick and high-4th round pick's worth of value on the RB position. If you wanted to you could have probably traded the Michael Egnew pick for a 4th, 5th and two 6th round picks. Does that mean we used 4 picks on the tight end position? No. We used a mid-3rd.

I like how you just write Daniel Thomas off like that though. As if his past gives you any indication of his future. As if being injury and fumble prone your first few years defines him as a player and there's no chance he can turn it around. People were saying the same thing about Reggie Bush, and look at him now. Even CJ Spiller. Like its out of question to think he can actually stay healthy a full year and not fumble as much. Like he can't turn around his career. Since you know he's a bust and can't be any good for us next year and can see in the future I'd definately like to borrow your crystal ball. Daniel can give you some production spelling Miller, and in the red zone. I think he brings good value to the table long as he's healthy. He'll be a 2nd string back in a passing offense, we're not asking too much of him. Smh. Know it all media type.

I'm writing off Daniel Thomas because two years into the league he's still averaging only 3.5 yards per carry. For a short yardage and goal line guy he's not very effective at either of those things. By the end of Reggie Bush's second year he might have only been averaging 3.8 yards per carry but at least he caught 161 balls for 1159 yards and had scored 15 touchdowns. Daniel Thomas is averaging 3.5 yards per carry, has only caught 27 balls, and has only scored 5 touchdowns. While fumbling the ball 5 times. As for C.J. Spiller, the comparison isn't even close. Or at least, not by a rational person. By the end of his second season Spiller was averaging 4.7 yards per carry, had 63 catches for 426 yards and had scored 8 touchdowns. He had also shown tremendous progress from his 1st season to his 2nd season, which Thomas did not.

But I see. Everyone who disagrees with you is a "know it all media type". Nice. Keep living in your own little world, man.

---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------

All I'm going to say is Lamar Miller will take the league by storm a la CJ spiller and whether you believe it or not is your decision everyones entitled to their own opinion but I know what I'm talking about.

Then you should represent yourself better than you are currently doing.

 

[Cleetus]

This kind of thinking is what got us in deep water with the state of our recieving corps. Ireland and a lot of you overestimated the quality of the talent presently on the roster.

 

[Twitches Brew]

Combined 2012 stats from your proposed 1-2 Miller-Thomas punch:
142 carries for 575 yds, 4.0per. 200 yds rec. 5 total TDs. That's not 'competent'.

Neither of them are good options to have on the field on 3rd downs, short yardage, or on the goalline. Like you said, Miller is the same player he was in college: runs soft inside, cannot pass-protect, and has little feel for the receiving game. Now, I think he'll improve, but you cannot go into the season with a young QB and a generally crappy offense with the running game in the hands of mediocre Daniel Thomas and a guy who wasn't good enough to get more than 50 carries the year prior. That's just an irresponsible, misguided roster...oh and it lacks depth too, while we're at it.

Aren't we always talking about what Alfred Morris, Frank Gore, and Marshawn Lynch do for their young QBs?

 

[ckparrothead]

Combined 2012 stats from your proposed 1-2 punch:
142 carries for 575 yds, 4.0per. 200 yds rec. 5 total TDs. That's not 'competent'.

Neither of them are good options to have on the field on 3rd downs, short yardage, or on the goalline. Like you said, Miller is the same player he was in college: runs soft inside, cannot pass-protect, and has little feel for the receiving game. Now, I think he'll improve, but you cannot go into the season with a young QB and a generally crappy offense with the running game in the hands of mediocre Daniel Thomas and a guy who wasn't good enough to get more than 50 carries the year prior. That's just an irresponsible, misguided roster...oh and it lacks depth too, while we're at it.

Aren't we always talking about what Alfred Morris, Frank Gore, and Marshawn Lynch do for their young QBs?

I agree with you but mostly because of Daniel Thomas. I think Lamar Miller would be fine as your primary tailback on 1st & 10, 2nd & 10, etc. I think if you were to finagle a Mike Goodson out of Oakland then he could rotate into the picture on those downs and be your 3rd down guy. Then you could try Jonas Gray out in more of your short yardage and power situations.

 

[dannysc305]

First off, your accounting is shoddy. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too by talking about the 2nd round pick we gave up for Daniel Thomas AND talking about the 5th and 7th that we used to move up from the 3rd round for him. It's either a late-2nd, or a 3rd, 5th and 7th. Pick one or the other, otherwise your argument is not to be taken seriously.

Second, it doesn't really matter what picks went into trading up for the picks where they were taken. The values match up. They spent a low-2nd pick and high-4th round pick's worth of value on the RB position. If you wanted to you could have probably traded the Michael Egnew pick for a 4th, 5th and two 6th round picks. Does that mean we used 4 picks on the tight end position? No. We used a mid-3rd.



I'm writing off Daniel Thomas because two years into the league he's still averaging only 3.5 yards per carry. For a short yardage and goal line guy he's not very effective at either of those things. By the end of Reggie Bush's second year he might have only been averaging 3.8 yards per carry but at least he caught 161 balls for 1159 yards and had scored 15 touchdowns. Daniel Thomas is averaging 3.5 yards per carry, has only caught 27 balls, and has only scored 5 touchdowns. While fumbling the ball 5 times. As for C.J. Spiller, the comparison isn't even close. Or at least, not by a rational person. By the end of his second season Spiller was averaging 4.7 yards per carry, had 63 catches for 426 yards and had scored 8 touchdowns. He had also shown tremendous progress from his 1st season to his 2nd season, which Thomas did not.

But I see. Everyone who disagrees with you is a "know it all media type". Nice. Keep living in your own little world, man.

---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------



Then you should represent yourself better than you are currently doing.

Not everyone who disagrees with me is a know it all media type. Just a specific shot at you. I get a sense of an over inflated ego coming from you just cause you have a little reputation on this board and write for a couple no name sources and have been a guest on the NFL Network before. Daniel Thomas is a back up and he's capable of doing what we are going to ask him to, simple as that. No need to dive into metrics and over analyze the situation.

I blame our abysmal O-line play for Thomas's failure. Its tough to be the downhill runner he is when there's no place to go downhill. It is imperative that the line gives him some kind of crease to run through because he's not the type to bounce it outside when it's not there he's the type to put his head down and burrow through there to scrape off whatever yardage he gets. That's what I believe his low YPC is attributed to. Injury and fumbling is his own problem, I'm not naive to that, though.

 

[TealAttack13]

I'm pretty sure the Dolphins will look at acquiring a significant tailback either in free agency or in the Draft.

In fact I know that they're investigating some high caliber ones.

Yeah, while I agree that moving up to get those other guys indicates a chance that the team will get them serious looks, you need to roll with a RB who could replace Reggie's production. I don't think those other two can get it done. If you want to move forward, you need to get someone in there who can get it done.

 

[dannysc305]

Combined 2012 stats from your proposed 1-2 Miller-Thomas punch:
142 carries for 575 yds, 4.0per. 200 yds rec. 5 total TDs. That's not 'competent'.

Neither of them are good options to have on the field on 3rd downs, short yardage, or on the goalline. Like you said, Miller is the same player he was in college: runs soft inside, cannot pass-protect, and has little feel for the receiving game. Now, I think he'll improve, but you cannot go into the season with a young QB and a generally crappy offense with the running game in the hands of mediocre Daniel Thomas and a guy who wasn't good enough to get more than 50 carries the year prior. That's just an irresponsible, misguided roster...oh and it lacks depth too, while we're at it.

Aren't we always talking about what Alfred Morris, Frank Gore, and Marshawn Lynch do for their young QBs?

That's actually pretty good production from those guys. They don't even start. They don't get carries. They don't get into a rhythm. They get 4 yards per carry. That is absolutely competent. Anything under that is incompetent.

Miller runs soft inside? Don't think so. Finds the hole. Hits it with authority. He's not going to trample anyone, but he's not soft. He'll take the contact. Reggie's soft. He shies away from contact.

Can not pass protect? So what? Why not? Says who? Don't care.

Little feel for receiving game? Don't know what you're taking about, flares, screens, and little short routes out of the backfield aren't that hard to catch. Tanny will put them on him. Never heard of Miller having issues with drops. Can't run routes? Doesn't really matter. Not in his job description. He can catch a short pass and make people miss. You probably haven't seen it yet. But he could do it. Its not that hard.

Mediocre running game in the hands of Daniel Thomas? NO. Lamar Miller.

A guy not good enough to get more than 50 carries? I don't know, you tell me how many carries a 3rd string back in his first year is supposed to get. It's not a matter of talent. He's plenty good enough. Just a matter of there's a guy taking up all the carries and play time by the name of uhhh I don't know? REGGIE BUSH

Morris Gore Lynch- All start for run first offenses.

 

[ckparrothead]

Not everyone who disagrees with me is a know it all media type. Just a specific shot at you. I get a sense of an over inflated ego coming from you just cause you have a little reputation on this board and write for a couple no name sources and have been a guest on the NFL Network before.

LOL. Right. Because I disagree with you. The primary difference between me as someone who disagrees with you and you don't take pot shots at, is just all the stuff you stated. Other people disagree with you just as strongly and in fact way more disrespectfully, but because I've got 4000 twitter followers I'm a "know it all media type".

Daniel Thomas is a back up and he's capable of doing what we are going to ask him to, simple as that. No need to dive into metrics and over analyze the situation.

Who needs facts or evidence, when you've got an opinion?

I blame our abysmal O-line play for Thomas's failure. Its tough to be the downhill runner he is when there's no place to go downhill. It is imperative that the line gives him some kind of crease to run through because he's not the type to bounce it outside when it's not there he's the type to put his head down and burrow through there to scrape off whatever yardage he gets. That's what I believe his low YPC is attributed to. Injury and fumbling is his own problem, I'm not naive to that, though.

Offensive line didn't stop Reggie Bush or Lamar Miller from running for high YPC.

 

[Finland]

So let's see... not only does Philbin's offense not require the #1 back (and apparently a #1 WR, or a #1 TE, or a #1 QB... what other excuses are we going to hear from that?) but you're sitting there trying to sell me on Daniel Thomas.

Mr Fumbles
Mr Injury
Mr Upright running.

Okay yeah you've sold me, I'm entirely comfortable with a guy who has NEVER proven healthy at the NFL level

Funny I agree with your thought. Enough of this magic Philbin system that does not need #1 backs and #1 receivers. Give me a break. I guess we are mincing words now. OK lets get some playmakers instead!