Letting Bush walk: Doesn't mean we need to acquire another RB, smart business move

[TealAttack13]

Offensive line didn't stop Reggie Bush or Lamar Miller from running for high YPC.

Good point. Reggie is pretty solid and can probably make plays no matter where he is, but it's a good argument.

 

[dannysc305]

God I hope Miller and Thomas do their thing next year and prove all their doubters wrong and when they do I'm calling CK the fake journalist out

 

[MexDolfan]

Some of you guys are going to have to come to grips with the fact the we are not going re-sign Reggie Bush. Ireland spent a 2nd and a 4th on Daniel and Lamar while Reggie was here, and moved up both times to do so. He's going to want to see those picks pay dividends. We're going to save a good chunk of money letting Reggie walk, and I have absolutely no problem with it. We can use that money on some big strong lineman that can open up lanes for our homegrown Miami product Lamar Miller, who's been here all of his life. Born and raised in Miami, went to Miami Killian Senior High School, University of Miami, and now the Miami Dolphins. He worked very hard to get where he is and the Dolphins are going to give the hometown guy an opportunity. If Lamar gets the carries Reggie got or more, he can give you Reggie's production. I'm telling you guys, Lamar Miller runs with decisiveness and can hit a hole. Watch what he did at the U. All he ever did was rip off long gains. He takes the handoff, finds the hole, cuts into it with amazing burst and acceleration, and once he's at the 2nd level he's gone with 4.37 speed. He average a good YPG last year while he was used sparingly and was still trying to get acclimated with the speed of the NFL game. Now that he has some experience he's ready to take over.

Just cause Reggie is leaving doesn't mean we need to draft or sign another back. We already have 2 competent runningbacks on our roster that know how to hit holes going north and south and can consistently gain positive yardage on every run, instead of dancing in the backfield every down. I'd rather have a back that can give me 5 yards on each carry instead of a back whose 5 carries go for gains of 0,1,1,1,0, and then the occasional 10+ yard run. I feel you guys are really downplaying what Miller brings to the table, he is everything reggie is, and probably better. Just as fast or faster, just as strong or stronger, shifty, elusive, without the durability and carrying concerns. Reminds me of LeSean McCoy. Starting Miller, and then having the rumbling,bumbling,stumbling...hopefully no longer fumbling...big tough bruising downhill runner in Daniel Thomas to spell him...is a great 1-2 punch for a great price. Talk about getting a bang for your buck.

Philbin's system doesn't require that expensive feature back people think it does. We are going to make the transition to a pass first offense this season once we get Ryan Tannehill some legitimate targets. If you remember, Philbin wanted to do that last year, but then he said he wasn't naive to the fact that the team wasn't built type of offense at the time and he made the adjustment to make us more of a running/playaction team to fit the roster better. We already have good backs that we moved up in the draft for, we're going to save money, and we're going to use it on more important things like a pass rusher, DB, recieving target whether it be WR or TE, an OL, something. But definitely not a runningback. That's all, folks.

Hey dannysc305 I simply don't get it.
Daniel Thomas and Lamar Miller are great guys, I have nothing against them, but stats show none of them will equal Reggie Bush.

PLAYER NAME	ATT	YRD	AVG	FD	TD	REC	YRD	AVG	FD	TD	LF
Reggie Bush	227	986	4.3	43	6	35 / 52	292	8.3	14	2	2
Daniel Thomas	91	325	91	15	4	15 / 22	156	10.4	5	0	2
Lamar Miller	51	250	4.9	12	1	3 / 8	45	7.5	4	0	0

Reggie was used as all purpose player, he was RB, TE & WR.

Also both Thomas and Miller have questionable durability. Thomas was KO a pair of times in the season and Miller had a list of knee issues on college.

In case they opt to move out of Reggie, I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Ireland and crew, but in that case they'll need to have another plan based on drafting or adquiring another RB.

 

[dannysc305]

Hey dannysc305 I simply don't get it.
Daniel Thomas and Lamar Miller are great guys, I have nothing against them, but stats show none of them will equal Reggie Bush.

PLAYER NAME	ATT	YRD	AVG	FD	TD	REC	YRD	AVG	FD	TD	LF
Reggie Bush	227	986	4.3	43	6	35 / 52	292	8.3	14	2	2
Daniel Thomas	91	325	91	15	4	15 / 22	156	10.4	5	0	2
Lamar Miller	51	250	4.9	12	1	3 / 8	45	7.5	4	0	0

Reggie was used as all purpose player, he was RB, TE & WR.

Also both Thomas and Miller have questionable durability. Thomas was KO a pair of times in the season and Miller had a list of knee issues on college.

In case they opt to move out of Reggie, I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Ireland and crew, but in that case they'll need to have another plan based on drafting or adquiring another RB.

That's the past. Those are numbers from past production. No telling what they can produce in the future. I'm a fan, I stick by my team and faithfully root for them to succeed. And I believe they can and will, regardless of what they've done in the past. Reggie Bush is overrated and it's not pie-the-sky to replace his production. Players do improve, you know. Especially young ones.

 

[finfan54]

First off, your accounting is shoddy. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too by talking about the 2nd round pick we gave up for Daniel Thomas AND talking about the 5th and 7th that we used to move up from the 3rd round for him. It's either a late-2nd, or a 3rd, 5th and 7th. Pick one or the other, otherwise your argument is not to be taken seriously.

Second, it doesn't really matter what picks went into trading up for the picks where they were taken. The values match up. They spent a low-2nd pick and high-4th round pick's worth of value on the RB position. If you wanted to you could have probably traded the Michael Egnew pick for a 4th, 5th and two 6th round picks. Does that mean we used 4 picks on the tight end position? No. We used a mid-3rd.



I'm writing off Daniel Thomas because two years into the league he's still averaging only 3.5 yards per carry. For a short yardage and goal line guy he's not very effective at either of those things. By the end of Reggie Bush's second year he might have only been averaging 3.8 yards per carry but at least he caught 161 balls for 1159 yards and had scored 15 touchdowns. Daniel Thomas is averaging 3.5 yards per carry, has only caught 27 balls, and has only scored 5 touchdowns. While fumbling the ball 5 times. As for C.J. Spiller, the comparison isn't even close. Or at least, not by a rational person. By the end of his second season Spiller was averaging 4.7 yards per carry, had 63 catches for 426 yards and had scored 8 touchdowns. He had also shown tremendous progress from his 1st season to his 2nd season, which Thomas did not.

But I see. Everyone who disagrees with you is a "know it all media type". Nice. Keep living in your own little world, man.

---------- Post added at 03:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------



Then you should represent yourself better than you are currently doing.

I agree with this. I believe we will draft a RB and give Thomas competition. He needs some inspiration and become a work out warrior if he wants to take it to the next level. Bringing another guy in can help in that regard. Then you trade him if he doesnt for a 7th rounder or something.

People have to remember Philbin wasnt here two years ago. Ireland said he is marrying himself to Philbin which basically is getting groceries he likes.

I also keep thinking they are looking for a 230-240lb guy FB type. Not sure they are all that on the A&M kid. He looks like he was hitting the chicken wings by midseason again.

 

[MRojas4]

I'm all for bringing Reggie back. DT is a bust and Miller has shown promise. Basically we have two decent backs. I'm not banking the season on Gray having some breakout year or DT for that matter. We all know Miller can play but he can't block. Some people on here are taking a Madden approach to this thinking one RB can last the whole season.

 

[MexDolfan]

That's the past. Those are numbers from past production. No telling what they can produce in the future. I'm a fan, I stick by my team and faithfully root for them to succeed. And I believe they can and will, regardless of what they've done in the past. Reggie Bush is overrated and it's not pie-the-sky to replace his production. Players do improve, you know. Especially young ones.

I have been bleeding aqua and orange since elementary school man!

But would love to see improvement not absurdly risky situations.
Miller and Thomas are too fragile to carry the load during a full season, that's my reason to ask for another RB.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

As if being injury and fumble prone your first few years defines him as a player and there's no chance he can turn it around. People were saying the same thing about Reggie Bush, and look at him now.

That was almost too funny. All it lacked was the exclamation point. Look at him now? You want to get rid of him.

I'm in the Reggie Bush camp but I don't want to get rid of Lamer Miller. Hardly. Why is the opposite correlation so strong, that the Miller backers are determined to get rid of Reggie? We have all this cap room yet instead of wiggling here and there while keeping a proven playmaker we're intent on pretending a few million to this lineman and that lineman is a superior investment.

Granted, we could probably score 18 points per game again, with or without Reggie Bush. There's only so much room down below. NFL teams don't score 10 points per game. It's the reason the Reggie knockers have so much free margin toward 2013. No matter who the personnel is, it's almost guaranteed the scoring average bounces upward, the natural flirtation with the league mean. And then all the geniuses can pronounce it's Reggie's absence that ignited the upward movement. I've seen that type of rationalization for decades.

If we're contending for a playoff role, Reggie Bush can make the difference in a game or two, and in the playoff setting itself. That should be the criteria. The NFL is flooded with tight games. That's why it's insanity to go back over the schedule and announce we should be 9-7 instead of 7-9 because we lost one game by 3 and another in overtime, or whatever, while ignoring all the narrow wins, as if those were destined to unfold that way. I stick results into Excel and calculate formulas literally every day. Today I'm working on 2010. Games are close. They'll be close. I don't know how we happily evaluate the roster and conclude we're better off in a competitive game without Reggie Bush. It's the type of situation in which the public is actually far better informed than the obsessed fan. Sit in the stands at a Dolphin game and ask for a list of the top players. Reggie Bush's name will pop up immediately, within the top handful. Ask who we can least afford to get rid of and once again his name is early and emphatic. The public knows touchdowns. On sites like this too often it's like a board game, moving pieces around while mock drafting a year away and proposing trades that always obscenely favor the home team.

 

[TealAttack13]

I'm all for bringing Reggie back.

He doesn't seem keen on coming back because he knows there are teams out there that are going to offer him a lot of money and commit to him long term, we simply aren't going to do that. I'd like him back too, I like him a lot, but I think it's time to look past him. For all intents and purposes, he's gone.

 

[MexDolfan]

That's actually pretty good production from those guys. They don't even start. They don't get carries. They don't get into a rhythm. They get 4 yards per carry. That is absolutely competent. Anything under that is incompetent.

Miller runs soft inside? Don't think so. Finds the hole. Hits it with authority. He's not going to trample anyone, but he's not soft. He'll take the contact. Reggie's soft. He shies away from contact.

Can not pass protect? So what? Why not? Says who? Don't care.

Little feel for receiving game? Don't know what you're taking about, flares, screens, and little short routes out of the backfield aren't that hard to catch. Tanny will put them on him. Never heard of Miller having issues with drops. Can't run routes? Doesn't really matter. Not in his job description. He can catch a short pass and make people miss. You probably haven't seen it yet. But he could do it. Its not that hard.

Mediocre running game in the hands of Daniel Thomas? NO. Lamar Miller.

A guy not good enough to get more than 50 carries? I don't know, you tell me how many carries a 3rd string back in his first year is supposed to get. It's not a matter of talent. He's plenty good enough. Just a matter of there's a guy taking up all the carries and play time by the name of uhhh I don't know? REGGIE BUSH

Morris Gore Lynch- All start for run first offenses.

You should be kidding.

Joe Philbin wants an effective WCO and the foundations of such offense is to allow your passer to fake a run and get time to evaluate his best shoot while passing.
Also after faking, the RB becomes another target for the passer. And each potential target must help whoever carries the football to get as many YAC as possible.

So a WCO RB must be capable of protecting his passer and blocking in order to be successful.

The answer to "Why not?" is you can't go to Kwik-E-Mart and ask for a package of blocking technique. This has to be developed by training. Some guys require less repetition, other delay a year or more. In example Egnew saw few action on his rookie season because he was incapable of blocking.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

And everybody knows backs need carries to produce, they need to get in a rhythm, they get better as the game goes on as the defense fatigues.

Actually, the Reggie Bush knockers argue exactly the opposite around here, that he shouldn't get more than 10-12 carries per game, even though that flies in the face of his career tendencies and stats.

 

[dannysc305]

That was almost too funny. All it lacked was the exclamation point. Look at him now? You want to get rid of him. .

Only because he's a waste of money. We have runningbacks already. We can use his money on some CBs or something. If I'm Jeff Ireland I'm offering 3 mil, take it or leave it, I could care less. Lamar Miller's the heir to the throne.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

but because I've got 4000 twitter followers I'm a "know it all media type".

That was a pretty sly way to slip that in there.

Not that I blame you. A little bit of justified self promotion never hurts.

When a thread gains two pages rather suddenly, it's either a hot button topic, or two guys arguing back and forth. I'm happy to stay out of the latter example these days, unlike my early internet years. No patience for it, and I tend to get chippy as the responses progress. That's the natural tendency. I find myself saying, wow they don't realize how bad this looks. That's not the case here, more civil than typical. But overall the long exchanges accomplish far less than the required time expenditure, IMO.

 

[MexDolfan]

That was almost too funny. All it lacked was the exclamation point. Look at him now? You want to get rid of him.

I'm in the Reggie Bush camp but I don't want to get rid of Lamer Miller. Hardly. Why is the opposite correlation so strong, that the Miller backers are determined to get rid of Reggie? We have all this cap room yet instead of wiggling here and there while keeping a proven playmaker we're intent on pretending a few million to this lineman and that lineman is a superior investment.

Granted, we could probably score 18 points per game again, with or without Reggie Bush. There's only so much room down below. NFL teams don't score 10 points per game. It's the reason the Reggie knockers have so much free margin toward 2013. No matter who the personnel is, it's almost guaranteed the scoring average bounces upward, the natural flirtation with the league mean. And then all the geniuses can pronounce it's Reggie's absence that ignited the upward movement. I've seen that type of rationalization for decades.

If we're contending for a playoff role, Reggie Bush can make the difference in a game or two, and in the playoff setting itself. That should be the criteria. The NFL is flooded with tight games. That's why it's insanity to go back over the schedule and announce we should be 9-7 instead of 7-9 because we lost one game by 3 and another in overtime, or whatever, while ignoring all the narrow wins, as if those were destined to unfold that way. I stick results into Excel and calculate formulas literally every day. Today I'm working on 2010. Games are close. They'll be close. I don't know how we happily evaluate the roster and conclude we're better off in a competitive game without Reggie Bush. It's the type of situation in which the public is actually far better informed than the obsessed fan. Sit in the stands at a Dolphin game and ask for a list of the top players. Reggie Bush's name will pop up immediately, within the top handful. Ask who we can least afford to get rid of and once again his name is early and emphatic. The public knows touchdowns. On sites like this too often it's like a board game, moving pieces around while mock drafting a year away and proposing trades that always obscenely favor the home team.

I'm a huge fan of Reggie, but also we must focus on results.

Today's rules lead teams to focus on pass offense. So RB have lesser roles now. Market says once superstars, are second tier team members. Reggie is special because he's above most RB in terms he turns into a serviceable target for passing offense. But Dolphins need to invest on adding tools for Ryan Tannehill: pass protection (offensive line) and multiple sure targets (wide receivers & tight ends) before dealing with a backfield that many coaches think was somehow overloaded.

The defense is a mirror effect of this and Dolphins have several months to find a way to add a pair of quality CB.

That said Miami has too many holes to fill to focus on a second tier participant.

 

[ckparrothead]

That was a pretty sly way to slip that in there.

Not that I blame you. A little bit of justified self promotion never hurts.

Strange because it was actually the opposite. If I wanted shameless self-promotion I'd quote all the things he brought up. I guess I view twitter and the concept of twitter followers differently. Trivial, almost comedic. Like a sitcom one-liner.

When a thread gains two pages rather suddenly, it's either a hot button topic, or two guys arguing back and forth. I'm happy to stay out of the latter example these days, unlike my early internet years. No patience for it, and I tend to get chippy as the responses progress. That's the natural tendency. I find myself saying, wow they don't realize how bad this looks. That's not the case here, more civil than typical. But overall the long exchanges accomplish far less than the required time expenditure, IMO.

On that we can agree.