MP-Omnis
Just don't blow it!
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I'd rather have Jerry Hughes than Carlos Duncelap.
McClain vs Spikes
- Thread starter flynryan15
- Start date
I'd rather have Jerry Hughes than Carlos Duncelap.
RustyGator
Just Awesome
I'm not as high on Carlos Dunlap as the scouts are. Sometimes these "scouts" just look at physical stats and that's it (i.e., DHB last year). Don't get me wrong, Dunlap is built for success...but he's kind of a premadona. He's definitely boom or bust...per game. It's obvious that he's a selfish person, given that he got piss-*** drunk just a few days before SECCG...he only cares about the "green" and once he gets it, I question his motivation afterward.
I love Spikes. I think it's lazy for people to compare him to Crowder though (since they both come from UF). The intensity and leadership that Spikes brings is 3-fold over Crowder. Crowder never showed the type of leadership that Spikes shows...not now, and not when at UF a few years back. Spikes will be a much more successful linebacker in the NFL than Crowder. Whether or not Spikes is the answer for the Dolphins, however, that's a different story.
I don't have much of a comparison to McClain though. I've heard great things about him, but haven't seen him play enough to draw a comparison. Obviously, he's very talented though.
I love Spikes. I think it's lazy for people to compare him to Crowder though (since they both come from UF). The intensity and leadership that Spikes brings is 3-fold over Crowder. Crowder never showed the type of leadership that Spikes shows...not now, and not when at UF a few years back. Spikes will be a much more successful linebacker in the NFL than Crowder. Whether or not Spikes is the answer for the Dolphins, however, that's a different story.
I don't have much of a comparison to McClain though. I've heard great things about him, but haven't seen him play enough to draw a comparison. Obviously, he's very talented though.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I agree, he stands out to me even when I'm not trying to watch him at all.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
VERY lazy.
However, one thing they have in common aside from being from UF, being african american, and having dreads, is they're both unselfish players. They both do the dirty work that sets other people up to make the play.
Pachyderm_Wave
Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ
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As good as these cutups are....they're still only a sample....there's still much more evidence out there....
Maybe both players games against Kentucky.... (where McClain single handedly forced 3 turnovers....2 INT's and a forced fumble)....Miss St....and Tennessee (where Spikes was run through straight up by Montario Hardesty, etc.)....would make a nice addition?
Spikes is a grunt work linebacker....McClain is a playmaking linebacker...
While it may be unfair to make a sweeping generalization and lump Spikes in with Crowder....it's not as far off as you think either...
Miami needs an upgrade at ILB by acquiring one that is adept at playing in a 3-4 defense and making plays.....McClain is that guy IMO...
If by our own admission Spikes and Crowder are grunt work linebackers....then basically it's not that far fetched to assume that we'd only be changing the name on the back of the jersey with the addition of Spikes as opposed to really upgrading the position...
McClain is the guy that's more equipped to match up with TE's in man coverage and backs out of the backfield etc....which is what kills Miami's defense...
Personally, I find it hard to give Spikes a 1st round grade....the athletic upside, and upside as a football player certainly favors McClain as well IMO...
I think a team can get essentially a very comparable player to Spikes in Micah Johnson.....in fact....I really like Johnson.....I don't see any Rolando McClain's in college football...
Maybe both players games against Kentucky.... (where McClain single handedly forced 3 turnovers....2 INT's and a forced fumble)....Miss St....and Tennessee (where Spikes was run through straight up by Montario Hardesty, etc.)....would make a nice addition?
Spikes is a grunt work linebacker....McClain is a playmaking linebacker...
While it may be unfair to make a sweeping generalization and lump Spikes in with Crowder....it's not as far off as you think either...
Miami needs an upgrade at ILB by acquiring one that is adept at playing in a 3-4 defense and making plays.....McClain is that guy IMO...
If by our own admission Spikes and Crowder are grunt work linebackers....then basically it's not that far fetched to assume that we'd only be changing the name on the back of the jersey with the addition of Spikes as opposed to really upgrading the position...
McClain is the guy that's more equipped to match up with TE's in man coverage and backs out of the backfield etc....which is what kills Miami's defense...
Personally, I find it hard to give Spikes a 1st round grade....the athletic upside, and upside as a football player certainly favors McClain as well IMO...
I think a team can get essentially a very comparable player to Spikes in Micah Johnson.....in fact....I really like Johnson.....I don't see any Rolando McClain's in college football...
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I think there's a certain amount of objectivity that's been lost when a guy who has 6 interceptions, 4 Touchdowns and 7 sacks over the last two years is referred to as a "grunt work linebacker".
Since you're the one bringing up the games we DIDN'T see, and then talking about how McClain is a bigger playmaker, I would think that you would be interested in seeing a statistical analysis, since the statistics tally up the games we didn't see and give us ratios as opposed to just a view of three games.
I don't know how to make a table on this code but this should work, even though it ends up reading sort of diagonal down...
Since you're the one bringing up the games we DIDN'T see, and then talking about how McClain is a bigger playmaker, I would think that you would be interested in seeing a statistical analysis, since the statistics tally up the games we didn't see and give us ratios as opposed to just a view of three games.
I don't know how to make a table on this code but this should work, even though it ends up reading sort of diagonal down...
Statistic
Brandon Spikes
Rolondo McClain
Tackles Per Game:
6.5
7.3
Games Per TFL:
1.3
1.1
Games Per Sack:
3.4
3.9
Games Per Interception:
4.0
9.0
Games Per Touchdown:
6.0
None
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Honestly I do see tons of physical potential in Rolondo McClain. He's very big and VERY strong. He also has good straight line speed.
On the other hand, Spikes is not quite as strong and not quite as big, though big and strong in his own right, and he has without question the better agility, motor and physicality.
Instincts and ability to read the ball and quarterback are up for debate. You know where I come out, I know where you come out.
The thing that gets me about this breakdown is, in the NFL...players get bigger and they get stronger. They don't necessarily get more agile and they don't necessarily get better motor, or more physical.
So while I agree that McClain is going to be pegged as the guy with more physical potential, I think that Spikes is the better player right now and with added strength, he could stay the better player.
And I also think that there isn't any question that while Spikes has the physicality and the comfort with blockers to play in the 3-4, Rolondo McClain is much better suited to a 4-3 Under like what Saban runs, which protects him better from blockers and funnels the ball to him, allowing him to use his size, strength, length and explosiveness to make a certain percentage of the "normal" plays turn into "big" plays.
On the other hand, Spikes is not quite as strong and not quite as big, though big and strong in his own right, and he has without question the better agility, motor and physicality.
Instincts and ability to read the ball and quarterback are up for debate. You know where I come out, I know where you come out.
The thing that gets me about this breakdown is, in the NFL...players get bigger and they get stronger. They don't necessarily get more agile and they don't necessarily get better motor, or more physical.
So while I agree that McClain is going to be pegged as the guy with more physical potential, I think that Spikes is the better player right now and with added strength, he could stay the better player.
And I also think that there isn't any question that while Spikes has the physicality and the comfort with blockers to play in the 3-4, Rolondo McClain is much better suited to a 4-3 Under like what Saban runs, which protects him better from blockers and funnels the ball to him, allowing him to use his size, strength, length and explosiveness to make a certain percentage of the "normal" plays turn into "big" plays.
Pachyderm_Wave
Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ
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Rather than go around in circles.....lets talk linebackers...
So exactly WHAT linebackers do you personally like inside for Miami other than Spikes?
Micah Johnson? Joe Pawelek? Sean Lee? Ryan D'Imperio? Josh Bynes? A.J. Edds? Alex Wujciak? Jared Norton? Roderick Muckelroy?
And what are your thoughts on K.J. Wright and Quan Sturdivant? Although Wright is most likely to stay in school IMO....I really like this kid....along with Josh Bynes...
So exactly WHAT linebackers do you personally like inside for Miami other than Spikes?
Micah Johnson? Joe Pawelek? Sean Lee? Ryan D'Imperio? Josh Bynes? A.J. Edds? Alex Wujciak? Jared Norton? Roderick Muckelroy?
And what are your thoughts on K.J. Wright and Quan Sturdivant? Although Wright is most likely to stay in school IMO....I really like this kid....along with Josh Bynes...
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Right at this moment, I like A.J. Edds a lot...but also Bruce Carter. There's actually another Carter that has my attention, Reggie Carter of UCLA.
Then there's Dexter Davis of Arizona State, a run stopping defensive end at only 6'2" and 255 lbs or so. I keep complaining about how McClain and Spikes don't use their hands at times, well as an undersized yet effective, high motor, run stopping defensive end...Dexter knows how to keep his hands up and keep himself balanced. Balance is a big key with him, sometimes you wonder how the guy is able to stay off the ground with some of the double teams he faces. Not a big pass rusher, so I don't know if he'd be good for SOLB or not...but he drops back into zone coverage very naturally and fluidly.
I like Sturdivant but not for this defense. A lot of the guys you name, I'm not sure I like for this defense. I think I'm the only guy that isn't particularly in love with Penn State's linebackers...but I suppose I've got at least four more games of their to evaluate before I can say that for sure.
Josh Bynes I feel like could be a flatter to deceive kind of player. He's at his best when his jersey is kept clean from blockers...and he's very limited in coverage.
Then there's Dexter Davis of Arizona State, a run stopping defensive end at only 6'2" and 255 lbs or so. I keep complaining about how McClain and Spikes don't use their hands at times, well as an undersized yet effective, high motor, run stopping defensive end...Dexter knows how to keep his hands up and keep himself balanced. Balance is a big key with him, sometimes you wonder how the guy is able to stay off the ground with some of the double teams he faces. Not a big pass rusher, so I don't know if he'd be good for SOLB or not...but he drops back into zone coverage very naturally and fluidly.
I like Sturdivant but not for this defense. A lot of the guys you name, I'm not sure I like for this defense. I think I'm the only guy that isn't particularly in love with Penn State's linebackers...but I suppose I've got at least four more games of their to evaluate before I can say that for sure.
Josh Bynes I feel like could be a flatter to deceive kind of player. He's at his best when his jersey is kept clean from blockers...and he's very limited in coverage.
hoops
Tua time!
hey ck, can we expect more of these cutups on other players??? like especially the ones you hear thru sources miami has interest in???
that essentially big play chart comparison surprises me as well but i still like mcclain more...more upside imo and i think he can be taught to use his hands more and use a more physical approach when engaging blockers by a good linebacker coach
a lot of those cutups of spikes in coverage were spikes basically playing at the los and reading the qbs eyes and jumping things...not much of him having to turn and run down the field with a te and handle backs down the field...
i think mcclain is much more sound in coverage both in technique and awareness but that's just me
that essentially big play chart comparison surprises me as well but i still like mcclain more...more upside imo and i think he can be taught to use his hands more and use a more physical approach when engaging blockers by a good linebacker coach
a lot of those cutups of spikes in coverage were spikes basically playing at the los and reading the qbs eyes and jumping things...not much of him having to turn and run down the field with a te and handle backs down the field...
i think mcclain is much more sound in coverage both in technique and awareness but that's just me
hoops
Tua time!
b/t i like bruce carter also...but is he a fit for the 3-4??? he looks like a 4-3 guy to me
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Yes, you can expect a whole slew of cutups....available on Universal Draft. You'll have to keep checking in with UD to see the player reviews and the accompanying videos.
Right now those aren't up because I was saving them for a big writeup Boomer was going to do on Spikes and McClain. I cut those videos as a visual aid for that writeup so I didn't want to roll out with them before Boomer was ready.
Right now I've cut video on the following players...
DT Terrence Cody
DT Marvin Austin
DT Cam Thomas (was thinking of you when I did him up)
DT Brian Price
DE Dexter Davis
DE Antonio Coleman
DE Brandon Lang
DE Cameron Sheffield
DE C.J. Wilson
DE Willie Young
DE Austen Lane
DE Carlos Dunlap
DE Jermaine Cunningham
LB Brandon Spikes
LB Rolondo McClain
LB Reggie Carter
CB Alterraun Verner
CB Kareem Jackson
CB Javier Arenas
CB Joe Haden
FS Ahmad Black
FS Taylor Mays
FS Josh Pinkard
SS Major Wright
SS Justin Woodall
OT Charles Brown
OG Mike Johnson
OG Mike Pouncey
OC Markice Pouncey
TE Dennis Pitta
TE Jimmy Graham
TE Colin Peek
TE Aaron Hernandez
TE Anthony McCoy
RB Ben Tate
WR Riley Cooper
WR Damian Williams
WR Brandon LaFell
WR Taylor Price
WR Jeremy Williams
WR Chris McGaha
This is still very much at its bare infant stage, though. I don't necessarily have finished videos for all of these guys.
Right now those aren't up because I was saving them for a big writeup Boomer was going to do on Spikes and McClain. I cut those videos as a visual aid for that writeup so I didn't want to roll out with them before Boomer was ready.
Right now I've cut video on the following players...
DT Terrence Cody
DT Marvin Austin
DT Cam Thomas (was thinking of you when I did him up)
DT Brian Price
DE Dexter Davis
DE Antonio Coleman
DE Brandon Lang
DE Cameron Sheffield
DE C.J. Wilson
DE Willie Young
DE Austen Lane
DE Carlos Dunlap
DE Jermaine Cunningham
LB Brandon Spikes
LB Rolondo McClain
LB Reggie Carter
CB Alterraun Verner
CB Kareem Jackson
CB Javier Arenas
CB Joe Haden
FS Ahmad Black
FS Taylor Mays
FS Josh Pinkard
SS Major Wright
SS Justin Woodall
OT Charles Brown
OG Mike Johnson
OG Mike Pouncey
OC Markice Pouncey
TE Dennis Pitta
TE Jimmy Graham
TE Colin Peek
TE Aaron Hernandez
TE Anthony McCoy
RB Ben Tate
WR Riley Cooper
WR Damian Williams
WR Brandon LaFell
WR Taylor Price
WR Jeremy Williams
WR Chris McGaha
This is still very much at its bare infant stage, though. I don't necessarily have finished videos for all of these guys.
hoops
Tua time!
what was your thoughts on antonio coleman and austen lane???