The only - ONLY - way you can justify Freeman as a better passer than Newton is via passing yards. In every other category - including, and especially, the eyeball test - Newton (the prospect) DESTROYS Freeman (the prospect).
mel kiper 1/19 mock draft mark ingram to miami
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The only - ONLY - way you can justify Freeman as a better passer than Newton is via passing yards. In every other category - including, and especially, the eyeball test - Newton (the prospect) DESTROYS Freeman (the prospect).
Heisman34
Practice Squad
Yes that is true but i think richardson is gonna be just as good probably better than ingram. They have a great system for there running backs. Yes tech has a good system as well but Williams is far better than Evans or any of there other backs and i think theres a reason for it. Just think we could get the same quality back alot later in the draft. Ingram just doesnt seem so much better to take as a first pick overall... IMO
uga3406
Pro Bowler
You may be right but in the end I still don't want no part of Newton. This guy is going to be another Vince Young clone bust. All he can do is run the ball. Freeman matured this year big time and looked great down the stretch. I rather have Henne running this team next year instead of Newton. That how little I think of Newton.
Pachyderm_Wave
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This post just doesn't make much sense. Alabama's offensive line had 2 new starters on it this season in the way of two freshmen (Chance Warmack and D.J. Fluker).
Most of the time it had as many as 4 new starters on it because of Fluker missing time with injury, and key games against Auburn, etc... where the line was missing it's best player in Barrett Jones who was replaced by another freshman, Anthony Steen.
Trent Richardson is the best RB prospect in the entire country, even as a sophomore. What he's able to do when on the field is in no way a knock on Ingram.
But since Ryan Williams couldn't stay healthy, it allowed everyone that paid attention to see that 2 other backs could be just as productive (or more) behind VT's offensive line as Ryan Williams could.
Darren Evans and David Wilson both out produced Ryan Williams this year in terms of yardage and yards per carry.
Ryan Williams is a good back, I think he's a good prospect. But he's not quite in Ingram's class.
He doesn't have the lower body strength or mass that Ingram has, or the ability to break tackles. You'll see the disparity between the two in this aspect the most when both are playing against NFL defenses.
jonanthans
LES f**g MILES
You must be an AU fan. Thats the only reasonable explanation of your logic.
Cam Newton had 280 passing attempts for his career, Freeman had over 1100. The main knock on Newton among scouts is his throwing. Josh Freemans throwing is what made him a first round grade. You're right, there is no comparison, Freeman as a prospect is head and shoulders above Newton as a prospect. Most scouts are estimating Cam will have to sit and learn for several years before he is ready as a passer. Josh Freeman was starting and winning games immediately. It's not even close..
Cam Newton may very well end up being a good NFL Qb, I'm not saying he won't be. But some of these comparisons are not only off base, they aren't even fair to Cam Newton. He is a running Qb, he had almost as many rushing attempts, 242, as he had passing attempts, 280. Everyone who thinks he is going to come into this league and right away tear it up passing is in for a huge letdown. He is a project.
jonanthans
LES f**g MILES
While I am not a fan of Williams, I do agree that there will be good backs still available in the later rounds. That being said, I don't think you pass on Ingram if he is the BPA when our pick rolls around, unless we choose to trade down and aquire more picks. This team needs talent in many areas, and if he is the best option available then take him and make that one less position we have to worry about.
Around draft time, people were saying that P. White was a better passer than Freeman - complaining about his mechanics and inaccuracy. Newton has the stronger more accurate arm with a better release. Neither came from NFL style offenses. Newton put up much better numbers in terms of QB efficiency. He averaged over 10 YPA and threw 30 TD's to 7 INT's against better competition. Freeman threw 20 TD's and 8 INT's. If you think - as prospects - Freeman can even sniff Newton, you're damn fool.
jonanthans
LES f**g MILES
Please post links showing these people who were saying Pat White was a better passer. You are really reaching now. Josh Freeman was a first round pick strictly because of his passing abilities. Here is the ESPN draft review of Josh Freeman:
Overview
Georgia's Matthew Stafford and Southern California's Mark Sanchez are getting most of the attention, but a team could turn out to be the ultimate winner with Freeman as its consolation prize on draft day.
There are teams that consider Freeman the finest all-around athlete available at the position. The junior has been a model of consistency and an outstanding leader who possesses a strong, accurate arm to go along with his unbelievable frame.
He never had the weapons that both Stafford and Sanchez had to work with but he made things happen with his strong arm and mobility. He also developed touch and has top physical skills. He might have the best opportunity of the three top-level quarterbacks to succeed at the next level.
Apparently, Josh Freeman was rated a lot higher than you remember him being. Notice the references about his strong arm, accuracy and touch. Either you don't recall him being as good as he was, or you choose to not remember. Funny how no mention about any mechanics or flaws....
Heres two reviews for Cam Newton:
“The BCS title game did bring to light some flaws and Cam Newton projecting into the NFL. The inaccuracy on the throw, the short throw -- this could have been a touchdown. The overthrow on the deep ball that could have put that game out of reach, the interception as well. Again red flags for Cam Newton in that game. Now he does have ideal size, a great arm, mobility all of that, but I think he is a developmental quarterback. If they need him to be the guy right away, don’t draft Cam Newton. If you have time to develop him, he could be the right man for the job two or three years down the road.
and
“Cam Newton will be the most polarizing player in the 2011 NFL Draft...Newton is a rare talent. With his size, athleticism and arm strength, Newton has more potential than any player in this year's draft. That alone will get him picked in the first round...But his negatives may scare some teams off completely. Newton will have to greatly refine all of his mechanical flaws if he wants to succeed in the pros.”
Funny, his mechanics are questioned, no touch, developmental Qb is how he is described.
Comparison over.
Funny: You're using ESPN as your source.
MisiDressing
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If we had a way to know that Newton was going to be as good as Josh Freeman is now, then I'd be in favor or trading up as high as it took to draft him. Since of course we don't know, I think we could sit tight at 15 but if Newton falls there, we should probably still gamble on him. Maybe he doesn't end up being as good as Freeman or Randall Cunningham but still.......even if he's "only" as good as Vince Young, that's not too bad. VY's talent is fine. It's him being a crying head case with a piss poor attitude that does him in. If Newton ends up being VY without the self destructive attitude, I could live with that.
Now if all 4 of the top QBs are gone, then I'm leaning to us taking Mark Ingram. I just think he's a lock to be the next great RB in the league - up there with AP and CJ2K. We'll still need a QB but we'd finally have an identity as a nasty running team. I'd say draft Ingram at 15 and then OL the rest of the way.
Now if all 4 of the top QBs are gone, then I'm leaning to us taking Mark Ingram. I just think he's a lock to be the next great RB in the league - up there with AP and CJ2K. We'll still need a QB but we'd finally have an identity as a nasty running team. I'd say draft Ingram at 15 and then OL the rest of the way.
jonanthans
LES f**g MILES
Funny, you have yet to provide any sources, just your personal speculation.
Tell you what, you pick two sources and we'll pull up what they had on Freeman and what they now have on Newton.
jonanthans
LES f**g MILES
DraftInsider.com
There are detractors out there, and they are quick to point out Newton’s problems, mainly a host of footwork issues and mechanical concerns in the pocket. He has a bad tendency of staring down one side of the field before he tucks it and runs, and the offensive philosophies of Florida, Blinn College, and Auburn all limit coverage reads in the passing game. He is fairly accurate out of the pocket, but he consistently shows bad balance and telegraphs too many of his intended passes.
Outside of his physical tools, it is hard to evaluate Newton without bringing up the names Tim Tebow and Vince Young; two mobile quarterbacks with similar collegiate success and cult followings and two players who left lasting impressions on the field in their final seasons. Each one of these prospects faced three daunting challenges in their final season that many professional scouts would equate to playing on Sunday’s in the NFL.
A. Munch
NFL Draft Prospect Report
Cam Newton, QB, Auburn, 6′6 250
Position Ranking: #4
Strengths: Has an amazing combination of height and athleticism for the position. Good arm strength and can make the deep out, and deep corner throw. A high release point in his upper body mechanics allows him to maintain good spin on his layered passing; throws a tight ball short, intermediate, and deep. Flashes good accuracy between the numbers on intermediate routes from the pocket. Can make accurate throws off balance and on the move. A dangerous threat to run, has great buildup speed and can glide when he breaks towards the sideline. Impressive balance in space when transitioning on the run for his 6′6 frame. Speed is deceptive and can be misjudged; one missed assignment and Newton goes the distance.
Needs Improvement: Pocket instincts are below adequate. Doesn’t feel the backside defender or show an awareness to the timing of the defensive rush. Lower body mechanics are very raw, won’t stride into most of his throws, keeps feet close together and whips his throws with his shoulder. Accuracy is off/on especially deep when throwing outside the numbers due to poor lower body mechanics. Wasn’t asked to go through coverage reads or a full progressions in a spread option offense at Auburn.
Needs to see an open receiver and has very little anticipation. Field vision is not wide angle despite size and doesn’t seem to see the entire field clearly. Will wait for his primary target to open up and rarely turns his head from left to right.
Most of his accurate throws were a result of wide open coverage windows and plenty of time in the pocket. Can be tackled by much smaller defenders as Newton is not a physical runner and seems to shy away from square contact in space. No more than a handful of snaps were taken from under center in his career and wasn’t asked to settle his feet, look over the coverage, and find an open receiver. Only started 13 games in the NCAA.
Bottom Line: There is no denying Cam Newton’s immense physical talents. He was the best player in college football this past season and has both the Heisman Trophy and a national championship to show for it. The concerns that teams will have leading up to the draft are obvious on some levels (spread option system, only one full year of experience) but other concerns will show up more clearly during progressive game study. The greatest concern about Newton isn’t the system, or even his character concerns, but his lack of instincts/awareness in the pocket and his pre-snap recognition or rather, his lack of pre-snap recognition. Newton was never asked to read coverage at Auburn, he simply ran the play. Since Newton wasn’t asked to make pre-snap adjustments or even post-snap adjustments in his zone read offense, it makes the mental transition less clear in evaluating him.
Without question Cam has the physical ability be successful and with NFL coaching he’ll be able to improve his lower body mechanics. But with only one full year of experience there is no telling how Newton would perform against teams with a season’s worth of film at their availability and maintain his success at the college level. Because of this I feel that Newton isn’t the prospect Vince Young or Tim Tebow were- two somewhat similar players- as they had a minimum of two full years of experience.
Overall, when evaluating quarterbacks, I’m less concerned with their athletic ability and more concerned with how well they understand coverage, pre and post-snap, as well as their ability to make intuitive and timely throws inside the pocket. These characteristics are not strengths that Newton currently possesses, so my ranking will likely be less high for him than many others. I grade him as a late second round, early third round pick but project him to go sooner.
Draft Projection: Mid 1st to early 2nd round.
I have yet to find someone who doesn't think Newton has mechanical concerns and lacks ability to read the defenses. Aside from an Auburn board, that is.
Cam Newtons analysis by most actually mirrors that of a recent #1 overall pick, JaMarcus Russell. As is their stats from their pre-draft season:
JaMarcus Russell 232 comp/342 att,/ 67.8 comp%, 9.15 ypa, 28 Tds, 8 int, 16 sacks, 167.03 rating
Cam Newton 185 comp/280 att, / 66.1 comp%, 10.19 ypa, 30 Tds, 7 int, 23 sacks, 182.00 rating
There are detractors out there, and they are quick to point out Newton’s problems, mainly a host of footwork issues and mechanical concerns in the pocket. He has a bad tendency of staring down one side of the field before he tucks it and runs, and the offensive philosophies of Florida, Blinn College, and Auburn all limit coverage reads in the passing game. He is fairly accurate out of the pocket, but he consistently shows bad balance and telegraphs too many of his intended passes.
Outside of his physical tools, it is hard to evaluate Newton without bringing up the names Tim Tebow and Vince Young; two mobile quarterbacks with similar collegiate success and cult followings and two players who left lasting impressions on the field in their final seasons. Each one of these prospects faced three daunting challenges in their final season that many professional scouts would equate to playing on Sunday’s in the NFL.
A. Munch
NFL Draft Prospect Report
Cam Newton, QB, Auburn, 6′6 250
Position Ranking: #4
Strengths: Has an amazing combination of height and athleticism for the position. Good arm strength and can make the deep out, and deep corner throw. A high release point in his upper body mechanics allows him to maintain good spin on his layered passing; throws a tight ball short, intermediate, and deep. Flashes good accuracy between the numbers on intermediate routes from the pocket. Can make accurate throws off balance and on the move. A dangerous threat to run, has great buildup speed and can glide when he breaks towards the sideline. Impressive balance in space when transitioning on the run for his 6′6 frame. Speed is deceptive and can be misjudged; one missed assignment and Newton goes the distance.
Needs Improvement: Pocket instincts are below adequate. Doesn’t feel the backside defender or show an awareness to the timing of the defensive rush. Lower body mechanics are very raw, won’t stride into most of his throws, keeps feet close together and whips his throws with his shoulder. Accuracy is off/on especially deep when throwing outside the numbers due to poor lower body mechanics. Wasn’t asked to go through coverage reads or a full progressions in a spread option offense at Auburn.
Needs to see an open receiver and has very little anticipation. Field vision is not wide angle despite size and doesn’t seem to see the entire field clearly. Will wait for his primary target to open up and rarely turns his head from left to right.
Most of his accurate throws were a result of wide open coverage windows and plenty of time in the pocket. Can be tackled by much smaller defenders as Newton is not a physical runner and seems to shy away from square contact in space. No more than a handful of snaps were taken from under center in his career and wasn’t asked to settle his feet, look over the coverage, and find an open receiver. Only started 13 games in the NCAA.
Bottom Line: There is no denying Cam Newton’s immense physical talents. He was the best player in college football this past season and has both the Heisman Trophy and a national championship to show for it. The concerns that teams will have leading up to the draft are obvious on some levels (spread option system, only one full year of experience) but other concerns will show up more clearly during progressive game study. The greatest concern about Newton isn’t the system, or even his character concerns, but his lack of instincts/awareness in the pocket and his pre-snap recognition or rather, his lack of pre-snap recognition. Newton was never asked to read coverage at Auburn, he simply ran the play. Since Newton wasn’t asked to make pre-snap adjustments or even post-snap adjustments in his zone read offense, it makes the mental transition less clear in evaluating him.
Without question Cam has the physical ability be successful and with NFL coaching he’ll be able to improve his lower body mechanics. But with only one full year of experience there is no telling how Newton would perform against teams with a season’s worth of film at their availability and maintain his success at the college level. Because of this I feel that Newton isn’t the prospect Vince Young or Tim Tebow were- two somewhat similar players- as they had a minimum of two full years of experience.
Overall, when evaluating quarterbacks, I’m less concerned with their athletic ability and more concerned with how well they understand coverage, pre and post-snap, as well as their ability to make intuitive and timely throws inside the pocket. These characteristics are not strengths that Newton currently possesses, so my ranking will likely be less high for him than many others. I grade him as a late second round, early third round pick but project him to go sooner.
Draft Projection: Mid 1st to early 2nd round.
I have yet to find someone who doesn't think Newton has mechanical concerns and lacks ability to read the defenses. Aside from an Auburn board, that is.
Cam Newtons analysis by most actually mirrors that of a recent #1 overall pick, JaMarcus Russell. As is their stats from their pre-draft season:
JaMarcus Russell 232 comp/342 att,/ 67.8 comp%, 9.15 ypa, 28 Tds, 8 int, 16 sacks, 167.03 rating
Cam Newton 185 comp/280 att, / 66.1 comp%, 10.19 ypa, 30 Tds, 7 int, 23 sacks, 182.00 rating
Heisman34
Practice Squad
I dont know how my post doesnt make sense. Your talking about what Alabama's team had this yr. not when Ingram won the hiesman. So you proved my point about Ingram. When he had a stout line he was a monster yes but look at this last yr. He was no where near what he was the yr before and thats why Richardson got so many more caries this yr.
As for your comment about him being hurt and showing that the other two backs could be just as productive doesnt make sense. He nearly put up the same #'s as the other two backs in which yes he was injured and played 3-4 games less then the other two backs.
All im saying is that i believe this draft class for running backs isnt very strong and that miami could move back in the draft to get a 2nd round pick and draft a guy like williams who in my opinion is just as good as Ingram. He might not have won a national title or a heisman trophy but not many great running backs in the NFL have.
Oh and im guessing you dont watch VT play otherwise you would know that williams breaks tons of tackles and what he lacks in size he makes up for in speed which ingram wont match... Exaple Peterson, Foster niether have the mass like ingram and they seem to do pretty well id say
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It's not even close.
If you don't want a RB..don't draft one.
If you want one..get the best one.
Just don't act like Williams will get you near the production Mark will.
You can find tons of misinformed opinions all over the internet and TV, but I'll play the game a little.
In regard to Josh Freeman:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1123282
In regard to Newton:
http://nflsoup.com/?p=5878
http://packerchatters.com/?p=21310
Most of the sites I'm coming across address Newton's biggest concerns as such:
Off-field issues and concerns about his ability to pick up an NFL offense (which is true about EVERY QB out of a Spread - particularly that type of Spread Option - ever. There were even people saying Clausen was more NFL ready than Bradford because of the offense Bradford came from).
Obviously he'll have to work on his footwork. But if you take away his running ability and focus only on his ability to make throws, he's still a great prospect. His arm is strong, his release is very nice, and he has very good accuracy.
Coming out of college, Freeman was nowhere near the passer that Newton is. Freeman's current throwing motion/mechanics are currently not as good as Newton's. For Newton, it's ALL mental. That's the only question about him as a prospect. If I like the way he approaches the game, and NFL people have ways of finding this stuff out (obviously), I'd do everything in my power to make him my QB, because current NFL coaches have made strides in teaching the QB position. More than ever young QB's are having early success. If the QB has the intelligence and dedication to learn the position, most NFL teams have QB coaches that can teach the position. Look at what our current OC did with McCoy. I see Newton as an intelligent kid who shows determination and great leadership on the field. If you do a draft grade search on Freeman, a lot of people had him as a 2nd or 3rd RD QB. NO ONE has Newton falling out of the 1st - no matter how much they knock him with incorrect information.
In regard to Josh Freeman:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1123282
In regard to Newton:
http://nflsoup.com/?p=5878
http://packerchatters.com/?p=21310
Most of the sites I'm coming across address Newton's biggest concerns as such:
Off-field issues and concerns about his ability to pick up an NFL offense (which is true about EVERY QB out of a Spread - particularly that type of Spread Option - ever. There were even people saying Clausen was more NFL ready than Bradford because of the offense Bradford came from).
Obviously he'll have to work on his footwork. But if you take away his running ability and focus only on his ability to make throws, he's still a great prospect. His arm is strong, his release is very nice, and he has very good accuracy.
Coming out of college, Freeman was nowhere near the passer that Newton is. Freeman's current throwing motion/mechanics are currently not as good as Newton's. For Newton, it's ALL mental. That's the only question about him as a prospect. If I like the way he approaches the game, and NFL people have ways of finding this stuff out (obviously), I'd do everything in my power to make him my QB, because current NFL coaches have made strides in teaching the QB position. More than ever young QB's are having early success. If the QB has the intelligence and dedication to learn the position, most NFL teams have QB coaches that can teach the position. Look at what our current OC did with McCoy. I see Newton as an intelligent kid who shows determination and great leadership on the field. If you do a draft grade search on Freeman, a lot of people had him as a 2nd or 3rd RD QB. NO ONE has Newton falling out of the 1st - no matter how much they knock him with incorrect information.