Merged:Who wins the AFC East?

[The New Guy]

I don't know. If we got the pre-title game Kordell then i think Pitt could have won it but does Kordell make the big tackle that ben did on the fumble recovery vs. Indy? I think they could have won w/ Kordell, Pitt did face choking QBs in the AFC playoffs and ben was brutal in the SB so Kordell could have been brutal too

I don’t know either, but going on Kordell’s play in the last two title games he was a part of, my guess is still no. Roethlisburger played really bad in the Super Bowl, but played very well in the three playoff games before that. In the three games combined he threw 7 TD’s and only 1 INT. My guess is Kordell would not have been able to play that well. I think Kordell probably could have started in the Super Bowl and the Steelers still would have won, but I don’t think he could have got them there. His 97 playoff #’s were 3 Ints one fumble and one TD. His 2001 #’s were not any better. He threw 2 TD’s, 4 ints, and had one fumble.

He started the game for det in '99 and Denver in '00:

My mistake. I did not remember that he played in a playoff game with Denver. He has indeed started two playoff games. However, he did not lead those teams to the playoffs as the starter. He did help the Broncos make the playoffs, but he did not help the Lions make the playoffs (only winning two of his 6 starts) He is also 0-2 as the starter in those playoff games.

So that makes his lifetime record as a full time starter as 32-31 which is 1 game OVER .500 while Daunte's lifetime record is 4 games UNDER .500. Give me a guy who wins any day over a guy who puts up reat #s and doesn't win.

Well, not really. Frerotte only started all 16 games in one season. (1996) the other seasons he started most of the games, but not all of them. The backups QB’s came in and won a few games in place of Frerotte. So in the games Frerotte has started he is:

3-8 in 1995
9-7 in 1996 (started all 16 games)
6-6-1 in 1997
8-7 in 2005 (I do not give Frerotte credit for the win against Buffalo)

So Frerotte is really 26-28-1 as a full time starter in 12 seasons. Cullpepper is really only three games under .500 (as I don’t think he deserve credit for the loss last season @ Car, only attempting 4 passes and completing three of them) and has only played in 6 seasons. I am very confident that in Culpepper’s 12th season, he will have a winning record as a starter.

They are close in terms of records as a starting QB, but both have played on really bad teams. You have to ask yourself, is the QB doing his job? Culpepper’s career numbers shows that he is.

You say you want a guy who wins, but Frerotte is 0-2 as a starter in the playoffs, while Culpepper is 2-2. I know you don’t like Duante, but even you have to admit, (if healthy) Culpepper is much better than Frerotte.

as bad as the AFC East was it was still better than the NFC North. The Jets and Bills were tougher than GB and Det and obviously NE and Mia were better than Chi and Minny.

Both the 2004 Vikings, and 2005 Dolphins played some good teams.

The 2004 Vikings played:

13-3 Eagles
12-4 Colts
10-6 Packers
9-7 Seahawks


The 2005 Dolphins played:

13-3 Broncos
11-5 Panthers
11-5 Bucs
10-6 Chiefs
10-6 Pats


I agree that the AFC East was better, but I don’t think it was much better.

The 1st time in my life I ever rooted for an NFC team was in '02(Jan '03) when Oak played TB. We just lost to oak and they talked alot of trash so I couldn't root for them. The next and only other time was the Pats-Philly SB. I rooted for the pats in '85, '96, '01 and '03 but i couldn't again.

Yeah, I am usually an AFC guy as well, but it really depends on the circumstances. I was rooting for the Falcons against the Broncos because Elway had already won a Super Bowl, and the Broncos blew us out of the playoffs. One Super Bowl win for the Pats was enough for me, so from now on, I will root for any NFC team that is playing them in the Super Bowl.

 

[nyjunc]

Both the 2004 Vikings, and 2005 Dolphins played some good teams.

I was comparing last year's AFC east to last year's NFC North. if you compare last year's AFC East to '04 NFC North it's still the AFC east and if you compare the '04 divs it's a blowout for the AFC east. Also the '04 Vikes lost to all 4 of those teams you mentioned while at least Miami beat Den and Car(I can't count the Pats win since NE treated it like an exhibition game).

 

[burger13]

(I can't count the Pats win since NE treated it like an exhibition game).

Good thing you don't do the books for the NFL.

I remeber at the end of the '04 season the Bills would have made the playoffs AND elimated the Jets if they could have won a game which the Steelers "treated like an exhibition game".

A win is a win.

 

[nyjunc]

Good thing you don't do the books for the NFL.

I remeber at the end of the '04 season the Bills would have made the playoffs AND elimated the Jets if they could have won a game which the Steelers "treated like an exhibition game".

A win is a win.

MIGHT have eliminated the Jets. The Jets went to OT in SL and knew Buf had lost and b/c of that they tried a long FG attempt instead of punting. there was only a few mins left and if Buf won we needed to tie or win and letting Brien kick a 53-54 yd FG wouldn't have ben the option. They would have punted and tried to pin SL deep.

 

[burger13]

MIGHT have eliminated the Jets. The Jets went to OT in SL and knew Buf had lost and b/c of that they tried a long FG attempt instead of punting. there was only a few mins left and if Buf won we needed to tie or win and letting Brien kick a 53-54 yd FG wouldn't have ben the option. They would have punted and tried to pin SL deep.

Wow.....lot of could've, would've should've there, but I think my point is made. Even games where the other team pulls their starters aren't gimmies.....you still have to go out and win the game.

 

[nyjunc]

Wow.....lot of could've, would've should've there, but I think my point is made. Even games where the other team pulls their starters aren't gimmies.....you still have to go out and win the game.

No doubt about it but I think things may have worked out differently if they found out Buf won but lucikly they lost so we'll never find out.

I agree w/ the rest of your point but Belichick was jumping for joy when flutie made a drop kick. that man hates to lsoe more than anyone, he's not happy when they win. Pitt was still playing the game hard, NE treated it like a joke.

 

[burger13]

No doubt about it but I think things may have worked out differently if they found out Buf won but lucikly they lost so we'll never find out.

I agree w/ the rest of your point but Belichick was jumping for joy when flutie made a drop kick. that man hates to lsoe more than anyone, he's not happy when they win. Pitt was still playing the game hard, NE treated it like a joke.

Belichick did get uncharacteristicly caught up in the Flutie thing.........but it was something unique, and the sendoff to an all-time football great (even if I don't consider him an all-time NFL great). He could afford to enjoy the moment as the outcome wasn't important to his team....same as it wasn't for Pitts.

But the players on the field were playing hard AND the coaches were doing their jobs..........same as was the case in Pittsburgh.

 

[The New Guy]

I was comparing last year's AFC east to last year's NFC North. if you compare last year's AFC East to '04 NFC North it's still the AFC east and if you compare the '04 divs it's a blowout for the AFC east. Also the '04 Vikes lost to all 4 of those teams you mentioned while at least Miami beat Den and Car(I can't count the Pats win since NE treated it like an exhibition game)

I thought you were comparing Culpepper’s 2004 team to Frerotte’s 2005 team when you said

Frerotte will never put up great #s but he's made the playoffs as much as Daunte has and he led Miami to 9 wins in a better conf last year while daunte put up those "great" #s in '04 and led Minny to 8-8.

I agree that the 2005 AFC East was better than the 2004 NFC North, but I don’t think they were that far apart.

Also the '04 Vikes lost to all 4 of those teams you mentioned while at least Miami beat Den and Car(I can't count the Pats win since NE treated it like an exhibition game)

True, the Vikings did lose to the teams I mentioned, but I don’t see your point. I was just pointing out that both the 2004 Vikings and the 2005 Dolphins played some good teams. I was not saying that the 04 Vikes were better than the 05 Dolphins. They seemed to be just the opposite. While the Vikes lost to those good teams, the Dolphins beat good teams, and lost to some teams that they should have beat. (Jets, Bills, Browns, Falcons)

 

[Shula Come Back!]

There's no way to know that. if you win that game maybe you lose the Bills game or Jets game or SD game? There's no way to know if that game changes everything late in the year.



I understand, but you said that Miami was NEVER a threat to NE, if they won that game which they almost did, they would've been in first (or at least tied with a win over them) right at that moment. Anything that happens after that would be purely speculation, but as it turned out, Miami did win their last six games so they could've been playing for the division in December.

 

[Gabriel]

You say you want a guy who wins, but Frerotte is 0-2 as a starter in the playoffs, while Culpepper is 2-2. I know you don’t like Duante, but even you have to admit, (if healthy) Culpepper is much better than Frerotte.

Anyone who thinks Frerotte is better than Culpepper needs to be banned.