Merged:Who wins the AFC East?

[Kinzua]

Anyway back on topic, the east is a LOCK and if everyone stays healthy I cant see us losing more than 3 games...13 and 3!!!
ALL PHINS.
DOLPHINS-GIANTS "Superbowl"

It's not going to happen. The Fins will be lucky to split their division games (that's 3 losses) plus they'll lose to Pitt on opening day. That's four right there.

 

[The New Guy]

Yes, he was the full time starter from at least 1999 through 2001. There was a QB controversy only because RJ wasn't up to snuff. He had every opportunity to prove himself, and he failed to do so, even after Flutie was banished to San Diego.

Buffalo made the playoffs in '99 only because of a tough D and Flutie heroics.

PS. I know that Flutie was from the Boston area, and he played in Canada. He was an Argo, and won multiple Grey Cups there. The late John Butler gave him his chance in the NFL, one of his best moves as GM. If only he hadn't given a first and fourth rounder for ol' RJ ... :boohoo:

He may have been slated as the starter, but he never started that many games. In 1999 Rob Johnson started 1 game for the Bills. He got most of his starts the following year, starting 11 games. He only started 8 games in 2001 before heading to Tampa. My point is; you can not compare Rob to Harrington, because Rob had many chances on different teams to prove he could be a full time starter, and because of injuries, and his unwillingness to throw the ball away, never could do it. Harrington has only played for Detroit where no QB has been successful, and has started 55 out of 58 possible games. If Harrington fails in Miami, then goes to another team and fails there too, then you can compare him to Rob.

 

[JetsFanInSec124]

1. New England - 11-5
2. Miami - 9-7
3. NY Jets - 7-9
4. Buffalo - 3-13

 

[BwanaZulia]

I wonder who the other guy is? :D

Marino1983?

:)

BZ

 

[Deep2Evans]

New England will win the division.

 

[The New Guy]

Marino1983?

:)

BZ

Good one.

I pretty sure it was not Nyjunc since we all know he voted for the Dolphins.:D

Speaking of Nyjunc, if you are reading this, I would still like your opinion on post #44. Specifically about the improvements (or downgrades) of the Dolphins.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

It's not going to happen. The Fins will be lucky to split their division games (that's 3 losses) plus they'll lose to Pitt on opening day. That's four right there.

Kinzua, don't kid yourself. If you think the Fins will go 3-3 in the AFC Least, then you are absolutely out of your mind. We aren't going to lose to the crappy Jills or the joke Jets. We will at worst split with New England, so at worst, we will be 5-1 in the East. No doubt about that!

1. New England - 11-5
2. Miami - 9-7
3. NY Jets - 7-9
4. Buffalo - 3-13

Dude, I hope you aren't serious. You cannot be that big of a homer. First of all the Dolphins are MUCH BETTER than last year's 9-7 team, so they will defintly improve.

Secondly, do you honestly believe the Jets can win 7 games? Come on. Who are you going to beat? Do you even know who your QB is? What running back is going to surpass 800 yards? You guys will be lucky to win 5. Give Buffalo a little bit more credit, you guys will duke it out for 3rd.

New England will win the division.

What is this based on? Don't just write something with absolutely no agrument or opinion.

 

[Deep2Evans]

What is this based on? Don't just write something with absolutely no agrument or opinion.

I can write down anything I want with or without an argument.


They'll win the division because they are easily the best TEAM in the AFCE, might not be the team with the best players, but they have the best TEAM and thats whats important and what has worked for them, obviously.

 

[nyjunc]

NE did not have the division locked up with a month to go. At the mid way point in the season, the Dolphins were just one game behind the Pats for the division lead going into there head to head match up.

Game 9 is not a month to go in the seasona nd NE was just getting halthy and beginning to play well. Injuris kept them clsoe to the pack before they pulled away. When you guys were 3-7 after 10 they were 6-4 so they had a 3 game lead w/ 6 to play- that's alot to overcome and you guys were never closer than 2 games in the last month until after you "beat them" in week 17 when they treated the game like an exhibition game and still nearly beat you.

It was a close game that the Dolphins almost won. We had a first and goal on the 5 yard line with under two minutes left in the game, and we threw a few fades into the sunny side of the end zone. That was one game where I was not happy with Linehan's play calling. Anyway, losing that game was a two game slide. Instead of tying for the division lead, we fell two games back.

That's the breaks. In '04 we lost a close one at NE in week 7 but instead of taking a 1 game lead we were now a game back. We still had 9 games to overcome and you had 7 but neither one of us could. Of course NE was alot better in '04 but you get the point.

That was a turning point in the season. We still kept it close though being only 2 games back with three games to go. NE did not have it locked up until week 14 when they beat Tampa Bay. After that the best we could do is tie, but NE would have won the tie breaker due to their better division record. So, NE did not have it locked up until there were only 2 games left in the season.

That's what happens w/ young tams building. They are close a game or 2 here or there and can look back in frustration but as frustarting as it was losing that one you won a bunch of really cloe games down the stretcha nd any of those could have gone the other way.

2 games is a BIG margin and like I write above you were never closer than 2 games in the last month therefore you never really had a chance.

If you do not feel the Dolphins have improved their personnel, could you tell me which players you feel are not improvements? I already know how you feel about Culpepper so I won’t make you elucidate about him, but what about the others? ( L.J. Shelton, Fred Beasley, Will Allen, Dom Capers, Mike Mularkey, Ect……)

LJ Shelton is mediocrity, whhy di the Browns throw huge money around to improve their OL when they alreayd had Shelton for much cheaper? Same deal w/ Will Allen. The giants took your older, declining player for alot more money that it would have cost to keep Will and I have watched him enough to know he is mediocre at best. I love the beasley move, a very underrated position and a very underrated player- he'll help Ronnie alot. We know Capers is a bad HC but he's a good DC. The problem is Saban is better and now Saban isn't running the D. Mularkey is NOT a good OC, Pitt always struggled on O under him in big games so i guess he's perfect for Daunte:D I like the jason Allen pick but you can't expect him to step right in and act like a 6 year vet(it could happen its just not reasable to expect that).

I see your point, but actaully we did have a chance to take first place when we played in Miami and lost 23-16 at the five yard line with about a minute left...If we had won that game, the last game of the season would've had a lot more importance!

There's no way to know that. if you win that game maybe you lose the Bills game or Jets game or SD game? There's no way to know if that game changes everything late in the year.

Speaking of Nyjunc, if you are reading this, I would still like your opinion on post #44. Specifically about the improvements (or downgrades) of the Dolphins.

Sorry i didn't reply earlier. I kind of lost this thread.

Kinzua, don't kid yourself. If you think the Fins will go 3-3 in the AFC Least, then you are absolutely out of your mind. We aren't going to lose to the crappy Jills or the joke Jets. We will at worst split with New England, so at worst, we will be 5-1 in the East. No doubt about that!

You lost to both the Bills and jets last year and were very close to being swept by both. To assume you will sweep both now is being very optimistic.

 

[The New Guy]

Game 9 is not a month to go in the seasona nd NE was just getting halthy and beginning to play well.

I know game 9 is not a month to go in the season, that is why I said “At the mid way point in the season”. Be it because of NE injuries or bad play, we were just one game behind for the division lead in week 9.

When you guys were 3-7 after 10 they were 6-4 so they had a 3 game lead w/ 6 to play- that's alot to overcome and you guys were never closer than 2 games in the last month until after you "beat them" in week 17 when they treated the game like an exhibition game and still nearly beat you.

Yes, but if you go to the following week, we were only 2 games back with 5 games to go. A 2 game lead with 5 to go is still tough to overcome, but NE had to play the Buccaneers, Bills, and the Jets twice before playing us. Of course they won the games they had to and knocked us out of the playoffs. Maybe if we had a little help from the Jets that year, things would have been different.:D My point is, we played the games on our schedule, and won the last 6. NE did not have it locked up until week 14. I know it may have been unlikely, but it was not mathematically impossible for us to make the playoffs until NE won in week 14. So, it was a little less than a month.

LJ Shelton is mediocrity, whhy di the Browns throw huge money around to improve their OL when they alreayd had Shelton for much cheaper? Same deal w/ Will Allen. The giants took your older, declining player for alot more money that it would have cost to keep Will and I have watched him enough to know he is mediocre at best.

I think LJ will play much better under Houck, but when you keep the starting 5 of your O-line, and sign a guy like Shelton (even if he is mediocre), don’t you have to say that is an upgrade in personnel? (even if he ends up being an improvement in depth)

As for Will Allen, I know he in an upgrade over Madison. People always bring up the fact that the Giants payed more for Madison, so he must be better. NFL teams make dumb moves all the time. Madison was one of the best corners in the league, but he is no longer what he once was. He has clearly lost a few steps.

Allen has a pretty solid body of work to show for his time in NY. Allen has been playing in a division that has some pretty good receivers in the likes of Owens, Moss, Fitzgerald, and Boldin. Depite that, in the last 4 years his stats are better than Madison’s. Allen has all the tools to be an outstanding cover corner. He is younger, faster, and is a better tackler than Madison. I think Saban can coach him up to play at a high level in Miami. I am pretty sure that you will see Allen have a better season in Miami than Madison will in NY.

Mularkey is NOT a good OC, Pitt always struggled on O under him in big games so i guess he's perfect for Daunte

How much blame can you put on Mularkey when he had Kordell Stewart as the QB for those big games? He was the guy who took Kordell and actually made him look like a QB. I think he will be a good fit. He may not be better than Linehan, but I think he is close. I really liked Linehan, but his play calling was questionable at times.

Sorry i didn't reply earlier. I kind of lost this thread.

No Problem! That is the first sign of old age though. You start to lose things.

 

[nyjunc]

I know game 9 is not a month to go in the season, that is why I said “At the mid way point in the seasonâ€Â. Be it because of NE injuries or bad play, we were just one game behind for the division lead in week 9.

we were only 2 games out of 1st place going into that weekend.

Maybe if we had a little help from the Jets that year, things would have been different.

We blew that game at miami in Dec, that ws help enough:D

My point is, we played the games on our schedule, and won the last 6. NE did not have it locked up until week 14. I know it may have been unlikely, but it was not mathematically impossible for us to make the playoffs until NE won in week 14. So, it was a little less than a month.

It wasn't official but you were never w/in 2 games of NE until after week 17.

I think LJ will play much better under Houck, but when you keep the starting 5 of your O-line, and sign a guy like Shelton (even if he is mediocre), don’t you have to say that is an upgrade in personnel? (even if he ends up being an improvement in depth)

obviously Houck is great but I don't think you did enough to address your Ol which was better last year but still not good enough.

As for Will Allen, I know he in an upgrade over Madison. People always bring up the fact that the Giants payed more for Madison, so he must be better. NFL teams make dumb moves all the time. Madison was one of the best corners in the league, but he is no longer what he once was. He has clearly lost a few steps.

Madison hasn't been a big time player for years and his play has been steadily declining for years. I would have kept Allen simply b/c of age but when a team desperate for CB help decides to let go of a young player for an old, declining player that's not a good sign for the young player. I have watched him alot and he is mediocre at best. Guys can turn around their careers and so maybe he flourishes in Miami but if you get the same guy from Ny then it was a mistake.

Allen has a pretty solid body of work to show for his time in NY. Allen has been playing in a division that has some pretty good receivers in the likes of Owens, Moss, Fitzgerald, and Boldin.

Owens basically played a year in the NFC East after getting hurt late in '04 and being suspended early in '05 and the Giants only faced Owens twice. Moss just went to the div last year and has only faced the Giants twice, Fitz and Boldin were never in the NFC east w/ Allen as the Cards left after the '01 season. For the most part the NFC East O's have been pretty bad during Allen's time in NY.

How much blame can you put on Mularkey when he had Kordell Stewart as the QB for those big games?

They had a great O all year then couldn't do a thing in the title game at home. He had a top 5 ranking in '02 and again struggled at Tennessee in the div rd. He leaves and the O doesn't put #s as good but they go 15-1(then lose to a dynasty team in the middle of their dynasty- the '04 Pats were MUCH better than the '01 Pats) then win a Sb the following year.

No Problem! That is the first sign of old age though. You start to lose things.

I am getting old. I'm so old I can remember the dolphins last SB appearance Fortuinately and unfortunately I am not nearly old enough to remember our only SB (fortunately b/c then I'd be in my mid 40s but unfortunately b/c I'd like to see have seen it).

 

[The New Guy]

We blew that game at miami in Dec, that ws help enough

That did help a little, but I was hoping for some help in the form of actually winning against another team.:D

obviously Houck is great but I don't think you did enough to address your Ol which was better last year but still not good enough.

To start the 2005 season, I never though Houck could make the guys we had on our O-line play as well as they did. The Dolphins kept the same starting 5 and added LJ, and a couple of other guys. I think that with those additions, and another year under Houck, our O-line will be improved.

Madison hasn't been a big time player for years and his play has been steadily declining for years. I would have kept Allen simply b/c of age but when a team desperate for CB help decides to let go of a young player for an old, declining player that's not a good sign for the young player. I have watched him alot and he is mediocre at best. Guys can turn around their careers and so maybe he flourishes in Miami but if you get the same guy from Ny then it was a mistake.

If Allen is mediocre, what is your opinion on Madison at this point in his career? To me, Madison is at best mediocre, and will only get worse as he gets older. Allen on the other hand is young, and will most likely get better. So, even if Allen does not do any better in Miami, I think it is still a good move because right now he is just as good as Madison, and has the potential to get better. Madison is just going to get worse.

Fitz and Boldin were never in the NFC east w/ Allen as the Cards left after the '01 season. For the most part the NFC East O's have been pretty bad during Allen's time in NY

:foundout:

Boy do I feel dumb. I knew that, but I guess it will take me some more time to get used to the Cardinals being in the NFC West. Moss did just get traded to the Redskins, but they did have Coles before that. Even though the Vikings and Rams were not in the same division, the Giants faced the Vikings once a year for the last four seasons, and have faced the Rams 3 times out of 4. My point is, Allen has faced some pretty good receivers in his time with the Giants, and in the last 4 years has better stats than Madison.

They had a great O all year then couldn't do a thing in the title game at home. He had a top 5 ranking in '02 and again struggled at Tennessee in the div rd. He leaves and the O doesn't put #s as good but they go 15-1(then lose to a dynasty team in the middle of their dynasty- the '04 Pats were MUCH better than the '01 Pats) then win a Sb the following year.

Couldn’t do a thing :confused: He had Kordell in 01 and they still almost beat the Pats. Kordell cost the Steelers the game throwing two costly picks in the last three minutes, when it was only a 7 point difference. They only put up 17 points, but remember NE had the 6th ranked defense.

In 02 the Steelers put up 31 points on the Titans who had a Defense that was ranked #11 They almost won that game too. In OT Nedney missed the game winning kick but got to retry because of a questionable running into the kicker penalty. As for winning the Super Bowl after he left, don't you think Roethlisberger had somthing to do with that? The bottom line is when he was the OC, the Steelers had Tommy Maddox, and Kordell Stewart, and still the offenses were pretty good. Like I said before, he may not be better than Linehan, but I think he is very close.



Even if you don’t feel Malakey and Capers are upgrades, do you still think that the Dolphins have not improved personnel wise?

Do you really believe Frerotte is better than Culpepper? Do you feel that at this point in his career, Madison is better than Allen? You have to say that LJ is at least an upgrade to the depth if nothing else. Can you honestly say that the Dolphins have not improved personnel wise?

I am getting old. I'm so old I can remember the dolphins last SB appearance Fortuinately and unfortunately I am not nearly old enough to remember our only SB (fortunately b/c then I'd be in my mid 40s but unfortunately b/c I'd like to see have seen it).

Fortunately, I am not old enough to remember the Dolphins last Super Bowl appearance. There is no unfortunately about that, as I do not think I would have wanted to watch that game live.

 

[nyjunc]

If Allen is mediocre, what is your opinion on Madison at this point in his career? To me, Madison is at best mediocre, and will only get worse as he gets older. Allen on the other hand is young, and will most likely get better. So, even if Allen does not do any better in Miami, I think it is still a good move because right now he is just as good as Madison, and has the potential to get better. Madison is just going to get worse.

I thought madison has been declining for years and really hasn't lived up to the reputation he earned earlier in his career. The move itslef was not bad, at worst you get a guy as good as Sam now and he's alot younger but alot of the dolphin fans are acting like Allen is Darrell Green.

Boy do I feel dumb. I knew that, but I guess it will take me some more time to get used to the Cardinals being in the NFC West.

I still forget that now and then, the old divisions were around for so long it's still a habit to think of AZ in the East.

Moss did just get traded to the Redskins, but they did have Coles before that.

true but the NFC east did not have alot of good playmaking WRs in Allen's day's w/ the Giants.

-The Skins had Coles for 2 years, Moss for 1
-The Eagles had TO for basically a year
-Dal had Galloway last year
-I think david Boston was in AZ in Allen's rookie year when AZ was still in the East

That's not alot of top flight WRs and it's not like each team had those players every year.

Even though the Vikings and Rams were not in the same division, the Giants faced the Vikings once a year for the last four seasons, and have faced the Rams 3 times out of 4. My point is, Allen has faced some pretty good receivers in his time with the Giants, and in the last 4 years has better stats than Madison.

Every corner is going to face good receivers now and then. I know IMNts are not everything but Allen in 5 years has had more than 2 INts twice while Sam in 9 years has been under 2 only twice and in '98 sam had 8 INTs which is the career total of Allen. Allen has more passes defended b/c QBs throw more his way than Sam. Oh and Sam has faced much better WRs- guys like Keyshaw(when he was a top WR), Coles, Moss, Moulds, Andre Reed, Chrebet, Troy Brown, Terry Glenn, Peerless price(when he was good), etc...

Couldn’t do a thing He had Kordell in 01 and they still almost beat the Pats. Kordell cost the Steelers the game throwing two costly picks in the last three minutes, when it was only a 7 point difference. They only put up 17 points, but remember NE had the 6th ranked defense.

Kordell got them to the title game and he led Pitt to 27 pts against Bal's D the week before. I wouldn't say Kordell cost them the game when the Pats had a PR TD and a blocked FG TD and only lost by 7.

As for winning the Super Bowl after he left, don't you think Roethlisberger had somthing to do with that?

Sure but Whisenhunt has done a great job w/ him. Ben doesn't carry that team, he doesn't allow him to try to do too much. I'm not a Mularkey guy, I didn't like him in Pitt and he was terrible as a HC.

The bottom line is when he was the OC, the Steelers had Tommy Maddox, and Kordell Stewart, and still the offenses were pretty good.

he caught ligthning in a bottle w/ both of those guys. Remember Stewart also made an AFC Title Game as a starter in 1997 and Tommy maddox was the XFL's lone MVP:D

Even if you don’t feel Malakey and Capers are upgrades, do you still think that the Dolphins have not improved personnel wise?

No, not really. That falls back to what I think of Daunte. he is the jewel of yuor offseason and I don't think he's half as good as his hype. I do think you upgraded in some areas and possibly upgraded in others but I think you made a major mistake w/ Daunte.

Do you really believe Frerotte is better than Culpepper? Do you feel that at this point in his career, Madison is better than Allen? You have to say that LJ is at least an upgrade to the depth if nothing else. Can you honestly say that the Dolphins have not improved personnel wise?

I would have stuck w/ Frerotte to wait out a better QB becoming available or drafting a QB. Frerotte will never put up great #s but he's made the playoffs as much as Daunte has and he led Miami to 9 wins in a better conf last year while daunte put up those "great" #s in '04 and led Minny to 8-8.

I'd say Allen-Madison is a wash and Shelton does provide depth. I do think the dolphins will be better this year but it may not be reflected in the record. I think simply b/c of young players from last year growing up a bit and from the team being in Saban's system year 2 you'll have a better team. You may not win 9 games again(I could say anywhere from 7-10 wins) b/c people won't be surprised like I think you caught them a bit last year but I do think you'll be a better team.

Fortunately, I am not old enough to remember the Dolphins last Super Bowl appearance. There is no unfortunately about that, as I do not think I would have wanted to watch that game live.

i was just a young kid and didn't really understand the rivalry then so I was actually rooting for you in that SB.

 

[The New Guy]

Every corner is going to face good receivers now and then. I know INts are not everything but Allen in 5 years has had more than 2 INts twice while Sam in 9 years has been under 2 only twice and in '98 sam had 8 INTs which is the career total of Allen. Allen has more passes defended b/c QBs throw more his way than Sam. Oh and Sam has faced much better WRs- guys like Keyshaw(when he was a top WR), Coles, Moss, Moulds, Andre Reed, Chrebet, Troy Brown, Terry Glenn, Peerless price(when he was good), etc...

There is no question that Sam’s career is far superior to Allen’s, but if you compare the last few years, Allen is just as good or better than Madison. Allen’s int total could be higher than it is, but he drops a lot of would be ints. Hopefully a little coaching will help.

Kordell got them to the title game and he led Pitt to 27 pts against Bal's D the week before. I wouldn't say Kordell cost them the game when the Pats had a PR TD and a blocked FG TD and only lost by 7.

It was really the Steelers defense that helped the Steelers get to the title game. They held the Ravens to only seven first downs and 175 total yards, including just 22 rushing yards. Plus, the Ravens were only 1-of-12 on third downs. I say Kordell cost them the game against the Pats because they had a chance to tie the game, and Kordell threw 2 ints in the last three minutes. Kordell seems to throw ints at crucial points in big games. He did the same thing against the Broncos in 98 AFC Title game.

Sure but Whisenhunt has done a great job w/ him. Ben doesn't carry that team, he doesn't allow him to try to do too much. I'm not a Mularkey guy, I didn't like him in Pitt and he was terrible as a HC.

I agree Whisenhunt has to get some of that credit as well, but I don’t think the Steelers would have made it to the Super Bowl if the 2001 Kordell Stewart was leading the team. Malarkey definitely was not a great head coach, but he was a solid OC.

he caught ligthning in a bottle w/ both of those guys. Remember Stewart also made an AFC Title Game as a starter in 1997 and Tommy maddox was the XFL's lone MVP

Stewart did make the AFC Title game in 97, but look at his #’s when Malarkey was the OC. It is hard to compare Maddox pre-Malarkey because of his limited NFL experience. He did have his best games under Malarkey, and did not play very well in the two games he played in after Malkey left.

I would have stuck w/ Frerotte to wait out a better QB becoming available or drafting a QB. Frerotte will never put up great #s but he's made the playoffs as much as Daunte has and he led Miami to 9 wins in a better conf last year while daunte put up those "great" #s in '04 and led Minny to 8-8.

Frerotte has never lead a team to the playoffs as the full time starter. If you count all the playoff teams he has been a part of, then he has actually been to the playoffs three times….. but only actually played in one playoff game. (Culpepper has started 4) In 1999 Frerotte only started six games for the Lions in place of Batch (only winning two of them), and they made the playoffs at 8-8. In 2000 Frerotte started six games for the Broncos (winning 4 of them), and helped them make the playoffs. In 2001 he only started 1 game (a loss) for the Broncos and they made the playoffs. In his 12 seasons as an NFL QB Frerotte has only played 4 seasons where he started the majority of the games for his team. In those four seasons the teams he started for were:


6-10 Redskins
9-7 Redskins
8-7 Redskins
9-7 Dolphins


Culpepper has only played in 6 seasons (half as many as Frerotte) and has 40 more TD passes, only 7 more Ints, and 2090 more yards than Frerotte. Culpepper has also won two playoffs games compared to 0 for Frerotte.
As bad as you feel Culpepper is, he is still much better than Frerotte. The key will be if he will be healthy to start the season.

As for Frerotte having 9 wins in a better conference, I am not so sure last years AFC East was much better than the 2004 NFC North. You also have to take into account that Rosenfels came in and won a game for us.

i was just a young kid and didn't really understand the rivalry then so I was actually rooting for you in that SB.

Wow, a Jets fan rooting for the Dolphins. Thanks for the support. Depending on the circumstances, I would root for the Jets. Once my team is out, I never root against a team just because they are in the same conference or division. I just go with who I like better. In 1998 I was rooting for Denver in the Super Bowl, but in 99 I was rootin for the Falcons. In 1997, and 2002, I actually found myself rooting for the Patriots.:eek: I have not rooted for them in a playoff game since though.

 

[nyjunc]

It was really the Steelers defense that helped the Steelers get to the title game. They held the Ravens to only seven first downs and 175 total yards, including just 22 rushing yards. Plus, the Ravens were only 1-of-12 on third downs. I say Kordell cost them the game against the Pats because they had a chance to tie the game, and Kordell threw 2 ints in the last three minutes. Kordell seems to throw ints at crucial points in big games. He did the same thing against the Broncos in 98 AFC Title game.

Again he made an AFC Title Game w/o Mularkey though. Kordell was great in 2001 then reverted back to normal in the title game but I still think the killers were the STs TDs.

I agree Whisenhunt has to get some of that credit as well, but I don’t think the Steelers would have made it to the Super Bowl if the 2001 Kordell Stewart was leading the team. Malarkey definitely was not a great head coach, but he was a solid OC.

I don't know. If we got the pre-title game Kordell then i think Pitt could have won it but does Kordell make the big tackle that ben did on the fumble recovery vs. Indy? I think they could have won w/ Kordell, Pitt did face choking QBs in the AFC playoffs and ben was brutal in the SB so Kordell could have been brutal too:D

Stewart did make the AFC Title game in 97, but look at his #’s when Malarkey was the OC. It is hard to compare Maddox pre-Malarkey because of his limited NFL experience. He did have his best games under Malarkey, and did not play very well in the two games he played in after Malkey left.

We'll see, I put alot of emphasis on how players and untis play in big games and big moments. Mularkey's guys never came through(same thing w/ Linehan) but we'll see. You could do alot worse at OC than Mularkey.

Frerotte has never lead a team to the playoffs as the full time starter. If you count all the playoff teams he has been a part of, then he has actually been to the playoffs three times….. but only actually played in one playoff game.

He started the game for det in '99 and Denver in '00:

http://footballdb.com/boxscore/2000010802

http://footballdb.com/boxscore/2000123101

In his 12 seasons as an NFL QB Frerotte has only played 4 seasons where he started the majority of the games for his team. In those four seasons the teams he started for were:


6-10 Redskins
9-7 Redskins
8-7 Redskins
9-7 Dolphins

So that makes his lifetime record as a full time starter as 32-31 which is 1 game OVER .500 while Daunte's lifetime record is 4 games UNDER .500. Give me a guy who wins any day over a guy who puts up reat #s and doesn't win.

As for Frerotte having 9 wins in a better conference, I am not so sure last years AFC East was much better than the 2004 NFC North. You also have to take into account that Rosenfels came in and won a game for us.

as bad as the AFC East was it was still better than the NFC North. The Jets and Bills were tougher than GB and Det and obviously NE and Mia were better than Chi and Minny.

Wow, a Jets fan rooting for the Dolphins. Thanks for the support. Depending on the circumstances, I would root for the Jets. Once my team is out, I never root against a team just because they are in the same conference or division. I just go with who I like better. In 1998 I was rooting for Denver in the Super Bowl, but in 99 I was rootin for the Falcons. In 1997, and 2002, I actually found myself rooting for the Patriots. I have not rooted for them in a playoff game since though.

The 1st time in my life I ever rooted for an NFC team was in '02(Jan '03) when Oak played TB. We just lost to oak and they talked alot of trash so I couldn't root for them. The next and only other time was the Pats-Philly SB. I rooted for the pats in '85, '96, '01 and '03 but i couldn't again.