Looks to me as if he's leaning away from the ball when he should be stepping toward it. Ball placement was bad but you got to help the QB out there IMO. That's the way I see it.
Michael Egnew...
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You're impossible to argue with simply because you keep churning out facts and pictures and actual deciphering of thought. Damn you. I'm a pretty big Egnew hater simply because I hated where he was selected and the players left on the board, but you just showed me that he was absolutely in place to score, and it was not his fault.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I disagree and I don't see how there's any way to interpret a body lean away from the quarterback from that picture. The fact that he's got his shoulders squared back to the quarterback and his hands reaching toward the quarterback for the football shows that he's doing everything he can.
EDIT: People keep interpreting my tone lately so I'll say it outright. I'm not trying to sound condescending or anything like that. I literally can't see how to draw the conclusion you've drawn from that pic but to each their own, there are plenty of times people don't understand how I can draw my conclusions.
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ckparrothead
Premium Member
Well I'm not impossible to argue with. People do it all the time.
You have no reason at this point to change your mind on Egnew. The guy needs to step up and make more plays.
Hell there's one play in the Carolina game I'm glad Hard Knocks didn't show because if they did then even as down as people are on Egnew, it would be worse, lol. The flip side to that is, I really do doubt 9 out of 10 people on here could pick out the play Dan Campbell complained about unless given a heads up on what to look for.
He's leaning away...? The guy is running full speed towards the back of the end zone. So you expect him to cut straight inside towards the QB in the nano second from where the ball gets out of Devlin's hands?? This isnt Madden for god sakes...
EDIT: after watching the picture CK provided, you can also see the LB at least a full two yards closer to the QB trailing Egnew by half a step... That ball has got to be high and leading for any hope of success, and even then its an awsome catch...
Yeah I just see it differently ck. I wish there was a side view to get a better look. I'm not hating on Egnew, I didn't expect much of him this year anyway and I've said that before, I think he's more of a project. I'm just disappointed we didn't get Tannehill any weapons to make his transition to the NFL easier.
---------- Post added at 04:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:47 PM ----------
Can you do that in Madden? I don't play it so I wouldn't know. Have you ever looked at the way Davone Bess runs his routes? He comes back to the QB to cut off the lane for the CBs to jump in front of him. Try checking him out sometime.
Not sure if serious...? You're comparing a TE to a slot receiver?
Does he catch the freakin ball? Are TEs supposed to catch the ball differently than receivers do? I always thought both positions used their hands to catch the ball and their feet to run. Do TEs use their feet to catch and their hands to run? In that case Egnew is totally backwards.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Well let me ask you this question though. Do you think that route is drawn up to where Michael Egnew is supposed to cut back to the quarterback, or do you think that route is drawn up to be run in the back of the end zone?
Its drawn up to be run in the back of the end zone IMO. But if a receiver sees, in this case, the linebacker undercut him he's got to come to the ball and fight for it. I'm sure you've seen Gronkowski or Tony Gonzalez rip the ball out of a defenders hands when the pass is being contested.
I don't understand how the whole play is being blamed on Pat Devlin and Egnew is being absolved of any wrong doing. I always look at plays as a whole. What could the receiver have done to make this play work? What could the QB have done to make this play work? Once in a while the defense makes a great play where the offense just had no chance but that's not the case against 3rd and 4th string players. Yes Devlin could have delivered the pass higher and more in front but what could have been done on the other end that could have made the play work. There are going to be times where Egnew is going to face defenders who are going to undercut that route and he's going to have to turn defender and either knock the ball away or make a move towards the ball quicker than the defender does. And Devlin is going to have to improve his ball placement. You can't give away points in the redzone in this league, not on a play that should have been a pretty easy 6 points there.
RobertHorry
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Ok, lets put it another way. Hes running basically a deep slant/crossing route. He's going horizontal across the endzone and running in a straight line when Devlin throws it.
Its almost impossible to stop running full speed and just start coming back to the ball as if he's running a curl route where he would square his shoulders and come back to the ball. Egnew had a step on the defender. If Devlin throws it a tad further and higher up in his top zone, its a touchdown.
Saying "why he doesn't come back to the ball" is pointless, he's running a route where you essentially cannot come back to the ball with the timing and way the ball is throwing with regards the route and way Egnew is running.
OK, I must be able to defy the laws of physics then. Carry on. Devlin is at fault here Egnew did nothing wrong.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I think it's just the opposite. The linebacker is taking the inside position, and you've got a step on him, so you maximize your distance away from the linebacker and wait for the high ball which the linabacker would not have any shot of defending.
Not in that situation on those routes, IMO. Different routes, different situations.
It's really as simple as this. You've got a tight end running with a linebacker a step behind and two steps in front in the back of the end zone, what do you do? I'm pretty sure every starting QB knows to throw a high ball, not a ball at chin level. So yeah, I really do understand how Pat Devlin is criticized on that route but Michael Egnew is not.
The ball didn't even have to be more in front of Egnew. Just higher. Any higher whatsoever and it's a touchdown. Chin level and the linebacker slaps it away.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
On this we definitely agree. In order to come back to the ball more, Egnew would have had to cut his route earlier to where he wasn't drifting to the back of the end zone but was actually coming back to the front of the end zone...and that's not the way the route is drawn (I don't think).
Irishfinfan1
Active Roster
I'm glad your fighting all the negativity about Egnew CK, I appreciate that you are looking at facts and providing coherent accurate counters to a lot of what has been argued. 2 Preseason games for a player that was always going to be a project is way way too little to make a judgement on him. He could end up good he could end up a pile of crap, but now isn't the time to draw conclusions on how he will pan out. Wasn't Polemalu ineffective as a rookie, you just need to give people time and let them develop although there usually are indications along the way. I would also like to point out that it is very easy to predict that a player won't turn out good and end up being correct, if you get two-three good starters per draft you are doing reasonably well so being negative about a player you are more likely that not to be correct.