Mike Mayock says Alex Mack "not" the best Center

[jim1]

I really disagree with that. I watched him closely against some of the opponents you say he struggled against and I did not see what you are talking about.

I think he has struggled at times this year, he is a second year player and he was bracketed by crap the final third of the season, and the criticisms have just snowballed to where the statements about what he did or did not do are not really reflecting what actually happened.

All that I can go by is why I saw, and that was Satele either getting shoved around or getting very little push for most of the year. I made a point of keying on him in a few games, most noteably the second game against NE down here and the playoff game against the Ravens, and he was in the range of mediocre to downright awful. To be clear about it, those two games stand out as particularly lousy efforts, but from what I saw he was a liability for most of the year. Just my opinion.

And even though the Guard position was a problem due to injury, Satele was yanked late in the year and replaced by a Free Agent, Al Johnson. That's not to be taken lightly in my book, and is an omen of things to come. Johnson didn't last long, so that makes me wonder how good he is and his prospects for next year as well. Ergo Mack, Unger, etc.

 

[ckparrothead]

the kris jenkins we saw in the first game and the kris jenkins we saw in the final game were 2 different players. jenkins looked like and had looked like it for some weeks that he had run out of gas and mailed it in for the year.

i think a lot of the success satele had against wilfork in the first game was more a result of the surprise wildcat but that's just my opinion. i agree he had nothing around him the last 3rd of the season. alleman and ndukwe were just bad.

i've also heard that satele had shoulder surgery after the season and played with a minor injury throughout most of the year but i haven't been able to confirm or deny it.

i think we need a more power and physical presence at center for this offense.

I think we need more power and physical presence on the interior of the OL...but not necessarily at the Center spot. Fact of the matter is, Justin Smiley is not a power guy, and when he went down Andy Alleman was not very good, and Ikechuku Ndukwe is not the power guy that Donald Thomas was. So, did we lack power in the interior? Absolutely. But don't use a cannon to kill a mosquito, or throw the baby out with the bath water. Get your people HEALTHY, and then focus on having better depth to replace the unhealthy players than Ikechuku Ndukwe and Andy Alleman.

We went into the season with about zero OL depth and I think everyone knew that, especially once it became apparent that Shawn Murphy sucked as a rookie.

So get your people healthy, get some OL depth, and then we'll be much better off for it. Don't start writing off second round investments like bad debt just because he struggled on a few occasions this year, only his second year in the league, and quite possibly injured as you say, while surrounded by waiver wire players.

 

[ckparrothead]

All that I can go by is why I saw, and that was Satele either getting shoved around or getting very little push for most of the year. I made a point of keying on him in a few games, most noteably the second game against NE down here and the playoff game against the Ravens, and he was in the range of mediocre to downright awful. To be clear about it, those two games stand out as particularly lousy efforts, but from what I saw he was a liability for most of the year. Just my opinion.

Then it's clear why your opinion is so far out of whack. You coincidentally happened to be focusing on him during games in which he struggled, and were not focusing on him during games in which he played well, or played fine.

And even though the Guard position was a problem due to injury, Satele was yanked late in the year and replaced by a Free Agent, Al Johnson. That's not to be taken lightly in my book, and is an omen of things to come. Johnson didn't last long, so that makes me wonder how good he is and his prospects for next year as well. Ergo Mack, Unger, etc.

And that last part there I highlighted just isn't even true. Al Johnson only ended up playing a handful of snaps for the Miami Dolphins this year, and on those snaps, Samson Satele was moved over to Guard. That's the truth. Tony Sparano was very unhappy with our Guard play and it's the reason we have a new OL coach, it's the reason why every draft offensive lineman that I have heard of Miami speaking to, has been a Guard by trade.

 

[jim1]

Then it's clear why your opinion is so far out of whack. You coincidentally happened to be focusing on him during games in which he struggled, and were not focusing on him during games in which he played well, or played fine.



And that last part there I highlighted just isn't even true. Al Johnson only ended up playing a handful of snaps for the Miami Dolphins this year, and on those snaps, Samson Satele was moved over to Guard. That's the truth. Tony Sparano was very unhappy with our Guard play and it's the reason we have a new OL coach, it's the reason why every draft offensive lineman that I have heard of Miami speaking to, has been a Guard by trade.

Regarding your first comment- well, you obviously didn't read the rest of the paragraph. I added the sentence that followed because I knew that it was inevitable that someone would jump on that and misread or misrepresent my comments.. My efforts were obviously wasted. So, again, Satele looked particularly bad in those games, but was a liability in the running attack for most of the year. I saw every game- you mention the 1st Patriots game- the Dolphins unveiled the Wildcat- don't confuse that with Satele doing particularly well against Wilfork. The whole Pats defense was confused and suspect that game. And in their next meeting, Satele got smoked by Wilfork. Big time.

No offense, but if anyone's opinions on this matter are "out of whack", it's yours. The media down here and most of the Dolfans that I know consider Satele a liability and his staring job in danger. We'll see who's right and wrong next year, but calling my opinions "out of whack" seems a bit much, and a bit odd. Anyway, no big deal, we all have our own opinions.

 

[Roman529]

FOr all those Alex Mack at pick #25 bandwagon...Mike Mayock has Erick Wood and Max Unger as the top 2 Centers in the draft. He likes Alex Mack, but feels the other two will be better...so

Maybe Mack will be there at pick #44 or #57?

Anyways, if we are thinking C/G in the first round, it shouldn't be the 3rd best C...

Of course, I think that the #44 pick is reserved for NT Ron Brace.

I think it is best to wait for the combines to see who is the "best" at Center. I think besides just looking at game film of how these guys have competed in college, you also have to look at the competition these guys have faced, and then get down to who can bench the most, speed, foot work, hand size/arm length, etc. I would go with BJ Raji first and then grab a Center with one of our 2nd rounders, and probably a d-back with the other. I also like Raji's BC teamate (Ron Brace).

 

[X-Pacolypse]

I've been high on Jonathan Luigs for a while now, but Eric Wood has really started to grow on me as of late.

 

[Rev Kev]

I think it is best to wait for the combines to see who is the "best" at Center. I think besides just looking at game film of how these guys have competed in college, you also have to look at the competition these guys have faced, and then get down to who can bench the most, speed, foot work, hand size/arm length, etc. I would go with BJ Raji first and then grab a Center with one of our 2nd rounders, and probably a d-back with the other. I also like Raji's BC teamate (Ron Brace).

Same Roman we agree..., The Oline needs some infusion on that first day and likely in the second round..., If Raji is gone I think they trade the pick..., see we are still very much in a rebuild...

 

[ckparrothead]

Regarding your first comment- well, you obviously didn't read the rest of the paragraph. I added the sentence that followed because I knew that it was inevitable that someone would jump on that and misread or misrepresent my comments.. My efforts were obviously wasted. So, again, Satele looked particularly bad in those games, but was a liability in the running attack for most of the year. I saw every game- you mention the 1st Patriots game- the Dolphins unveiled the Wildcat- don't confuse that with Satele doing particularly well against Wilfork. The whole Pats defense was confused and suspect that game. And in their next meeting, Satele got smoked by Wilfork. Big time.

No offense, but if anyone's opinions on this matter are "out of whack", it's yours. The media down here and most of the Dolfans that I know consider Satele a liability and his staring job in danger. We'll see who's right and wrong next year, but calling my opinions "out of whack" seems a bit much, and a bit odd. Anyway, no big deal, we all have our own opinions.

Yeah, well, once upon a time everyone considered Vernon Carey a bust, but a very, very, very small handful of us that actually paid attention to his playing time and saw what was going on could tell he was doing ok. Once upon a time, everyone among fans and media thought Jason Taylor was not a starting quality defensive end, said that "the book had been written" on how to block him, and that all you had to do was "muscle him". A small minority of us thought that sounded absurd.

We will indeed see. But, unless it's for Jason Brown, who is not only one of the premier Centers in the league, but also an affordable guy whose position limits his contract value more than his worth should normally dictate (IMO)...I don't see them ditching Samson Satele this off season. We'll find out soon enough.

 

[NRA]

of course ALEX MACK is not the top center to MAYOCK.

because MAX UNGER is the the best center in this draft
with NO ONE close.

watch films of dwight stevenson [for those not old enough just to remember]
and you will INSTANLY see the similarities in his game. he is EXTREMEMLY quick off
the ball and into his man and can really stand an anchor. he will get pushed back,
but he has that ability to lock his legs and stand the guy up stopping him dead
cold.

he gets out in space and looks for guys to plow over. he would be an upper level
guard in the nfl also.

mack is a late 3rd round center/guard to me and will probably be a guard in the
nfl.

 

[FINMAN13]

The Boston College DT's are just having their way with all interior lineman so far. While Mack has the tag of being a mauler, he has not shown up vs. the BC DT's...

 

[lbmclean_sj]

The Boston College DT's are just having their way with all interior lineman so far. While Mack has the tag of being a mauler, he has not shown up vs. the BC DT's...

those guys made alot of money this week

alot of teams are looking for genuine NT's

 

[jim1]

of course ALEX MACK is not the top center to MAYOCK.

because MAX UNGER is the the best center in this draft
with NO ONE close.

watch films of dwight stevenson [for those not old enough just to remember]
and you will INSTANLY see the similarities in his game. he is EXTREMEMLY quick off
the ball and into his man and can really stand an anchor. he will get pushed back,
but he has that ability to lock his legs and stand the guy up stopping him dead
cold.

he gets out in space and looks for guys to plow over. he would be an upper level
guard in the nfl also.

mack is a late 3rd round center/guard to me and will probably be a guard in the
nfl.

Actually Antoinne Caldwell reminds me a lot of Dwight Stephenson. Incredible feet, incredible quickness.

 

[skipp2myloo13]

of course ALEX MACK is not the top center to MAYOCK.

because MAX UNGER is the the best center in this draft
with NO ONE close.

watch films of dwight stevenson [for those not old enough just to remember]
and you will INSTANLY see the similarities in his game. he is EXTREMEMLY quick off
the ball and into his man and can really stand an anchor. he will get pushed back,
but he has that ability to lock his legs and stand the guy up stopping him dead
cold.

he gets out in space and looks for guys to plow over. he would be an upper level
guard in the nfl also.

mack is a late 3rd round center/guard to me and will probably be a guard in the
nfl.

every single one of your posts should be followed up with a simple FAIL! do you just think of the stupidest thing and say it knowing it will annoy the real football fans? cobbs>ronnie. Mack in the 3rd. Unger best center. get outta here, please!

 

[finfan54]

Isn't Mayock the one who said Long would be better suited to Right Tackle and wouldn't be that good at Left Tackle? Hmm, then I guess Long making the Pro Bowl now as a Rookie Left Tackle means Mayock should be eating a pretty healthy plate of crow.

Mayock has been wrong lately and he really puts himself out there but sometimes I think that is him being extra sure of himself. I wouldnt take Mayocks word as bible. Its really just an opinion.

 

[finfan54]

I tell you what, while everyone is obsessed with Alex Mack and Max Unger (and now Eric Wood), I see Miami's choices differently.

I think that, ok, if you're going to give up on Samson Satele...then you do it in a big way. You go ahead and get yourself Jason Brown, the hottest Center free agent in the game, a guy that went up against Haloti Ngata (quite possibly the premier NT in football) in practice every day and came out one tough son of a gun. He will expect to be paid the most of any Center in football. That's not difficult, actually. The Bucs made Jeff Faine the highest paid Center in the NFL with a 6 year, $37.5 million contract that included $15 million to sign. The extension Olin Kreutz signed in 2006 pays him roughly 5.8 million a year for three years. The contract Andre Gurode signed in 2007 was six years, $30 million, with $10 million to sign. Nick Hardwick is only being paid $17 million on 6 years.

Just last year we signed Justin Smiley to a 5 year, $25 million deal...and giving Jason Brown what he wants will only cost a little over a million a year more than Justin Smiley? That's not a terrible deal, if you feel that the Center position is SO important, that we already need to write off Samson Satele, a second round investment, and use our #25 overall pick on yet another Center. I say that if you're going to do that, do it right, get a guy that's proven, get Jason Brown.

On the other hand, I don't think we should do that at all. While everyone is obsessed with Alex Mack and Max Unger, personally I'm looking at an A.Q. Shipley. He is someone you can get much cheaper, much lower, that played extremely well at Penn State, is a very smart player, a former Nose Guard that knows leverage and can't be bull rushed. He won the Rimington Award as the nation's top Center. He is an All American. He's knocked because he doesn't have long arms. Big deal. Neither did Nick Mangold.

If you take an A.Q. Shipley much lower in the draft, he can function as depth, like an Al Johnson, and IF he's good enough, THEN you can start to think about putting him in the starting lineup over Samson Satele, and moving Samson out to one of the guard spots as depth (if Donald Thomas pans out) or as a starter (if Thomas gets hurt).

In the mean time, judging from the players that Miami is out there interviewing...I have no reason to believe they're targeting an Alex Mack, Max Unger, Eric Wood, Antoine Caldwell or Johnathan Luigs.

Pay through the nose for Jason Brown, or take an A.Q. Shipley. Those are the choices I would be deciding between.

This and TJ Houz are my two top Free agents IMO. If you get Scott from Baltimore that is icing on the cake. But I would much rather do this and draft defense bigtime in this one cus you move Satele out to G and backup C and walla, you have instant depth and strong front.