Mike Mayock says Alex Mack "not" the best Center

[thejetssuck]

I think MrEd is just trying to say that even guys with proven track records are wrong a good amount of the time and so it's perfectly valid to disagree with them on any given issue.

Of course, he could have said it a lot less combatively.

And also, anyone who really thinks Mel Kiper is an idiot, sounds ignorant to me.

What I can;t stand about Mel Kiper is how he ******* and whines and trashes teams that don't pick the players he thought they should have picked in the draft. I'll take John Clayton's or Mike Mayock's analysis over Mel Kiper's any day. Mel Kiper is one pretentious SOB and I really wish espn would replace him with someone better. Hopefully you can take his job away from him someday CK.

 

[I am Bane]

i agree with this.... hence why i am saying i not fond of a lot of linemen out there. Mack is the most stout and applies a punch then the other C... Unger gets driven backwards often, playing too high, and people get under him easily... plus most of these guys dont have great strong legs, and poor base... hence why some may say Mack is on the ground a lot.

not overly fond of these guys, but Mack would be the guy i go with. can bulk more, great knowledge in there, and is very strong.

Strikes me that Mack is more of a Parcells type of OL. He's bigger and, from what I read, more physical than Unger. Wood is also pretty big and relatively physical. I wonder if any of these guys are great run blockers as Cal, Oregon and Louisville are known to primarily passing teams. I agree that I'll take our FO talent evaluators over Kiper and Mayock any day.

 

[ckparrothead]

Kiper is just confident because he's been doing this work a long time and he actually has great insight, and most importantly does his homework. So he's confident in his evaluations. I don't have a problem with that.

One thing people have to realize I think is there's a lot of either/or involved in all of this. For instance, if you grab Jason Brown, you lose Vernon Carey. You ok with that? If you let Vernon Carey walk, and replace him with a first round tackle such as Eben Britton, Andre Smith or William Beatty...you free up the money to grab yourself a player like a Karlos Dansby...maybe even an Albert Haynesworth. Wouldn't that be kind of cool?

Also keep in mind many of the name free agents won't be leaving their respective teams. You have to be keen to spot out the situations where the teams are a bit hamstrung. For instance, I think that between Karlos Dansby, Kurt Warner, the Darnell Dockett situation, the Anquan Boldin situation, Leonard Pope (RFA), Antonio Smith, Bertrand Berry, Gabe Watson (RFA), Eric Green, Ralph Brown, the Antrel Rolle situation, the Edgerrin James situation...there are going to be some players shaking loose out of Arizona. You kind of have to hope maybe the right ones shake loose.

Also, in Carolina they've got two biggies in Julius Peppers and Jordan Gross. They can probably only keep one. Which is it?

Baltimore has to deal with Terrell Suggs, Ray Lewis, Bart Scott, Jason Brown and Jim Leonhard all being UFAs. I think most people assume Bart Scott will shake loose, but they also probably assume he'll follow Rex up to New York.

 

[Rio]

need to find a starting: Center,WR. & NG this off season

 

[MrClean]

FOr all those Alex Mack at pick #25 bandwagon...Mike Mayock has Erick Wood and Max Unger as the top 2 Centers in the draft. He likes Alex Mack, but feels the other two will be better...so

Maybe Mack will be there at pick #44 or #57?

Anyways, if we are thinking C/G in the first round, it shouldn't be the 3rd best C...

Of course, I think that the #44 pick is reserved for NT Ron Brace.

This is one issue I have with Mayock, though I usually prefer him 10 to 1 over Helmet Hair Mel. On Monday of Senior Bowl week, he ranked the Cs as Unger, Wood, Mack. Then after two days of practices there, he flip flopped Unger and Wood. IMO, there is little of nothing from just 2 days of practices that should change the order. He spoke of Wood on Wednesday as if he were his #1 C all along and from looking at his list, I know it did not reflect that. If Wood is his #1 center, that's fine, he just should have been before Senior Bowl week.

 

[3rdandinches]

Kiper is just confident because he's been doing this work a long time and he actually has great insight, and most importantly does his homework. So he's confident in his evaluations. I don't have a problem with that.

One thing people have to realize I think is there's a lot of either/or involved in all of this. For instance, if you grab Jason Brown, you lose Vernon Carey. You ok with that? If you let Vernon Carey walk, and replace him with a first round tackle such as Eben Britton, Andre Smith or William Beatty...you free up the money to grab yourself a player like a Karlos Dansby...maybe even an Albert Haynesworth. Wouldn't that be kind of cool?

Also keep in mind many of the name free agents won't be leaving their respective teams. You have to be keen to spot out the situations where the teams are a bit hamstrung. For instance, I think that between Karlos Dansby, Kurt Warner, the Darnell Dockett situation, the Anquan Boldin situation, Leonard Pope (RFA), Antonio Smith, Bertrand Berry, Gabe Watson (RFA), Eric Green, Ralph Brown, the Antrel Rolle situation, the Edgerrin James situation...there are going to be some players shaking loose out of Arizona. You kind of have to hope maybe the right ones shake loose.

Also, in Carolina they've got two biggies in Julius Peppers and Jordan Gross. They can probably only keep one. Which is it?

Baltimore has to deal with Terrell Suggs, Ray Lewis, Bart Scott, Jason Brown and Jim Leonhard all being UFAs. I think most people assume Bart Scott will shake loose, but they also probably assume he'll follow Rex up to New York.

Each situation is interesting Carolina needs Peppers badly and have no one else to replace him but he says he wants out. J.Gross can be replaced by Wharton or Otah and then their spots are easily replaced in the draft. Their also in bad cap shape which really doesn't help them.

Baltimore has always spent their money on defense and it seems to only get them so far. I can't believe they'd let Lewis go when he's the leader and still plays great defense. Scott seems to be the easy one to replace if you re-sign Suggs and Lewis. If J.Brown makes the open market he has to become priority one (and I'm a big A.Mack fan otherwise), we could still re-sign VC or another draft pick could be used there.

Arizona's another wild scenario with alot of guys are going to want inflated contracts after making it to the Superbowl. Dansby would be seeking the most and hopefully they figure they can let him go and porbably replace him with another WR lol!

It will be one interesting offseason!!!!!

 

[Rev Kev]

No C is going first round - sorry cannot buy it...

5 Cs are not going in the second round sorry can't buy it...

FO will bite into a C/G when the time is right... I can buy into that

 

[BillParFan]

But I would much rather do this and draft defense bigtime in this one cus you move Satele out to G and backup C and walla, you have instant depth and strong front.

Walla?

As in Ooo eee,ooo ah ah ting tang, Walla walla, bing bang? :wink:
J/K

Sparano went on to make the point Satele played guard at Hawaii and that, as the Dallas offensive line coach, Sparano studied the player before the draft.
"We really looked at him as a swing player at the time when we were in Dallas -- a center-guard," the coach said. "We knew that was something that he has done and I think, athletically, when you take the ball out from between his legs and you put him over there at guard, it gives him a chance to get his hands on people a little bit faster. So I thought he did a pretty good job.”

 

[skipp2myloo13]

Skipp2myloo says "all these so called experts, dont know what the hell they are talking about"

 

[PHINANALYST]

i don't think it matters, as i just don't see our FO using the #1 on a C ... 'maybe' 2b or the 3d ...

 

[SamIam]

Jason Brown is RFA and not a UFA.

2009 NFL Free Agent Offensive Linemen

Matt Birk, UFA, Minnesota Vikings
Birk is a Pro Bowl center that has gotten the job done for the Vikings for the last decade. He’s fairly athletic for a lineman and was playing alongside another great lineman in guard Steve Hutchinson, making Birk’s life even easier on the field the past couple of seasons. He’s grounded in Minnesota, so the chances of him choosing to leave seem slim at the moment. However, Minnesota is grooming John Sullivan in hopes that he will eventually replace Birk.

Mike Goff, UFA, San Diego Chargers
While the Chargers would probably prefer to keep Goff, the franchise has been effective in drafting and developing linemen and might look for Goff’s replacement at a better price. Goff has been a leader who simply goes about his business and players like running back Ladainian Tomlinson have benefited from his level of play. Goff has played for a quality line for some time and he’s a big part of the equation when it comes to success.

Jordan Gross, UFA, Carolina Panthers
A first round pick in 2003, Gross earned a starting role in his rookie season and held that role as a tackle for the entire season. His ability to step in and play well right away paid off for the Panthers, as the team put together a run to an NFC Championship that season. He’s continued being a starter since that rookie season and is a solid player. Carolina slapped the franchise tag on him for this season, and chances are he will be another team come ’09.

Mark Tauscher, UFA, Green Bay Packers
Tauscher is a seventh round pick that became a success story. In his first season in the NFL, he was forced into a starting role because of an injury to another player. Tauscher isn’t an elite player, but he is solid in his role as a starter and hadn’t missed a game since 2002 until this season. Tauscher could be at the top of many team’s lists because he could come cheaper than some of the other free agent lineman, but could be nearly or equally effective.

Marvel Smith, UFA, Pittsburgh Steelers
Smith may not be the most sought after offensive lineman during free agency, but he could be a bargain for a team willing to chance his health concerns by offering him a contract. He is a Pro-Bowl player with a Super Bowl ring, but back injuries have forced him to miss time this season and to be placed on injured reserve, thus impacting his potential value on the market. When healthy, Smith is one of the league’s best and Pittsburgh will attempt to keep him around because of the quality of player he has shown he can be.

Jahri Evans, RFA, New Orleans Saints
Since starting every game at the guard position in his rookie season, Evans has proven to be a quality lineman. He was drafted in the fourth round, but is in for a decent-sized contract this offseason. Any team in the market for a guard is going to consider Evans and the fact that he has helped protect for quarterback Drew Brees and an offense that has had plenty of time to operate and rack up yards. The Saints will look to keep Evans around, but there is bound to be a team willing to tempt him with a fair amount of money.

Jason Brown, RFA, Baltimore Ravens
A fourth round selection in ’05 for the Ravens, Brown played in all sixteen games in ’06, starting in twelve of those appearances, and has started each game during the past two seasons. He is a quick guard who can also play center in a pinch. Rookie quarterback Joe Flacco benefited from the protection he was afforded by the likes of Brown. Baltimore’s offense is asked to complement one of the league’s best defensive units and Brown’s stability on the line has been critical. Whichever team winds up signing Brown will be adding security at a guard spot.

Jeff Saturday, UFA, Indianapolis Colts
Saturday entered the league with little fanfare as an undrafted free agent. Now, he has become one of the league’s best centers and will command a decent contract for his experience and performance. Having already earned three Pro Bowl and All Pro selections and a Super Bowl ring, Saturday is crucial to the Colts offensive line and winning ways. While a handful of teams could make a run at Saturday, expect the Colts to do everything in their power to retain the veteran center.


Other Offensive Lineman
Stacy Andrews, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals
Khalif Barnes, UFA, Jacksonville Jaguars
Jordan Black, UFA, Houston Texans
Vernon Carey, UFA, Miami Dolphins
George Foster, UFA, Detroit Lions
Chris Gray, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Pete Kendall, UFA, Washington Redskins
Seth McKinney, UFA, Cleveland Browns
Jon Runyan, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles
Tra Thomas, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles
Fred Weary, UFA, Houston Texans
John Welbourn, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs

 

[CedarPhin]

Do you think Goff would be someone worth looking at? Or do you scoff at the idea of Goff? haha.

 

[4THand10]

Jason Brown is RFA and not a UFA.

2009 NFL Free Agent Offensive Linemen

Matt Birk, UFA, Minnesota Vikings
Birk is a Pro Bowl center that has gotten the job done for the Vikings for the last decade. He’s fairly athletic for a lineman and was playing alongside another great lineman in guard Steve Hutchinson, making Birk’s life even easier on the field the past couple of seasons. He’s grounded in Minnesota, so the chances of him choosing to leave seem slim at the moment. However, Minnesota is grooming John Sullivan in hopes that he will eventually replace Birk.

Mike Goff, UFA, San Diego Chargers
While the Chargers would probably prefer to keep Goff, the franchise has been effective in drafting and developing linemen and might look for Goff’s replacement at a better price. Goff has been a leader who simply goes about his business and players like running back Ladainian Tomlinson have benefited from his level of play. Goff has played for a quality line for some time and he’s a big part of the equation when it comes to success.

Jordan Gross, UFA, Carolina Panthers
A first round pick in 2003, Gross earned a starting role in his rookie season and held that role as a tackle for the entire season. His ability to step in and play well right away paid off for the Panthers, as the team put together a run to an NFC Championship that season. He’s continued being a starter since that rookie season and is a solid player. Carolina slapped the franchise tag on him for this season, and chances are he will be another team come ’09.

Mark Tauscher, UFA, Green Bay Packers
Tauscher is a seventh round pick that became a success story. In his first season in the NFL, he was forced into a starting role because of an injury to another player. Tauscher isn’t an elite player, but he is solid in his role as a starter and hadn’t missed a game since 2002 until this season. Tauscher could be at the top of many team’s lists because he could come cheaper than some of the other free agent lineman, but could be nearly or equally effective.

Marvel Smith, UFA, Pittsburgh Steelers
Smith may not be the most sought after offensive lineman during free agency, but he could be a bargain for a team willing to chance his health concerns by offering him a contract. He is a Pro-Bowl player with a Super Bowl ring, but back injuries have forced him to miss time this season and to be placed on injured reserve, thus impacting his potential value on the market. When healthy, Smith is one of the league’s best and Pittsburgh will attempt to keep him around because of the quality of player he has shown he can be.

Jahri Evans, RFA, New Orleans Saints
Since starting every game at the guard position in his rookie season, Evans has proven to be a quality lineman. He was drafted in the fourth round, but is in for a decent-sized contract this offseason. Any team in the market for a guard is going to consider Evans and the fact that he has helped protect for quarterback Drew Brees and an offense that has had plenty of time to operate and rack up yards. The Saints will look to keep Evans around, but there is bound to be a team willing to tempt him with a fair amount of money.

Jason Brown, RFA, Baltimore Ravens
A fourth round selection in ’05 for the Ravens, Brown played in all sixteen games in ’06, starting in twelve of those appearances, and has started each game during the past two seasons. He is a quick guard who can also play center in a pinch. Rookie quarterback Joe Flacco benefited from the protection he was afforded by the likes of Brown. Baltimore’s offense is asked to complement one of the league’s best defensive units and Brown’s stability on the line has been critical. Whichever team winds up signing Brown will be adding security at a guard spot.

Jeff Saturday, UFA, Indianapolis Colts
Saturday entered the league with little fanfare as an undrafted free agent. Now, he has become one of the league’s best centers and will command a decent contract for his experience and performance. Having already earned three Pro Bowl and All Pro selections and a Super Bowl ring, Saturday is crucial to the Colts offensive line and winning ways. While a handful of teams could make a run at Saturday, expect the Colts to do everything in their power to retain the veteran center.


Other Offensive Lineman
Stacy Andrews, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals
Khalif Barnes, UFA, Jacksonville Jaguars
Jordan Black, UFA, Houston Texans
Vernon Carey, UFA, Miami Dolphins
George Foster, UFA, Detroit Lions
Chris Gray, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Pete Kendall, UFA, Washington Redskins
Seth McKinney, UFA, Cleveland Browns
Jon Runyan, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles
Tra Thomas, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles
Fred Weary, UFA, Houston Texans
John Welbourn, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs

James Brown is a UFA not a RFA.He has played 4 years not 3 years making him a UFA.(2005,2006,2007,2008)

 

[SamIam]

I took the info from another site, maybe your right

 

[MrClean]

James Brown is a UFA not a RFA.He has played 4 years not 3 years making him a UFA.(2005,2006,2007,2008)

That is entirely correct. Jason Brown was a RFA last year and signed the one year tender. He will be a UFA when free agency opens. That web site saying his is a RFA is WRONG. It was mentioned in another thread and I believe the site is football futures or something close to that. There are other mistakes on that list too. Fred Weary is no longer with the Texans for example.