More analysis that Matt Ryan, not Jake Long, should’ve been the pick in 2008

[Predaphin]

Jake Long is not only the best tackle in the division, but in the entire NFL!

Matt Ryan isn't even in the top 5 QBs in the league....

Consider the fact that Ryan would have been handcuffed in Sparano's offense...ummm yeah, I'll take Jake Long again and again

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Arizona Close Game but he was against Aging Warner on last parade and was out scored....Greenbay they were stomped (48-21) and against the Giants?! Really?! 24-2 is not "close" It has progressively gotten worse

Aaron Rodgers lost to that same "aging" Kurt Warner in the playoffs. His playoff record is non-existent other than the one season Green Bay made it to the superbowl.

Here's the point. Once Matt Ryan wins a playoff game, or even a superbowl.... he SUDDENLY becomes a franchise quarterback? It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

He's the same quarteback now that he'll be after he wins a playoff game or a championship.

Winning playoffs games and/or a superbowl isn't what makes you an elite quarterback. Marino has a losing record in the playoffs.

Warren Moon, Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts, etc... none of them have won a superbowl. Being elite quarterbacks isn't up for debate.


A franchise quarterback is a quarterback who's team lives and dies by him. A franchise quarterback is the guy who brings stability and consistency to the position year and year out that wins football games. The guy who makes irrelevant franchises relevant. A franchise quarterback is the guy that makes the opposing head coach go for it on 4th down when he shouldn't do it, because he doesn't want to punt the football and give the ball back to him with 2 minutes to play and the game on the line.

Matt Ryan fits this criteria. He checks all the boxes.

This post season, playoff record, superbowl nonsense has absolutely nothing to do with what caliber of quarterback anybody is. It doesn't just pertain to Matt Ryan.

The kid has to play better in the playoffs, there's no denying that. But so did Peyton Manning his first 6 years in the league before he finally won a playoff game. Except he had a guy like Bill Polian to change the rules so receivers could run free after Ty Law mugged his receivers and picked him off 3 times in the playoffs.

Steve Young, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Phil Simms, etc.. on and on. There's a truck load of HOF and elite quarterbacks who hadn't won a playoff game in their first 4 seasons.

Aaron Rodgers would be out of the league had he went to Atlanta and started from day 1. The guy went to a team that was already superbowl caliber and sat the bench for 3 years behind a Hall of Fame quarterback.

Good job Green Bay.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Perhaps.. but through the looking glass when it comes to having a winner's mentality, it's pretty clear the choice should have been: Flacco >> Ryan.

(I know it kind of sucks that Flacco has had all the success for a more modest offense to cloud the formerly 1:1 comparison, but again anyone who's not married emotionally to Ryan (or Jake) has to objectively agree that Flacco was the preemptive choice that year if you could do it over. )

No they don't. Joe Flacco throws up more complete clunkers than any 'franchise' quarterback in the league.

He plays for a winner. Surrounded by winners. Who know how to win... and have won... and they were doing it long before Flacco was even in high school

Nobody on Atlanta's team has ever won damn thing.... including that Hall of Fame tight end Tony Gonzalez.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Jake Long is not only the best tackle in the division, but in the entire NFL!

Matt Ryan isn't even in the top 5 QBs in the league....

Consider the fact that Ryan would have been handcuffed in Sparano's offense...ummm yeah, I'll take Jake Long again and again

Not that it matters, but Jake Long isn't the best left tackle in the league. The only place where it's even a delusion is right here on this board with hit-and-run posts like the one you provided here. Nothing at all to back it up.

There's plenty to back up the fact that he isn't.


However, even if he was, it would be completely irrelevant. He'd be another Anthony Munoz, except Long is nowhere close to Munoz.... and Munoz never won anything either.

 

[Krush]

What have Ryan done? he is a decent Qb but he had talent around him, micheal turner and roddy white, darius Norwood, Tony gonalez, those guys pretty good players don't you think.

 

[Vaark]

[/B]



No they don't. Joe Flacco throws up more complete clunkers than any 'franchise' quarterback in the league.

He plays for a winner. Surrounded by winners. Who know how to win... and have won... and they were doing it long before Flacco was even in high school

Nobody on Atlanta's team has ever won damn thing.... including that Hall of Fame tight end Tony Gonzalez.

Sorry Teddy you can't have it both ways: i.e. "look how Matty Ice carried his team during the season, look at the great record he amassed... but look how his now inferior teams let him down when it came to sudden death elimination games with the season on the line... going back to college". I know, it was great when he beat a superior VT team during season in the rain when everyone is slipping and sliding,.. that resonates as valid, eh? , but who'd expect him to actually beat a superior team when it really counts, right? Credit him when he does, but blame others when he doesn't, right?

Now yes, granted maybe like Peyton, Matt will finally also not melt in his 4th PO attempt. If he does, who's to say he doesn't possess the choker gene? If he doesn't he's still 1-3 where the rubber meets the road with yet much to prove.

Say what you will about Flacco, but the bottom line is just that!!!

Love ya bro, but if you cannot acknowledge that in hindsight, Flacco was the best pick in that class, it's tough for you to explain how 3 one and dones with superior talent in 3 out of 4 seasons is, from a fan rooting perspective, preferable to 5 PO wins including 2 in his rookie season with postseasons in every single one of his seasons. :idk:

 

[Doctor Phibes]

I struggle to see how Matt Ryan would have done anything here had we selected him first

He'd be "coached" by David Lee for one thing - that's a major handicap for starters

He'd probably have a Marc Colombo clone at LT as well as at RT and given the way Matty folds when anything goes against him that doesn't bode well

Henne in Atlanta would probably have done quite well

 

[flynryan15]

What have Ryan done? he is a decent Qb but he had talent around him, micheal turner and roddy white, darius Norwood, Tony gonalez, those guys pretty good players don't you think.

Last year with the exception of TE the Dolphins had a good or better weapons in Marshall, Bush, and Bess.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

There was plenty of talk about trading down... maybe even to get Ryan where a lot of folks thought he belonged. It's funny the excuses that Ryan gets since his one-and -done going back to vs VT in his senior year.. he gets credit for great records but doesn't lose any for losing to good teams according to his fans. On the other hand, our own Matt, as in Moore, also lost to the Giants but in a squeaker instead of being shut out and lost another squeaker thanks to the defense to also playoff bound Broncos. Yet no one gives him credit for "almost" being 8-4 without benefit of TC reps instead of 6-6 (incidentally over the last 9 games he had the same 6-3 record as Ice, the only differences is that we didn't play TN, so Ice had one more win against "winning" teams but over that stretch beat teams with a cumulative .310 winning percentage vs Moore beating teams with a .400 winning percentage.. but where's any love for him?)

Pennington gave us the equivalent of football blue balls vs the Ravens.. I don't know if I could have withstood that 2 more times, if we even could have gotten into the playoffs. We should have traded down like there was speculation we would and taken Flacco who again, unless you're emotionally connected to Ryan, turned out to be the BEST selection in the draft. IMO, anyone who in retrospect cannot admit that is not being honest with themselves. :idk:

What is the "one and done" going back to vs. Virginia Tech that you're talking about here? He was 3-0 in bowl games at Boston College against more talented teams and was the MVP.

He lost to a Virginia Tech team in the ACC Championship Game that was loaded with NFL talent. The same loaded VT team that he beat earlier in the season in Blacksburg by leading them back from a deficit, including the game winning 92 yard TD drive with 2 minutes left. He was 1-1 against that Virginia Tech team who they had no business beating in the first place.

It's essentially the same as Jay Cutler at Vanderbilt almost beating a supremely talented Florida Gators team.

 

[TheWalrus]

What is the "one and done" going back to vs. Virginia Tech that you're talking about here? He was 3-0 in bowl games at Boston College against more talented teams and was the MVP.

He lost to a Virginia Tech team in the ACC Championship Game that was loaded with NFL talent. The same loaded VT team that he beat earlier in the season in Blacksburg by leading from a deficit, including leading the game winning 92 yard TD drive with 2 minutes left. He was 1-1 against that Virginia Tech team who they had no business beating in the first place.

It's essentially the same as Jay Cutler at Vanderbilt almost beating a supremely talented Florida Gators team.

Which he followed up by actually beating Tennessee (in Knoxville, I believe).

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Sorry Teddy you can't have it both ways: i.e. "look how Matty Ice carried his team during the season, look at the great record he amassed... but look how his now inferior teams let him down when it came to sudden death elimination games with the season on the line... going back to college". I know, it was great when he beat a superior VT team during season in the rain when everyone is slipping and sliding,.. that resonates as valid, eh? , but who'd expect him to actually beat a superior team when it really counts, right? Credit him when he does, but blame others when he doesn't, right?

Now yes, granted maybe like Peyton, Matt will finally also not melt in his 4th PO attempt. If he does, who's to say he doesn't possess the choker gene? If he doesn't he's still 1-3 where the rubber meets the road with yet much to prove.

Say what you will about Flacco, but the bottom line is just that!!!

Love ya bro, but if you cannot acknowledge that in hindsight, Flacco was the best pick in that class, it's tough for you to explain how 3 one and dones with superior talent in 3 out of 4 seasons is, from a fan rooting perspective, preferable to 5 PO wins including 2 in his rookie season with postseasons in every single one of his seasons. :idk:

None of it has any relevance to the caliber of quarterback he is. You're attempting to put too much value on ONE aspect (his postseason record) and completely discrediting the consistency he's played with, and anything else he accomplishes.

You'll turn around in the same breath and completely throw postseason record out of the discussion when it concerns Mark Sanchez. Who although doesn't play with the consistency of Matt Ryan, still statistically out produces any quarterback that Miami has had since Marino's '94 season.

People like you cannot possibly, with good conscious, defend the Chad Henne's, Matt Moore's, John Beck's, etc. the way that you do.... and completely discredit anything and everything that Matt Ryan does as a player simply based off the fact that he hasn't yet won a playoff game. It's downright hypocrisy and you know it. It's not even intelligible hypocrisy.

The difference in the status of his team vs. yours tells you all you need to know about it when you get right down to the brass tacks of it.

Drew Brees lost in the 1st round of the playoffs a couple years ago to a team with a losing record.

 

[Vaark]

None of it has any relevance to the caliber of quarterback he is. You're attempting to put too much value on ONE aspect (his postseason record) and completely discrediting the consistency he's played with, and anything else he accomplishes.

You'll turn around in the same breath and completely throw postseason record out of the discussion when it concerns Mark Sanchez. Who although doesn't play with the consistency of Matt Ryan, still statistically out produces any quarterback that Miami has had since Marino's '94 season.

People like you cannot possibly, with good conscious, defend the Chad Henne's, Matt Moore's, John Beck's, etc. the way that you do.... and completely discredit anything and everything that Matt Ryan does as a player simply based off the fact that he hasn't yet won a playoff game. It's downright hypocrisy and you know it. It's not even intelligible hypocrisy.

The difference in the status of his team vs. yours tells you all you need to know about it when you get right down to the brass tacks of it.

Drew Brees lost in the 1st round of the playoffs a couple years ago to a team with a losing record.

Sorry Ted, but until he can at least do as well as Matt Moore did against those very same Giants, no matter how well the sometimes Iceman fares in season, when it comes to going for the gold, until proven otherwise there's every reason to label him the "QB equivalent of blue balls " :idk:

Oh and in 09 I did charts and stuff including finances connected with the efficacy of having taken Flacco @18 so this is not a new song I'm singing.. at all. If anything, the subsequent seasons bore me out. It's like someone I know who apparently isn't a great worker but comes up with excuses about his various companies everytime he's "laid off." IMO, I can understand once him being the victim of circumstances, however, after 3 or 4 times of rationalizations or excuses, it doesn't take a weatherman to know which way the wind was actually blowing.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Sorry Ted, but until he can at least do as well as Matt Moore did against those very same Giants, no matter how well the sometimes Iceman fares in season, when it comes to going for the gold, until proven otherwise there's every reason to label him the "QB equivalent of blue balls " :idk:

Oh and in 09 I did charts and everything connected with finances connected with the efficacy of having taken Flacco @18 so this is not a new song I'm singing.. at all. If anything, the subsequent seasons bore me out.

Playoff record isn't what determines whether a quarterback is elite or not. There's no way around it.

It's simply a talking point for trying to seperate all-time greats and rank them accordingly. Thus why Marino doesn't get the credit he deserves. Same for Moon, Tarkenton, Fouts, and the like.

Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, etc... none of these guys were elite quarterbacks. But they all have something that Marino, Fouts, Tarkenton, and Moon don't have.

Just like there's quarterbacks in the NFL right now that have playoff wins that Matt Ryan doesn't.... but they're not the quarterback that he is. As his career continues to unfold, it bears me out. And every year you will probably have some flash in the pan waiting in your back pocket and point to him as a guy better than Matt Ryan. We can do this until he retires.

It should be obvious to you that playoff record is a direct reflection of much more than the quarterback. They'll all vouch for me... including Aaron Rodgers.

 

[Finland]

Talk to me when he wins somethin after the regular season...

I think he is better than any QB we have had. You can use the post season thing to hard as a Miami fan. You know, like Marino never had a ring from his post season persuits. How many times did Elway fail before winning more in the post season too. Doesn't matter though, because it surely has been talked about enough. Tonight we give us something new to discuss!

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

The Matt Moore/Matt Ryan line you keep dropping is completely untouchable, Vaark. You know better.