More analysis that Matt Ryan, not Jake Long, should’ve been the pick in 2008

[flynryan15]

Not to mention he's lost to the Super Bowl reps/winners each time in very close games. Meanwhile, Long helped us score 9 total offseason points in the same time frame....

Long had a great view of T. Suggs that game! I know I know premier pash rushers do that to LTs. Ware, Williams, Abraham, Suggs, etc....

 

[Vaark]

Not to mention he's lost to the Super Bowl reps/winners each time in very close games. Meanwhile, Long helped us score 9 total offseason points in the same time frame....

Again, hindsight's a rare luxury, but with it, don't you think the Falcons would have tried to rent Matt Moore for that PO shutout game the Giants pitched against him?

 

[Gonzo]

Again, hindsight's a rare luxury, but with it, don't you think the Falcons would have tried to rent Matt Moore for that PO shutout game the Giants pitched against him?

I suppose it's hindsight for some. Are you referring to 2011? Was that the year Long got us to 6-10? Or was it 6-3?

 

[Vaark]

I suppose it's hindsight for some. Are you referring to 2011? Was that the year Long got us to 6-10? Or was it 6-3?

Hindsight is just that: a luxury, and that's the point. Whether you think Long was the correct pick or were championing Ryan, unless you're emotionally attached to your opinion, in the imaginary world of "Mulligans" if, through the looking glass, we had a chance for a "do-over," anyone who's objective and not parsing stats as excuses for flagrant failures would have to admit that Flacco would have been the most appropriate and successful pick. :idk:

 

[67Stang]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Whaaaaaaaaa We didn't select Matt Ryan 4 years ago and got stuck with sucky Jake Long....whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Someone get me a tissue!

 

[Gonzo]

Hindsight is just that: a luxury, and that's the point. Whether you think Long was the correct pick or were championing Ryan, unless you're emotionally attached to your opinion, in the imaginary world of "Mulligans" if, through the looking glass, we had a chance for a "do-over," anyone who's objective and not parsing stats as excuses for flagrant failures would have to admit that Flacco would have been the most appropriate and successful pick. :idk:

Flacco or Ryan would have been better picks than an LT, though Ryan faced far stiffer competition in college and warranted the pick far more. That's not hindsight. Either way you pick the QB over LT. Every time.

Most have come to terms with the fact that we screwed up not taking Rodgers. Isn't it about time we admit that we messed up going LT over QB? How many more years does he have to bring his team to the playoffs while we sit at home before people finally admit that it was a mistake?

 

[PYRO]

Not to mention he's lost to the Super Bowl reps/winners each time in very close games. Meanwhile, Long helped us score 9 total offseason points in the same time frame....

Arizona Close Game but he was against Aging Warner on last parade and was out scored....Greenbay they were stomped (48-21) and against the Giants?! Really?! 24-2 is not "close" It has progressively gotten worse

 

[michaelscott]

Long >Ryan. Let's say we did take ryan, we'd be one and done in the playoffs, he hasn't won Anything with a great supporting cast.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Vaark]

Flacco or Ryan would have been better picks than an LT, though Ryan faced far stiffer competition in college and warranted the pick far more. That's not hindsight. Either way you pick the QB over LT. Every time.

Most have come to terms with the fact that we screwed up not taking Rodgers. Isn't it about time we admit that we messed up going LT over QB? How many more years does he have to bring his team to the playoffs while we sit at home before people finally admit that it was a mistake?

Perhaps.. but through the looking glass when it comes to having a winner's mentality, it's pretty clear the choice should have been: Flacco >> Ryan.

(I know it kind of sucks that Flacco has had all the success for a more modest offense to cloud the formerly 1:1 comparison, but again anyone who's not married emotionally to Ryan (or Jake) has to objectively agree that Flacco was the preemptive choice that year if you could do it over. )

 

[Gonzo]

Arizona Close Game but he was against Aging Warner on last parade and was out scored....Greenbay they were stomped (48-21) and against the Giants?! Really?! 24-2 is not "close" It has progressively gotten worse

He got outgunned by a great offense in the Cardinals (I do like how you try to downplay how good they were. It's easy to forget what good offense looks like as a Phins fan) in his rookie season with the support of a team that had the 3rd overall pick just the year before? Yeah, that kid totally sucked. An LT would have won that game for them, amirite?

Then he lost to the eventual Super Bowl champion Packers, who had another QB we passed on leading a stellar offense with the help of the 5th best defense? Again, shocking.

And finally, the Super Bowl champion Giants, with a defense that makes Tom Brady look like a bitch. Again, shocking.

No doubt any Falcons fan you ask would give anything to go back and be able to choose an LT over Ryan.

 

[Gonzo]

Perhaps.. but through the looking glass when it comes to having a winner's mentality, it's pretty clear the choice should have been: Flacco >> Ryan.

(I know it kind of sucks that Flacco has had all the success for a more modest offense to cloud the formerly 1:1 comparison, but again anyone who's not married emotionally to Ryan (or Jake) has to objectively agree that Flacco was the preemptive choice that year if you could do it over. )

I'm not talking do over. Ryan was the pick then. Your argument would make sense if I hadn't wanted Ryan at the time. I'm only arguing what was available at that pick at that time. Flacco wasn't in the discussion because of his level of competition. That being said, I was absolutely hoping he would fall to us in the second round after we botched the 1st pick. Not sure why you keep talking about hindsight.

 

[Cumar]

This kind of feels like beating a dead horse at this point, but NFL Films executive producer Greg Cosell has a great column out today about the most valuable positions in today’s NFL.Cosell writes that quarterback, pass rusher and cornerback are the three most important positions, and that a good quarterback can mask the inefficiencies of his offensive line. The Dolphins, of course, took Long over Ryan, and while Long has been named to four straight Pro Bowls, the Dolphins are just 31-33 in his four seasons with only one playoff berth. Ryan, meanwhile, has led the Falcons to the playoffs in three of his four seasons.As Cosell writes:Think about this: the past four Super Bowl-winning left tackles were David Diehl (a former fifth-round pick at guard), Chad Clifton (second round), Jermon Bushrod (fourth round) and Max Starks (third round). The quarterbacks on those championship teams were Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees and Ben Roethlisberger, each likely on anyone’s short list of the top quarterbacks in the NFL.We can debate how well those tackles played in those given seasons, but there’s a larger context. Is there a correlation between the quarterback position and the left tackle position? Can the argument be made that left tackle decreases in relative importance the better the quarterback, and is therefore less of a priority? Last season, Marshall Newhouse, a fifth-round pick in 2010, started 10 games at left tackle for the Packers. He struggled individually much of the season. It had little impact on Rodgers’ efficiency, or the overall performance of Green Bay’s offense.The elite quarterbacks camouflage and compensate for offensive line deficiencies in many ways. They do it before the snap of the ball with their understanding of defensive pressure schemes and the pass protection adjustments that must then result. They do it after the snap with their decision making, their advanced sense of timing and anticipation, and their ability to move in the pocket to minimize and negate the pass rushhttp://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydolphin/2012/04/12/miami-dolphins-notebook-cameron-wake-continues-to-sit-out-while-dolphins-check-out-small-school-players/

Here we go again. If Matt Ryan performed at the level of Eli, Rodgers, Brady, Roeth, over the past 3 years, I could see where this argument is worth bringing back up. Unfortunately for Matt Ryan, he hasn't performed as well as those guys. The jury is still truly out on whether Matt Ryan can be a super bowl QB b/c frankly he hasn't done much in the playoffs since coming into the league. Nobody is going to argue that QB is less important than left tackle, the argument is whether Jake Long was worth more than Matt Ryan and there has been no indication that the Dolphins were wrong.

 

[Vaark]

I'm not talking do over. Ryan was the pick then. Your argument would make sense if I hadn't wanted Ryan at the time. I'm only arguing what was available at that pick at that time. Flacco wasn't in the discussion because of his level of competition. That being said, I was absolutely hoping he would fall to us in the second round after we botched the 1st pick. Not sure why you keep talking about hindsight.

There was plenty of talk about trading down... maybe even to get Ryan where a lot of folks thought he belonged. It's funny the excuses that Ryan gets since his one-and -done going back to vs VT in his senior year.. he gets credit for great records but doesn't lose any for losing to good teams according to his fans. On the other hand, our own Matt, as in Moore, also lost to the Giants but in a squeaker instead of being shut out and lost another squeaker thanks to the defense to also playoff bound Broncos. Yet no one gives him credit for "almost" being 8-4 without benefit of TC reps instead of 6-6 (incidentally over the last 9 games he had the same 6-3 record as Ice, the only differences is that we didn't play TN, so Ice had one more win against "winning" teams but over that stretch beat teams with a cumulative .310 winning percentage vs Moore beating teams with a .400 winning percentage.. but where's any love for him?)

Pennington gave us the equivalent of football blue balls vs the Ravens.. I don't know if I could have withstood that 2 more times, if we even could have gotten into the playoffs. We should have traded down like there was speculation we would and taken Flacco who again, unless you're emotionally connected to Ryan, turned out to be the BEST selection in the draft. IMO, anyone who in retrospect cannot admit that is not being honest with themselves. :idk:

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Last I looked John Harbaugh was named Ravens coach Jan 08, so wouldn't that make him a rookie head coach and of course make Joe Flacco also a rookie who not only made the playoffs with a rookie HC, but went 3 games deep into it?

I haven't researched it, but I'd speculate it's fairly likely that Flacco is the only rookie QB who made the POs in every one of his 1st 4 years and the only one that won 5 playoff games in those 4 years. If not there haven't been many. :idk: Harbaugh and Flacco drove a 5-11 2007 team that actually was so god awful that they lost to the winless Fins, 3 games into the playoffs.

Hiring Harbaugh instead of promoting Ryan and trading up for Flacco who through the hindsight of a rear view mirror would deserve to be the #1 pick flat out, makes Ozzie even more of a genius IMO.

Joe Flacco didn't start from day 1, that's the difference.

Don't worry though, we'll definitely get around to Flacco too.

Every year you find a different quarterback as being superior to Matt Ryan...last year it was Josh Freeman.

 

[flynryan15]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Whaaaaaaaaa We didn't select Matt Ryan 4 years ago and got stuck with sucky Jake Long....whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Someone get me a tissue!

Yep and 4 years later the Falcons are relevant while we are once again rebuilding! I don't care how great Jake Long in his position and skill set does not takeover a game!