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o-gun to be on espn news in 5 minutes

inFINSible said:
By holding out he's attempting an end around the part of the agreement that stipulates what salary a RFA can earn.

But, I do see your point.

When it comes right down to it though, I'm a fan of the Dolphins, not the "players". I want the Dolphins to succeed, not 0-gun. ANY player who puts himself ahead of my team, is the "villian" in my eyes. Plain and simple.
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You see an end around, and I see a CBA that gives the teams and players several options by mutual assent.

You get to the heart of what I think is just so wrong about this. The team knows it has the support of the fans in these situations, so it puts them at a big publicity advantage. I really wish we would all just stay the hell out of it and see where these people end up when all is said and done.
 
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Dol-Fan Dupree said:
I hope Ogun realizes there are deals that helps him and helps the team that generally put the player in a better position down the road. With a huge bloated contract, one bad year can lose a player millions of dollars.
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I agree with this wholeheartedly. Somebody mentioned that Surtain and his agent took a realistic deal instead of one of these silly ones that so many of the players get teams to trump up (like Madison's deal). I agree that it's the best course.

When I say Wistrom money, I'm looking mainly at the signing bonus and the years on the deal he is likely to see. I'm sure that if we knew the truth about it, that's what RS or any other competant agent would also be looking at...
 
Jimmy James said:
Do you know how much (or how little) of that money Wale probably sees? Can you even imagine the hangers on he must have looking for a cut? You must be amazed that MC Hammer went bankrupt if you don't get that $1.8 million to a guy in Wale's situation isn't like a normal guy saving up money and ending up with that amount.

Let's say that you make $60,000 a year. It's not like you can't put gas in your Accord or feed your family on that. Should we be against you if you seek a raise you feel you deserve up to $70,000 a year? It's not like your boss is asking you to go to the file room and make $8 an hour.
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Blah Blah Blah Blah. I feel so sorry for "a guy in Wale's situation." Whatever.

And comparing my measly salary and my life with Wale's is stupidity. I do want a raise but I am not going to the media and bad-mouthing my employer and saying I am going to sit out the first 8 months of the year and then come back for the last 4 and to hell with the productivity or how my department might suffer.

And by the way it's a Cavalier, not an Accord :D
 
Are you not doing those things because you choose not to do them, or are you not doing them because they are not options for you? It's awfully hard to know for sure, isn't it? If you or I called a press conference, do you really think anybody would show?

BTW, mine is a Maxima. :D
 
Jimmy James said:
I agree with this wholeheartedly. Somebody mentioned that Surtain and his agent took a realistic deal instead of one of these silly ones that so many of the players get teams to trump up (like Madison's deal). I agree that it's the best course.

When I say Wistrom money, I'm looking mainly at the signing bonus and the years on the deal he is likely to see. I'm sure that if we knew the truth about it, that's what RS or any other competant agent would also be looking at...
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I am actually the guy who posted it. Sorry, I was just tooting my own horn.
 
But's that's kinda my point. You can't compare our lives to his. But he should realize how fortunate he is to be doing what he does. And he just comes acroos as a very selfish me-first guy when he whines and bellyaches like he's been doing lately.Not to mention that he has only had 1 great year. Let's see him do it again before we call great and put him in the same catergory as JT. Take the 1.8 get amother dozen sacks or whatever and your money will come.
Besides he should be *****ing to the NFLPA, they are the ones that agreed to a CBA with transition and franchise tags and whatnot. The Dolphins are only playing by the rules, Wale seems to think the rules don't preclude (is that the right word?) to him.
 
Jimmy James said:
I really don't know that your judgment on the timing is correct. Wale knows what he wants, and it seems pretty damn clear to me that there is no way he is getting it with the Dolphins barring an amazing reverse front office philosophy. Wale is not gettnig Wistrom money here. If that's really what he wants, he has nothing to lose by doing what he is doing.
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What does it serve? Is Miami going to cut him because he goes to the media? Is another team going to offer up a better trade because he goes to the media? And how do you know what has been said TO Ogun by the Front Office? It's quite possible that they are just looking to see what they need on/after June 1st. Once that gets done, the money is freed up to take care of Chambers and THEN Ogun. What he IS doing is giving himself an added problem if he DOES hold out. Teams aren't going to like the hold-out to start with, and would like it that much less if it's followed by vitriole. Casting yourself in a negative light doesn't serve the player...ever.
 
Jimmy James said:
Do you know how much (or how little) of that money Wale probably sees? Can you even imagine the hangers on he must have looking for a cut? You must be amazed that MC Hammer went bankrupt if you don't get that $1.8 million to a guy in Wale's situation isn't like a normal guy saving up money and ending up with that amount.

Let's say that you make $60,000 a year. It's not like you can't put gas in your Accord or feed your family on that. Should we be against you if you seek a raise you feel you deserve up to $70,000 a year? It's not like your boss is asking you to go to the file room and make $8 an hour.
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Big difference. A musician doesn't make NEARLY the money people think he makes unless he owns the rights to his songs. Generally the only real money they make is from tours. A football player however is responsible for his agents commision and his union dues. After that, the money is his. If he choses to blow that money on a crew, or stupid expenses, why should anyone give a crap? I'm not responsible for his idiocy if he choses to surround himself with leeches. The guy has been living off 500k, so somehow he's going to starve to death by tripling his income? Give me a freaking break! Ogun has performed, and deserves a raise. He hasn't earned any sympathy however. He also hasn't earned the right to badmouth the team/staff/players when everyone has been pretty darned good to him. He's offered 1.8 mil? Drew takes 7% at most and I don't know what NFLPA dues are but they can't be more than 1%. So Ogun still takes home more than 1.6 million worst case scenario. How tragic.
 
pigskinguy said:
But's that's kinda my point. You can't compare our lives to his. But he should realize how fortunate he is to be doing what he does. And he just comes acroos as a very selfish me-first guy when he whines and bellyaches like he's been doing lately.Not to mention that he has only had 1 great year. Let's see him do it again before we call great and put him in the same catergory as JT. Take the 1.8 get amother dozen sacks or whatever and your money will come.
Besides he should be *****ing to the NFLPA, they are the ones that agreed to a CBA with transition and franchise tags and whatnot. The Dolphins are only playing by the rules, Wale seems to think the rules don't preclude (is that the right word?) to him.
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Well, if you can't compare his life to ours, you really can't compare his financial situation either. I think questioning Wale's realization that he is fortunate to do what he does based on this is a bit premature. He hasn't said anything to negate a presumption that he loves playing this game. It has all been about how the game has to be balanced with getting paid.

I really don't get this tendency to discount 2002, either. 9.5 sacks is a damn good year in my book. In fact, it is more than Grant Wistrom has had in any year but one.

Wale hasn't done anything that suggests he thinks he is outside the rules. The rules don't cover the players talking to the press, and they actually endorse the 11/6 holdout strategy as a legitimate way to get a year of service in. Both sides in this negotiation are bound by the rules. If either one strays from them, I'll be the first guy to come down on them. Until then, I say we let them negotiate.
 
PhinPhan1227 said:
What does it serve? Is Miami going to cut him because he goes to the media? Is another team going to offer up a better trade because he goes to the media? And how do you know what has been said TO Ogun by the Front Office? It's quite possible that they are just looking to see what they need on/after June 1st. Once that gets done, the money is freed up to take care of Chambers and THEN Ogun. What he IS doing is giving himself an added problem if he DOES hold out. Teams aren't going to like the hold-out to start with, and would like it that much less if it's followed by vitriole. Casting yourself in a negative light doesn't serve the player...ever.
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How do YOU know what has been said between these parties? This June 1 stuff is speculation at best. How can we possibly be certain that we can sign Wale with that money if we're also going to do as much 6/2 signing as we can? What if we go hog wild? That's little reason why we can't take care of Wale now if you believe we're going to use restraint. It only complicates matters that the team also has to deal with Chambers. What if he breaks the bank?

Teams don't care about holdouts. I didn't see Duce Staley waste any time going to a nice situation for him with the Steelers despite holding out on a CONTRACT (which is far worse than what Wale is doing). I also didn't see Dallas waste any time going after Keyshawn Johnson despite far more significant problems than just a RFA holdout. Of course, they also went after Joey Galloway in the most recent of these situations. If Wale hurts himself by holding out, it will be due to lack of conditiioning/playing time for so long (which could lead to injury IMHO) or by allowing the Dolphins to establish that other guys can do what he does because he is to an extent the product of our system.
 
PhinPhan1227 said:
Big difference. A musician doesn't make NEARLY the money people think he makes unless he owns the rights to his songs. Generally the only real money they make is from tours. A football player however is responsible for his agents commision and his union dues. After that, the money is his. If he choses to blow that money on a crew, or stupid expenses, why should anyone give a crap? I'm not responsible for his idiocy if he choses to surround himself with leeches. The guy has been living off 500k, so somehow he's going to starve to death by tripling his income? Give me a freaking break! Ogun has performed, and deserves a raise. He hasn't earned any sympathy however. He also hasn't earned the right to badmouth the team/staff/players when everyone has been pretty darned good to him. He's offered 1.8 mil? Drew takes 7% at most and I don't know what NFLPA dues are but they can't be more than 1%. So Ogun still takes home more than 1.6 million worst case scenario. How tragic.
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I never said anything about stupid expenses. He has a family just like everybody else does. Have you considered who would be contacting you if you won the lottery? I suggest you do so.
 
pigskinguy said:
Well he doesn't mind sitting out 3/4 of the season..........Now that is love of the game I tell ya
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I don't think this is a fair representation of his stance on this at all. If Wale didn't mind sitting out, he wouldn't be so eager to be traded. I imagine that it kills him to miss the time, but he feels that the risk of injury isn't worth the rate of pay, particularly when that pay is so closed-ended. Wale has been told he would be taken care of, and he wants to be taken care of. How can you people blame him for that?
 
I don't really blame him for that, more for the way he is going about it. He is really coming across as a whiner and a malcontent. The kind of player teams don't need contaminating the locker room. Trust me it pains me to be coming down on Ogun the way I am because I like him, but he is really rubbing me the wrong way with his current antics.
 
How can you come to a conclusion like this when you're not sure what is going on between him and the team? What if the team told him that he was going to either take the $1.8 million and leave next year or hold out and leave next year? That isn't at all within the spirit of what Wale has been advised, and I would think he would have every right to be pissed off. Why can't we reserve judgment until we know what is going on?
 
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