Geauxfins said:
Ok, thanks, without having to try to go through and follow all of my convoluted math, can you explain why you think there is no way a team can lose money.....do you have insight into where the breakpoint is on how much they can pay the players(56% of total revenue, 60% of total revenue, 94% of total revenue? before the lose money? And if it's just a guess or based on fact (somewhere in one of these threads someone pointed out the Dolphins lost a few million last year and made a few the year before, but I have no idea of the legitimacy of those numbers), can you point out the link or whatever where the facts come from. Also, if everyone really believes there is no way for a team to lose money, why doesn't everyone buy as much stock in the packers as they can (or did I hear it is limited somewhere). And if you can't lose money, why doesn't everyone that can afford it buy a team?
Ok, first the "how do I know"... I do have insight gleaned from research, but it is not "fact". Based on facts, absolutely, but I am not a team accountant.
Several ways to know...
1. Up to this point, no owner has lost money overall. In strict operating cost vs. direct revenue, accounting can show a loss (baseball teams and hollywood studios are famous for this) but NOT overall. they like to figure this out without counting number two on this list, for example.
2. Each team gets 100 million a year just to start with. That's higher than their player salaries already. And that doesn't count all the other forms of income.
3. The new tv deal starts this year which is worth 3.7 BILLION a year. Alone, that pretty much covers the salary cap for all teams. And merchandising is another huge cash cow, of course. And tickets, etc.
4. Owners talk about profit/loss and never, just like baseball owners, mention the skyrocketing value of their franchises. i don't begrudge them their investment paying off so handsomely one bit... but I do find it disingenuous to not count that when claiming the purses are tight.
And it is not insignifigant. Franchise values overall went up 12% just last year. No matter when you bought the team, you could already sell it for much more than you paid. Snyder bought the redskins for 750 million in 1999 and it is already worth 1.3 BILLION. The players would have to be asking for 80% to begin to cut into that kind of profit.
huzienga bought the Dolphins for 138 million in 1994... and now they are worth 856 million. Who could ask for a better 12 year return?
5. The player's percentage is based on revenue... so in the extremely unlikely even that revenue falls their take would fall, too. So it would have to be a nosedive to really take it below costs. It's not like they have to pay a fixed amount and have to panic about making that payroll.
6. This is not forever. For a long time, the NFL has had the worst deal for its players in all the big sports. By FAR. This absolutely had to be corrected.
They can correct in increments, like they are asking for now, or they can do it in an armageddon scenario that blows up the cap and non-guarantees.
In the extremely unlikely event that the NFL completely loses it's value, they can correct it in the next agreement. The owners have been printing money for years, nothing wrong with the players getting a bigger cut.
Let's see what else did you ask...
For info check out Forbes. They do a write up every year... a write up, buy the way, that does not include all income - and still shows massive profits.
And people fight like dogs over buying teams. Ovitz has been trying for years. It is an exclusive club that the owners control admittance to. No franchise could not find a buyer tomorrow if they wanted to.
Edit... it looks like I was late with some of this. Got called away mid-reply.
Couple extra things:
Forbes is good at franchise value, bad at franchise income. They have no way of knowing and are NOT considering all sources of revenue.
I don't know there history with the Dolphins, but I have been following it closely with the Mariners, a team I have a much better knowledge of their finances. Forbes can only be relied on for franchise values and things like public stadium deals, etc.
Edited to also add that Great Wade has a better idea of the Dolphins specific situation than any of us. A very specific perpective, but better concrete knowledge.
