Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by fanfin, Feb 25, 2013.
Ezekiel Ansah BYU
Dion Jordan Oregon
I would like Dion Jordan, but we need a WR much more, and Dion will not be there in the second. In fact I don't think he will be there when we pick in the 1st. I think Chip Kelly may try to take him when they pick in the 1st.
I like Mingo as well, and I'm gonna tell u right now, don't be surprised if Margus Hunt starts getting buzz as a top 20 pick. The kid's athleticism is off the charts.
Drafting for need almost always leads to failure. Just because something isnt a hole today(and Defensive End is actually a hole for us now) doesnt mean it wont be tommorow. Solid receivers can be found in the second or third round, the only way a defensive end falls is if he is a flawed player. Not to mention good wideouts hit free agency more often than good pass rushers.
We know have a franchise quarterback. With such a quarterback, we shouldnt be picking high in the draft anytime soon. We need to take the chance we are given to shore up a critical position for years to come. Wideout can be filled in free agency or in the second round. Our pass rush cant.
Kid?? He's going to be 26 when the season starts
No Bjorn Werner? He's probably the best DE in the draft. Sure he isn't "special" but he's solid and he's a day one starter opposite Cam Wake. He'll see a Pro Bowl or 2 in his career . . . and who knows, with Wake opposite of him he may add a little more to his pass rushing arsenal. You jump on him if he slides to 12 if you ask me . . . although I have been a big Dion Jordan fan for a long time now.
If Jordan is there at 12, i would take him over any wr. I'm not a fan of Ansah. He doesn't have good stamina, he's inconsistent and he gives up on plays...ALOT. he's only so high because of his size and athleticism but this guy has bust written all over him. Who's that guy the jets drafted a few years back? Thats him all over again.
I agree! I like Moore but he had a pretty rough combine! I like Margus hunt in the 2nd but he had a really good combine so I wont be surprised if he moves up into the lat first.
We have a 'Bjorn Warner' in Odrick, why waste a pick ?
Doubt it. Everyone already knew Margus was gonna test out of this world so this just reinforces that opinion. His game tape & lack of position is what will keep him as a day two prospect.
Not that he'll go in the first round but there's always that one idiot in the league that will draft a 29 year old QB in the first round & everyone involved be without a job come the next draft.
Don't see any comparison's at all. Vernon Gholston just did a crazy amount of reps and had a good 40 time. Ansah has played football for only 2 years. He's inconsistent because he hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential. Give up on plays? I've seen him chase down WR's just as hard as he rushes the passer. The same things were said about Aldon Smith and JPP but 49ers and Giants are pretty happy.
:lol: And we have a Dee Milliner already in Jimmy Wilson.
Daniel Jeremiah just said no way Ansah is there in 10-15 range..........
I'm very high on Alex Okafor out of Texas. I think he'd be a great pick in the second round, if he lasts that far. He's very well spoken and is a solid, versatile player. He has experience playing every position on the defensive line and he can most definitely get after the quarterback. Not only that, he's pretty good at stopping the run as well. He'd be able to come in right away and start.
Sensationalism bro... he really said he spoke to a team picking 15 to 20 and they said he wont be there.
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Not a great comparison at all IMO. Werner is a traditional 4-3 end while Odrick is a 4-3 dt first, followed by a 3-4 de and is versatile enough to play 4-3 DE.
Odrick doesn't get enough credit on here.. He is very solid against the run and in nickel what we play over 50% of the game anyway he is a DT...... A 20lb lighter Odrick will bring in 7-10 sacks... The question is, is Vernon good enough to keep his job as Starting Nickel DE
I don't agree with you at all on this assessment. The guy is raw as can be (didn't even start a full ncaa season) but I never saw a lack of stamina or drive. I attended every home game and quite a few away games and I would say he was the opposite and quite consistent. He's only going to get better and better as he figures out the game. This doesn't mean he's worth a 12 overall pick
I think it speaks well of Jared Odrick that people feel they can let a solid DT like Randy Starks walk because there is a confidence that Odrick could step in and fill his shoes without much of, if any drop off. His best position is at 4-3 DT and if you kick him inside and bring in a solid 4-3 DE like Werner . . . you have improved your defense IMO.
When speaking on DE's in this draft, it isn't a great conversation unless Werner is in it. These freaky athletes are there every year . . . sometimes its good just to have solid and consistent and Werner gives you that. Zach Thomas wasn't a superstar athlete . . . but he was solid and consistent and put up a borderline HOF career. I'll take some of that at every position.
Werner got owned by the RT for the Canes. Pass in the 1st. Mingo is only 240# and may be too small for a DE?
No Damontre Moore? He's arguably THE best player in this draft. AT least you didn't say Werner, he's not even a 1st rounder IMO.
But it doesn't translate to the field for Hunt
Margus = Mamula 2.0?
You're being sarcastic right?
12 reps at 225lbs though?
I'm 43, 6'0 - 192lbs and I can throw up 225 13 times.
Kid is either lazy, weak, or just didn't give a **** about his draft status. No way a big man like that should have 12 reps.
So Mike Mayock says something about Seantrell Henderson keeping Werner in check and now he's a nobody? Truth is, Seantrell is one of the most talented OT's in college football . . . he was the #1 recruit coming out of high school a few years ago and he is inconsistent as hell . . . but he has the ability. Nobody is saying Werner is Demarcus Ware . . . but when speaking on DE's in this class he needs to be in the conversation and IMO he's worth the 12 pick in this draft. You are getting a day one starter opposite of Cam Wake if he gets drafted . . . a 3 down guy who can hold up against the run and give you 8 to 10 sacks early in his career. Sure maybe the upside isn't as high as Ziggy or Margus Hunt . . . but those guys aren't the football player Werner is now and there are no guarantees they ever will be.
Even though he had a rough combine, he's still a top 10 pick. I've watched a TON of tape on him, and his combine results don't add up to when he steps on the field. When he's on the field, he's relentless, he just needs to learn how to wrap up tackle more. Also, keep in mind, he's only 20 years old as well, 21 in September, I'm 20, 21 in June and I know I'd be nervous in front of all these scouts, he'll be fine.
Arm length plays a factor, but you are right, that isn't an excuse for 12 reps . . . but it speaks more to work ethic in addition to his lack of strength. You have time to prepare for the combine and many guys can get their rep count up in a short period of time . . . it's almost like Moore diddn't even bother.
---------- Post added at 06:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 PM ----------
So you crap on Werner but them claim Moore as possibly the best player in the draft.
Atleast I know who I'm dealing with now
I'm not saying Werner is terrible, but I just don't think he's a 1st rounder, and Moore is still a Top 10 in my eyes. I watched a decent amount of tape on Werner, and his motor runs hot and cold. When he thinks he has the play, he'll try and make it, but when he doesn't he gives up on it, whereas Moore will chase the player down. Werner had the potential to make some good tackles, and stop people for minimal gains instead of the 7-14 yard gains they became. Werner had the angle and didn't even try to tackle. Moore chased down a RB 50 yards to make the tackle, so there's questions about Werner's motor. Moore, he has a nonstop one, I mean Moore is 6'6 248. No excuse as to why he did 12 bench reps, but he's still the better overall player.
The biggest thing with Werner in regards to this "lack of a motor" is the fact that when he is out of a play, he doesn't do enough to attempt to get back into the play, and that is where I can see this hot and cold motor argument come from . . . but I think it is a bit overblown. He's a hard worker a guy who has shown a nonstop motor and he's the type of player I have confidence that on the next level he won't get away with those instances and coaches will get him out of that habit quickly. But the work ethic is more than there.
Moore is highly overrated . . . and his numbers today lead me to believe he has a very questionable work ethic. He had great stats this year, no denying that, and I honestly haven't watched alot of tape on him but the times that I have seen him he wasn't blowing by people off the edge and he was held ineffective quite a bit. He's a guy I do wanna look at some more, but after today I'm not sure I'm even going to bother . . . Mayock pretty much thrashed him.
Billack and Caserly still have Moore as a top 10 pick. The combine results were bad and it hurt his stock, but it doesn't mean he still isn't a top 15 player.
Jared allen only did 225 13 times and he's one of the best in the league....
Billick is an offensive guy and Casserly is probably the most clueless guy on NFLN. Dude doesn't even watch half of the guys he gives his opinion on and has been quoted as saying "I haven't watched the tape . . . but" on prospects before. Casserly probably has a stat sheet in front of him and making his mock based on that.
Any wonder why this "former GM" is down there doing the 40 times on prospects instead of giving his opinion on the set?
Jordan or Mingo at 12 would be pretty nice.
Yea I've had Jordan at 12 for the longest . . . not so much Mingo, but I wouldn't be disappointed if we drafted him at 12 . . . he definitely adds some explosive pass rushing ability to this defense. Third downs would be fun.
I dont think you can go wrong with jordan or mingo and werner at 12... I havent' gone back to watch anymore ansah stuff after his combine... I always had him pegged late first early second... i may very well be wrong on that. It really doesn't matter I guess.. it only takes one team to fall in love with a guy to make a 2nd rounder turn into a top ten pick nowadays..
I can't get behind any talk of werner not being a first round pick.. that seems like insane talk to me.
I hope werner falls to us, and we double up on carradine later... wake won't be around forever, it'd be nice to have his replacement in the wings.
The scary thing about Bjoern Werner is that he hasn't even been playing football for that long. He's just starting to get the hang of it.
He wasn't even a top 10 pick before his awful combine. He'll be lucky to be picked in the first round
Well a area we both agree on great and I predict that Ireland will go that position in the draft. We will see how many of our free agent we resign first.
Five years total...we would be idiots not to draft him if he falls to 12. He has tremendous upside and is a beast. This crap I keep hearing about this one or that one being better than Werner is straight up ignorance. He is the best 4/3 DE in this class hands down and won't last until the 12th pick.
Werner is also very disciplined, just check out the Orange Bowl to see what I mean. They had him contain the NIU QB all day rather than over pursue. It seemed to have worked out pretty well.
we should take mingo if he gets to us and plug him as a situational rusher opposite wake on passing downs in a 3 point stance...
Is this really your thoughts from watching the tape? Or are you saying it b/c Mayock did?
While the Miami game wasn't Werner's best and Henderson did get the best of him at times, Werner still had his moments. He ran the arc well a few times to rush Morris into a throw and did get into the backfield a few times on Morris. He was also chipped quite a bit and even dropped in coverage. I would gladly take Werner at 12. He has a GREAT first step, evident not only on tape but by his 10 yard time during his 40. He also has good feet. You saw that today during the movement drills and you can see that on tape b/c he's really good at defending the read option. As for his motor, it's fine. Does he not always run down every single play? Yes. But if you watch enough football, you'll see a lot of Dlinemen doing that to conserve energy so they don't gas too quickly and have something left in the tank for the next play since most Dlinemen aren't going to be running down RBs and WRs from behind. I personally hate it, but it's common. His motor on most plays is better than most. He never gives up on a pass rush.
I don't even consider Jordan a DE. The guy is pretty thin and way too small at this point to play DE, other than a situational pass rusher who also plays OLB on 1st and 2nd down. And i'm not sure if his body is built to carry enough weight to make a full-time transition to DE.
He's in better shape than most of the "kids" though. Completely mechanically and kinesiologically sound and his body hasn't taken the beating that the rest of them have.
Ansah might not make it to us. People want to mold him into greatness.
Dude is funny. humble. god fearing.
He said he wants to prove everybody wrong. It wasnt that he said it, it was more that deep eyes humble african look he gave ya after he said it. Its gonna happen.
jordans a 34 olb all the way...needs to play standing up...as for damontre moore no ones taking a 250 lb de that runs 4.9 and does 12 reps at 225 in the top 10...NO ONE
ansah is the big beneficiary after today...dion jordan even with the shoulder someone will pull the trigger very high maybe top 10 even...they're all drooling about his movement skills and upside...and he's one of the few edge rush prospects that has a very high end get off