QB T.J. Yates, North Carolina | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

QB T.J. Yates, North Carolina

LouPhinFan said:
If he's not on either all star roster then that's a shame. But good for us, he fall to the middle rounds.

I'm not opposed to using 2 picks on QBs either. A 1st and a 3rd or 4th, whatever.

Of course that all depends on how the players fall in the draft. I'm not opposed to drafting good defensive players that can help us immediately (Herzlich).
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I like this idea. Especially as it applies to a guy like T.J. Yates. Here's the reason I like it.

One way or another I believe that #15 pick has to be used on a player with great potential, someone like Blaine Gabbert, Cam Newton, Ryan Mallett or Brandon Weeden (if he declares).

If you pair that pick with a T.J. Yates, then what you've done is immediately put pressure on that guy that you drafted with the massive potential. They'll both be rookies, so in many ways the two will be treated the same, and they'll go through the same things. But a guy like Yates is so incredibly studious and detail-oriented...IF you've drafted a guy in the 1st round that has a competitive spirit...then it's going to force him to respond in kind.

I raised this possibility a while ago with respect to the kid out in Boise, Kellen Moore. But I think it also applies to T.J. Yates. If you pair a Yates and Newton, you've got a guy that idolizes Peyton Manning and pays attention to all of the details, sitting side by side in the class room and learning right along side Cam Newton. That's a WIN.
 
ckparrothead said:
I like this idea. Especially as it applies to a guy like T.J. Yates. Here's the reason I like it.

One way or another I believe that #15 pick has to be used on a player with great potential, someone like Blaine Gabbert, Cam Newton, Ryan Mallett or Brandon Weeden (if he declares).

If you pair that pick with a T.J. Yates, then what you've done is immediately put pressure on that guy that you drafted with the massive potential. They'll both be rookies, so in many ways the two will be treated the same, and they'll go through the same things. But a guy like Yates is so incredibly studious and detail-oriented...IF you've drafted a guy in the 1st round that has a competitive spirit...then it's going to force him to respond in kind.

I raised this possibility a while ago with respect to the kid out in Boise, Kellen Moore. But I think it also applies to T.J. Yates. If you pair a Yates and Newton, you've got a guy that idolizes Peyton Manning and pays attention to all of the details, sitting side by side in the class room and learning right along side Cam Newton. That's a WIN.
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I like the Idea of taking two guys but I don't want Newton or Locker. I would be fine with Mallet and Yates. The reason is that Mallet has the arm (he's just immature and kind of a sissy). Putting pressure on him will either cause him to blow up or cause him to reach his potential which is huge. Newton and Locker might be more Mature and have the same size but they don't have the touch on certain routes and they defiantly don't have the arm strength. And they definitely don't have the ability to read defenses. You can put as much pressure as you want on Newton and Locker but they just don't have everything that they need to be great QBs.

If I want a project I want the guy that could end up being Phillip Rivers not Vince Young.
 
Mallett is the only guy I wouldn't bother trying this paired strategy with. It would be a waste. He's not mature enough to handle it properly. He could care less what little late round pick T.J. Yates does that he doesn't do so well, he's the hot shot 1st round pick, the franchise quarterback. I'd be surprised if he got along with Yates at all. He's had issues with teammates in Arkansas. He's had issues with coaches in Arkansas.

Newton and Gabbert are team guys. They don't play the game selfishly the way Mallett does, they don't act selfish off the field, they work hard and they don't question their coaches. You could pair either one of those guys with T.J. Yates and they'd learn something. Newton absolutely throws with touch, better touch than Ryan Mallett, generally speaking. He also has arm strength that is nearly as good, if not just as good. Guys with good arms are guys with good arms. The difference between a Jamarcus Russell arm and a Michael Vick arm is not exactly the difference between a championship and a playoff berth. Arm strength tends to be a "You must be this high to ride this ride" issue, if you've got enough then it's not going to matter if you're Joe Flacco or Matt Ryan...it all comes down to your other attributes. Newton, Gabbert and Locker all have pro arm strength, more than enough.
 
ckparrothead said:
Mallett is the only guy I wouldn't bother trying this paired strategy with. It would be a waste. He's not mature enough to handle it properly. He could care less what little late round pick T.J. Yates does that he doesn't do so well, he's the hot shot 1st round pick, the franchise quarterback. I'd be surprised if he got along with Yates at all. He's had issues with teammates in Arkansas. He's had issues with coaches in Arkansas.

Newton and Gabbert are team guys. They don't play the game selfishly the way Mallett does, they don't act selfish off the field, they work hard and they don't question their coaches. You could pair either one of those guys with T.J. Yates and they'd learn something. Newton absolutely throws with touch, better touch than Ryan Mallett, generally speaking. He also has arm strength that is nearly as good, if not just as good. Guys with good arms are guys with good arms. The difference between a Jamarcus Russell arm and a Michael Vick arm is not exactly the difference between a championship and a playoff berth. Arm strength tends to be a "You must be this high to ride this ride" issue, if you've got enough then it's not going to matter if you're Joe Flacco or Matt Ryan...it all comes down to your other attributes. Newton, Gabbert and Locker all have pro arm strength, more than enough.
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I would love to pair Gabbert with Yates!!!!!!! But I'm beginning to accept the fact that we probably won't go after Gabbert. I just don't see Newton doing anything in the NFL. Maybe I'm missing something but when I watch Cam Newton play and When I watch Jake Locker play I just don't see as much potential as Mallet. Now I do realize that Mallet may not reach his whole potential because of his attitude but I think (and this is just my opinion) that you'd have a better shot at turning a guy with Mallets talent into a great player than turning a guy like Newton/Locker who's talent is largely based upon their ability to run.

In the sugar bowl the two TD passes that Mallet made on touch throws were UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!! You can't teach that type of anticipation and touch. At least that's how I feel.
 
TJ Yates sucks i know personally cause i watch him get owned every year against the Canes
 
justdev7 said:
I would love to pair Gabbert with Yates!!!!!!! But I'm beginning to accept the fact that we probably won't go after Gabbert. I just don't see Newton doing anything in the NFL. Maybe I'm missing something but when I watch Cam Newton play and When I watch Jake Locker play I just don't see as much potential as Mallet. Now I do realize that Mallet may not reach his whole potential because of his attitude but I think (and this is just my opinion) that you'd have a better shot at turning a guy with Mallets talent into a great player than turning a guy like Newton/Locker who's talent is largely based upon their ability to run.

In the sugar bowl the two TD passes that Mallet made on touch throws were UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!! You can't teach that type of anticipation and touch. At least that's how I feel.
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If it was just the attitude with Mallett, I'd be fine with him actually. He'd rub me the wrong way sure, but I'd hope he was just the classic young dude acting like hot sh-t, that grows out of it. Well, I'd hope anyway.

No what scares me about Mallett is a lot more than that. It's his dead feet inside the pocket. That can be something that you never shake, and I think he's come along way just to make the meager improvement on that front that he has made. In the pocket, his feet barely have a pulse, and that leads to problems when he's pressured. He has to break down and try and make the guy miss (which he rarely does), or just get the throw off early, because his feet are too sluggish to create some extra spacing naturally as he feels the flow of the play and the pass rush. And if his feet are dead in the backfield because he needs a level head to see and digest the field properly, that would explain why he's such an incredibly poor decision maker while on the move. He never throws the ball away, ever. He'll throw the ball back over the middle, late, toward a bunch of defenders, before he'll throw it away. But worse, his accuracy is off when he doesn't have his feet set under him and balanced just right. And perhaps even worse than that, there's a good possibility he just doesn't see the field when his head isn't still.

These would be my primary concerns before we even get to the attitude stuff.

Believe it or not, Newton's eyes while on the run are not great. I see him missing guys that he could be throwing the ball to while he's on the run all the time. But he's accurate on the run, and he's just a much more comfortable decision maker under fire and when forced to move. Of course, that all depends on which Cameron Newton we're talking about, because he's made such drastic improvements to his passing skills as the season wore on.
 
I'm telling you if you'd never seen a Cam Newton game and you just watched the Alabama, South Carolina, and Oregon games...the last three games of the year, you'd put Newton legitimately up there with Gabbert and Mallett purely as a passer.
 
I saw South Carolina and Oregon. And I'll admit Cam Newton looked great at times. But I don't see Cam Newton make throws in tight areas. He has the advantage of receivers being open by a few yards. And even in the Oregon game he missed a few wide open guys while standing in the pocket with no pressure. The most obvious was the deep ball to Blake that would have been a TD easily. Once those windows tighten up at the next level he's just not gonna cut it.

And I don't want Ryan Mallet. But I'd rather have Mallet than Newton or Locker.
 
ckparrothead said:
If it was just the attitude with Mallett, I'd be fine with him actually. He'd rub me the wrong way sure, but I'd hope he was just the classic young dude acting like hot sh-t, that grows out of it. Well, I'd hope anyway.

No what scares me about Mallett is a lot more than that. It's his dead feet inside the pocket. That can be something that you never shake, and I think he's come along way just to make the meager improvement on that front that he has made. In the pocket, his feet barely have a pulse, and that leads to problems when he's pressured. He has to break down and try and make the guy miss (which he rarely does), or just get the throw off early, because his feet are too sluggish to create some extra spacing naturally as he feels the flow of the play and the pass rush. And if his feet are dead in the backfield because he needs a level head to see and digest the field properly, that would explain why he's such an incredibly poor decision maker while on the move. He never throws the ball away, ever. He'll throw the ball back over the middle, late, toward a bunch of defenders, before he'll throw it away. But worse, his accuracy is off when he doesn't have his feet set under him and balanced just right. And perhaps even worse than that, there's a good possibility he just doesn't see the field when his head isn't still.

These would be my primary concerns before we even get to the attitude stuff.
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And the really bad thing about this is, I'm CERTAIN than Bobby Petrino and his coaching staff have coached Mallett on this and he STILL doesn't throw the ball away. To me that's a giant red flag that can be seen from the International Spacestation.
 
I'm really diggin on your breakdowns ck! Awesome work. Was wondering if you or anyone had some other videos of yates? I've exhausted most of the youtube videos, I think at least.
 
To update my thoughts on Yates, one reason I'm uncomfortable is because of all the short throws and check downs.

I just tallied up his entire NC State and Florida State games. I counted 68 aimed throws with an average throwing distance of about 19.0 yards. For perspective, Christian Ponder's average throwing distance on his aimed throws was about 24.0 yards against North Carolina. The disturbing thing though is that only 19 of the 68 throws (about 1 in 4) traveled 20+ yards through the air, with only 1 in 5 traveling 25+ yards. The rest is all dink and dunk. Again for comparison, with Christian Ponder, 24 of 35 of his throws went 20+ yards, and 14 of 35 went 25+ yards. That's 2 of 3 and 2 of 5, respectively.

But the flip side is...when T.J. Yates HAS thrown at distance, he's been pretty accurate. For instance, on those 19 throws, he completed 16 of them. One of the incompletions was a pure drop, and both others were near-misses on balls that traveled 45 and 50 yards through the air (we're talking off by maybe a yard, if that). That's pretty insane accuracy at distance. Ponder was 15 of the 24, with 2 of the incompletions being drops.

This is why T.J. Yates is such an enigma...especially as you try and compare him with a Christian Ponder. Everything I've learned about being fearful of the check down king makes me say that Ponder's game against UNC was more impressive than Yates' games against NC State and Florida State. But that insane accuracy on 20+ yard throws, when he does throw them, keeps me intrigued. My gut makes me go with Yates.
 
ckparrothead said:
To update my thoughts on Yates, one reason I'm uncomfortable is because of all the short throws and check downs.

I just tallied up his entire NC State and Florida State games. I counted 68 aimed throws with an average throwing distance of about 19.0 yards. For perspective, Christian Ponder's average throwing distance on his aimed throws was about 24.0 yards against North Carolina. The disturbing thing though is that only 19 of the 68 throws (about 1 in 4) traveled 20+ yards through the air, with only 1 in 5 traveling 25+ yards. The rest is all dink and dunk. Again for comparison, with Christian Ponder, 24 of 35 of his throws went 20+ yards, and 14 of 35 went 25+ yards. That's 2 of 3 and 2 of 5, respectively.

But the flip side is...when T.J. Yates HAS thrown at distance, he's been pretty accurate. For instance, on those 19 throws, he completed 16 of them. One of the incompletions was a pure drop, and both others were near-misses on balls that traveled 45 and 50 yards through the air (we're talking off by maybe a yard, if that). That's pretty insane accuracy at distance. Ponder was 15 of the 24, with 2 of the incompletions being drops.

This is why T.J. Yates is such an enigma...especially as you try and compare him with a Christian Ponder. Everything I've learned about being fearful of the check down king makes me say that Ponder's game against UNC was more impressive than Yates' games against NC State and Florida State. But that insane accuracy on 20+ yard throws, when he does throw them, keeps me intrigued. My gut makes me go with Yates.
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The thing that I would like to see on Saturday from Yates would be some 15 yard outs and deep comebacks. He can make the deep throw and the short throws. I'm just excited to see him play. the only full game I saw this year was against LSU.

And I personally think Ponder Blows, just saying. His stats in the senior bowl were so misleading. The first play from scrimmage where Hankerson bailed him out should have been a pick. That under throw reminded me of the game against the Browns where Henne badly under-threw a wide open Brian Hartline. The mechanics were almost identical. No legs in the throw at all.
 
I think Christian Ponder is pretty good, personally. Every now and then he throws up a WTF ball deep down the field. That ball you're talking about at the Senior Bowl was into a heavy wind and the ball slipped from his hand. I don't think it was an arm strength issue. But everything he did in that Senior Bowl after that throw was just short of 'superb'. He threw with deadly timing, had the ball out of his hand before the guy would even make his break. He was extremely accurate. He did a really good job and this was against the best seniors in the country, he deserves a lot of credit for what he did there. I've got he and Kaepernick tied with Kaepernick just ahead of him on potential (if you put a gun to my head). I've got Yates ahead of both. But, that could change.
 
Wow, I don't see either one of those guys with anywhere near the potential of Kaepernick, surely not physically.
 
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