Quinn/Russel ... Manning/Leaf Comparison | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Quinn/Russel ... Manning/Leaf Comparison

I have to confess a bias against quarterbacks. Over the years, there have been very few that I have been impressed with on a consistent basis. The position attracts more attention than any other in football, and probably in all of pro sports. The Qb gets, perhaps, more credit than deserved, and is often criticised too harshly. Tough gig. You're either the hero or the goat. But the reality in the NFL is that it is very unlikely you will win it all without a quality QB, and therein lies all the scrutiny.

There are many types of QBs and it is evident that there isn't one prototypical Qb required to win the SB. Manning is as different from Elway as is Ernie from Bert. A strong arm is obviously an asset but even the greatest arm isn't a guarantee for success. It's hard to describe, sort of like nailing jello to a tree, but it is the intangibles which are key to success. It is the intangibles which often separates the wheat from the chaff. It seems that you have it or you don't. And I should say 'having some' because even the intangibles can differ among Qbs.

Take Jim Kelly. Although he never won the big one you have to be imoressed with four consecutive appearances. Kelly didn't have the greatest of arms nor di he possess lightning speed. He also did make a quite a few mental errors but I've never seen a tougher QB. He was tough as rope. Make it nails.

Manning, who I never really liked, proved me wrong this year. Although the Colts didn't rely on him as much as they did in the past, Peyton played better down the stretch than he has in the past. His intangible is dogged determination. I don't think there is a better student of the game at this position. He studies film more effectively than any other QB.

Then there is phlegmatic Joe. Mr Cucumber. Cool hand Luke. When the pressure got higher, Montana got better. Montana may have been surrounded by a cast of venerable all stars, and future hall of famers, but it wasn't until the Iceman cometh that San Fransicso won the Lombardi.

Elway had the personna (some would say ego) but it made him and the others around him better. Young had a chip the size of Texas on his shoulder, and Aikman was resilliant.

Brady , in my opinion, has many of these qualities. He's the Golden Boy. The chosen one -or should I say the one not chosen until the 6th. He's got poise, competitiveness, toughness, and smarts. He's got it all.

Most of these guys also had incredible talent and skill but it was those intangibles that led them to championships. Again, it's hard to describe but they all had/have the "it" factor. And there have been very few over the years who have possessed "it".

There have been a lot of Qbs in the last 20 years who have, at one time or another, been thought to have possessed the "it" factor but only a handfull who actually did. In fact, several were believed to have had "it" but once people got a better look, they saw the "Sh" in front.

This bust factor is the primary culprit -or truth serum- for me having a bias against Qbs. Over the last 10 years I have quite frankly been down on every young QB with the exception of Palmer and Rivers. Of all the quarterbacks taken in that time, these were the only two that I felt possessed the elusive "it".

I have admittedly been very wrong on some like MCnair, Brees, and P Manning but the list of busts is far more populous. Couch, Akili Smith, D C-pep, Leaf, Vick, Joey, Carr, Boller, Losman and ROdgers have all fell short of expectations.
McNabb had a hand on 'it" but it has long disapeared. Alex Smith is a player I am becoming a believer in. I am a little doubtful of Palmer now, and I think Rivers' big test will come next year. Rothlesburger is close but I sometimes wonder.

I didn't think Young, Leinhart or Cutler possesed "it" but of course only time will tell.

For the Dolphins, the well has been running dry since Danny Boy took off the pads- actually, it was beginning to get dry even before he called it quits. Those years when Marino looked like the tin-man with all that metal around his lower body were a sad sight. Fielder, bless his big heart, would not have succeeded with all the intangibles in the world. He just didn't have the arm. Feeley definately didn't have "it", nor did Griese, Sage, Lucas, Huard or Gus. None of them had much talent either.

Which brings us to our current roster and my take on this year's draft. No need to go over Joey in too much detail. Nice guy but he's not starting material. DC has loads of talent but with his injury problems he has even less to compensate for the lack of the "it" factor. Call me crazy but I think Lemon is a better candidate to possibly have some of these intangibles than C-pep. I've been impressed with what I have seen but until he gets more playing time any judgements would be rash. And if Dc ever heals fully (apparently the latest reports are promising) I think his talent is so obvious the Phins will be forced to play him.

As far as this year's crop of Qbs , I'm having real difficulty seeing anyone succeed. Truthfully, I think Stanton may have the greatest possibility but he's definitely not worth the number 9. No reason to rehash why I'm not super high on Quinn. As for Russell, I would have really liked to have seen him stay for his senior year.

At the end of the day, I could be very wrong on this year's crop. As I said before, I was dead wrong in the past. But if I'm in charge of selecting the next player at this year's draft and Quinn is still on the board, I would be trying very hard to unload the pick for more first day picks.
 
This bust factor is the primary culprit -or truth serum- for me having a bias against Qbs. Over the last 10 years I have quite frankly been down on every young QB with the exception of Palmer and Rivers. Of all the quarterbacks taken in that time, these were the only two that I felt possessed the elusive "it".

I have admittedly been very wrong on some like MCnair, Brees, and P Manning but the list of busts is far more populous. Couch, Akili Smith, D C-pep, Leaf, Vick, Joey, Carr, Boller, Losman and ROdgers have all fell short of expectations.

How can you possibly put C-Pep in with Tim Couch, Akili Smith and Ryan Leaf. Non of these QB have ever led their teams to anything not to mention even sniffed the Pro Bowl. Daunte has been to the Pro Bowl 3 times and had one of the best season's ever for a QB. Granted his last two seasons has be a dissapointment but he is far from being a bust.
 
I can't see how Culpepper, a 3 time Pro Bowler, a runner up in the league MVP award, who's thrown 137 career touchdowns, could ever be called a bust. Similarly, JP Losman quite clearly is starting to develop very nicely in Buffalo. He and Lee evans work well together, he finally has a LT he can trust and his play has improved markedly. And calling Aaron Rodgers a bust because he's had to sit behind one of the great QB's of all time is a little unfair.
 
Any QB you take in the draft is a risk. There is no way of telling which ones will be good and which ones wont.
 
I can't see how Culpepper, a 3 time Pro Bowler, a runner up in the league MVP award, who's thrown 137 career touchdowns, could ever be called a bust. Similarly, JP Losman quite clearly is starting to develop very nicely in Buffalo. He and Lee evans work well together, he finally has a LT he can trust and his play has improved markedly. And calling Aaron Rodgers a bust because he's had to sit behind one of the great QB's of all time is a little unfair.
Fair enoguh on C-pep. Bust is definitely too strong. But I don't feel that Daunte, Losman or Rodgers have what it takes to go all the way. Possibly DC, if he returns to full health and gets a lot of help. Losman, IMO, is not that great. It's true he made improvements but he's still got a long ways to go. Rodgers has been stuck behind Favre but in the limited film that I have seen on him I have not been overly impressed. For a guy that at one point was a sure thing number 1, he dropped significantly. He will be limited by his arm, above everything else.
 
Any QB you take in the draft is a risk. There is no way of telling which ones will be good and which ones wont.
There is some truth in that statment. I wouldn't go so far as to say there is "no way of telling" but it can appear to be a lottery at times. Which brings me to the point of this year's draft. I'm not sold on Quinn, at least not for a ninth pick. I'd rather see the dolphins fill other holes.
 
Rodgers has been stuck behind Favre but in the limited film that I have seen on him I have not been overly impressed. For a guy that at one point was a sure thing number 1, he dropped significantly. He will be limited by his arm, above everything else.


Limited by his arm?? Rodgers has a gun, mate. His arm strength is excellent.
 
Did I get another post deleted?

This is getting rather Orwellian, wouldn't you say?
 
Limited by his arm?? Rodgers has a gun, mate. His arm strength is excellent.
By his arm I meant accuracy and strength. Coming out of college, he undoubtedly had the strongest arm. People said it was better than Smith's , as far as strength. However, I do recall reading recent reports out of G Bay are that the arm was not as strong as once thought. He does have other problems (decison making, throwing on the run) but people are now questioning his, once beieved to be, his best asset.
I'd be very surprised if Rodgers amounts to much in the NFL.
 
Fair enoguh on C-pep. Bust is definitely too strong. But I don't feel that Daunte, Losman or Rodgers have what it takes to go all the way. Possibly DC, if he returns to full health and gets a lot of help. Losman, IMO, is not that great. It's true he made improvements but he's still got a long ways to go. Rodgers has been stuck behind Favre but in the limited film that I have seen on him I have not been overly impressed. For a guy that at one point was a sure thing number 1, he dropped significantly. He will be limited by his arm, above everything else.

I don't see how any conclusions could possibly be made about Aaron Rodgers, that were not already made about him coming out of the draft.

People said that the "limited" film on Phil Rivers while he was stuck behind Brees was unimpressive...and in the end the only thing that was unimpressive was those peoples' "limited" intelligence. Mind you, I'm not saying the same about you, I'm just saying it would be well to keep past mistakes by others in mind when making certain assumptions.

I'm still waiting to see more on Losman...he had a year that surprised the heck out of me and I was sure coming out of the draft that Losman was never going to have sustained success. He could, of course, prove me wrong by simply sustaining the success he had in 2006.
 
I don't see how any conclusions could possibly be made about Aaron Rodgers, that were not already made about him coming out of the draft.

People said that the "limited" film on Phil Rivers while he was stuck behind Brees was unimpressive...and in the end the only thing that was unimpressive was those peoples' "limited" intelligence. Mind you, I'm not saying the same about you, I'm just saying it would be well to keep past mistakes by others in mind when making certain assumptions.

I'm still waiting to see more on Losman...he had a year that surprised the heck out of me and I was sure coming out of the draft that Losman was never going to have sustained success. He could, of course, prove me wrong by simply sustaining the success he had in 2006.

CK, I remember a report coming out around midseason that was about offenses simplifying their schemes somewhat for the younger quarterbacks, and Losman and Alex Smith were among those mentioned. Is there any truth to the report, or is it more of a case of better teammates?
 
I don't see how any conclusions could possibly be made about Aaron Rodgers, that were not already made about him coming out of the draft.

People said that the "limited" film on Phil Rivers while he was stuck behind Brees was unimpressive...and in the end the only thing that was unimpressive was those peoples' "limited" intelligence. Mind you, I'm not saying the same about you, I'm just saying it would be well to keep past mistakes by others in mind when making certain assumptions.

I'm still waiting to see more on Losman...he had a year that surprised the heck out of me and I was sure coming out of the draft that Losman was never going to have sustained success. He could, of course, prove me wrong by simply sustaining the success he had in 2006.

There is some truth to your point about Rodgers not having played enough to have a proper assessment, or at least one that differs from the assement in college, however, rememeber that the speed of the game is significantly different form the college to the pros. I rememebr reading some reports (sorry can't find the links after a cursory scan) indicating that the Packers front office was less than pleased with Rodgers progress last off-season.

As for Losman, he did have some quality games lasy year but I'm not sold on him. He takes too many sacks and fumbles too much.
He's defintiely better than the year before but I doubt that he's the answer for Buffalo.
 
CK, I remember a report coming out around midseason that was about offenses simplifying their schemes somewhat for the younger quarterbacks, and Losman and Alex Smith were among those mentioned. Is there any truth to the report, or is it more of a case of better teammates?

I don't remember hearing that but it makes sense. Both Alex Smith and JP Losman are very smart guys...but this early in their careers it would be unwise to give them too much to think about on the field until they were ready for it.
 
I can't see how Culpepper, a 3 time Pro Bowler, a runner up in the league MVP award, who's thrown 137 career touchdowns, could ever be called a bust. Similarly, JP Losman quite clearly is starting to develop very nicely in Buffalo. He and Lee evans work well together, he finally has a LT he can trust and his play has improved markedly. And calling Aaron Rodgers a bust because he's had to sit behind one of the great QB's of all time is a little unfair.

Culpepper may be a bust so far for us, but career-wise he isn't. But this is a what have you done for me lately league so Culpepper is currently in the doghouse.
 
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