Ryan is done as a Dolphins if we have a successful season

[finmann]

I don't think anyone sober thinks Cutler will take us to the SB this year. However, I think it's possible that he comes in and plays better than RT ever has. That would be an interesting problem.

Possible? More like "likely." That wouldn't be an interesting problem it would be a disaster. Cutler has the ability to look like a genius and god forbid we fall for the hype which many of us have already done. He is a rental, and he needs to remain that way. If Gase extends him for 2 or 3 more years like some has suggested that would be a major mistake for this franchise.

 

[roy_miami]

As much as I understand the flaws in the "happy crew" logic I just never got this type of logic either. You had a revolving door of garbage QBs in Miami before Tannehill took over and by garbage I mean most of them were barely backups let alone NFL starting caliber. You had a need and you took a shot and it wasn't even a huge gamble since the compensation to date given up is marginal at best.

This isn't black jack, you can't count the deck to increase your odds of winning. There was no other option at that point in time other than Tannehill unless of course you want to use hindsight on the long shot and say "well we could have taken a guy like Wilson". If you want to find the real reason the QB position in the NFL is becoming a complete garbage can you should look to your dad's advice that things do and will inevitably change and that change is at the college level. As more teams at the collegiate level progress to the "spread" type offense that simplifies the reads placed on the QB and therefor reduces that knowledge that a QB needs to understand. That reduction in overall football knowledge means you aren't going to have a draft class like 1983 ever again and it's been on a steady decline since 2005.

Since 2009 here is the list of QBs draft out of college with winning records to date:

1. Teddy Bridgwater
2. Dak Prescott
3. Andrew Luck
4. Brock Osweiler
5. Nick Foles
6. Russell Wilson
7. Cam Newton
8. Andy Dalton

That's it out of the 80+ QBs that were drafted from 2010 thru 2016 and of those 8 there are maybe 4 or 5 who you'd absolutely take over Tannehill. So I ask again what is the plan to improve the QB position once you walk away from Tannehill?

If I give you advice on painting and you ignore it you don't get to come back with 'don't give me any of this hindsight BS, if you're so smart how do I get out of this corner I've painted myself in?'

Yeah we were desperate for a QB in 2012 but did we have to be? We could have taken Mallet in 2011 instead of Daniel Thomas, which wouldn't have made us great but we also wouldn't have been so desperate a year later. If I was the decider Wilson, McCarron and Foles would be the 3 QBs on my roster right now (plus a camp arm or two), and its not hindsight I wanted to take those guys when available. Hell, Philbin wanted Derek Carr in 2014. Even if we just had McCarron (who we could have taken in the 5th instead of Arthur Lynch) I think everybody would be exponentially more pumped for this season, Tannehill haters and lovers alike.

So I ask this: why is it the Patriots are willing and able to invest more in the QB position than most teams despite having the goat QB already on the roster?

Clearly its a philosophical thing, and if the Patriots are on one end of the spectrum, continuing to invest high picks in the QB position despite having Brady then Gase would be on the opposite end of the spectrum- refusing to invest draft capitol into the position despite having a mediocre QB on a "ticking time bomb" knee and a backup QB that he clearly had to faith in. And I despise that line of thinking.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

So I ask this: why is it the Patriots are willing and able to invest more in the QB position than most teams despite having the goat QB already on the roster?

A) Brady is 40 years old
B) They have a stacked roster
C) They have had a ton of picks
D) How do you define "invest more"

Since 2000, (sticking to early round picks) the Patriots have used 3 3rds and a 2nd on QBs. The Dolphins have used 3 2nds and a 1st. They also traded a 2nd round pick for Culpepper, and a 2nd round pick for Feeley. For those keeping scoring, that's FIVE second round picks and ONE first round pick since 2004.

The first 3rd rounder was used by the Patriots when Brady was entering his 9th year. That was Kevin O'Connell. Excuse me if I don't get all pissed about not following their lead. During the first 8 years of his career, the Patriots drafted QBs in the 4th, 6th, and 7th rounds.

Say again, how the Pats are investing more than the Dolphins?

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

The Eagles did it just last year or is Bradford not young enough? Oh wait, he's actually younger than Tannehill if you can believe it.

GIven the fact that they traded Bradford, it is safe to assume they weren't sold on him as the starter. They had also just fired Chip Kelly (who brought in Bradford) and hired Pederson and were moving to a completely different offense. Next.

 

[Snoop]

GIven the fact that they traded Bradford, it is safe to assume they weren't sold on him as the starter. They had also just fired Chip Kelly (who brought in Bradford) and hired Pederson and were moving to a completely different offense. Next.

They traded Bradford a week before the season started. And they really only did it because they got an offer they couldn't refuse (a 1st and a conditional 4th) due to the Minnesota's desperation after losing Bridgewater.

 

[NY8123]

If I give you advice on painting and you ignore it you don't get to come back with 'don't give me any of this hindsight BS, if you're so smart how do I get out of this corner I've painted myself in?'

Yeah we were desperate for a QB in 2012 but did we have to be? We could have taken Mallet in 2011 instead of Daniel Thomas, which wouldn't have made us great but we also wouldn't have been so desperate a year later. If I was the decider Wilson, McCarron and Foles would be the 3 QBs on my roster right now (plus a camp arm or two), and its not hindsight I wanted to take those guys when available. Hell, Philbin wanted Derek Carr in 2014. Even if we just had McCarron (who we could have taken in the 5th instead of Arthur Lynch) I think everybody would be exponentially more pumped for this season, Tannehill haters and lovers alike.

So I ask this: why is it the Patriots are willing and able to invest more in the QB position than most teams despite having the goat QB already on the roster?

Clearly its a philosophical thing, and if the Patriots are on one end of the spectrum, continuing to invest high picks in the QB position despite having Brady then Gase would be on the opposite end of the spectrum- refusing to invest draft capitol into the position despite having a mediocre QB on a "ticking time bomb" knee and a backup QB that he clearly had to faith in. And I despise that line of thinking.

Did you say Mallet? Sorry bro like Awsi said you usually are a good poster from the other side of the coin but anyone who advocated taking Mallet should never bash the decision to take Tannehill. If memory serves me Mallet was going to beat Miami for years to come or at least that's what he told everyone anyway. At this point he makes Henne look like an all-pro.

What have the Pats invested? Castle and Jimmy Garoppolo? Jacoby Brissett and Mallett? If anything it's because of Tom Brady you can miss on high picks like that but I can assure you if the Pats had Chad Henne at QB and made those picks the fanbase would be up in arms for heads to roll. I honestly don't know what Billy-Boy thinks on draft day sometimes but there is one thing certain about a Belichick draft, odds are good he takes CB and QB and both end up off the team. From 2010 he's taken 7 CBs and 4 QBs, 4 of which are on the roster this season (2 were drafted in 2017). So he's wasted 2 picks on QBs and 5 picks on CBs. That's one whole draft class down the drain and while I know Miami's record for talent retention is probably worse I laugh at the notion that Bill is some sort of mastermind that can't miss. He is human just like the rest of the front offices he just has maybe the best QB to ever play the game running his offense and that's a luxury Miami had in Marino but likely won't have again anytime soon.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

They traded Bradford a week before the season started. And they really only did it because they got an offer they couldn't refuse (a 1st and a conditional 4th) due to the Minnesota's desperation after losing Bridgewater.

Regardless, they were in a state of flux around a QB that had already been traded from his first team for a 5th round pick. The previous season that ended with the firing of the coaching staff and the ultimate reversal of many of the personnel decisions made by Kelly (including Bradford).

Philly had relatively little invested in Bradford and (as you said) got an offer they couldn't refuse.

How many teams that are sold on a relatively young QB sign them to only a two year contract?

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Did you say Mallet? Sorry bro like Awsi said you usually are a good poster from the other side of the coin but anyone who advocated taking Mallet should never bash the decision to take Tannehill. If memory serves me Mallet was going to beat Miami for years to come or at least that's what he told everyone anyway.

What have the Pats invested? Castle and Jimmy Garoppolo? Jacoby Brissett and Mallett? If anything it's because of Tom Brady you can miss on high picks like that but I can assure you if the Pats had Chad Henne at QB and made those picks the fanbase would be up in arms for heads to roll. I honestly don't know what Billy-Boy thinks on draft day sometimes but there is one thing certain about a Belichick drafts, odds are good he takes CB and QB and both end up off the team. From 2010 he's taken 7 CBs and 4 QBs, 4 of which are on the roster this season (2 were drafted in 2017). So he's wasted 2 picks on QBs and 5 picks on CBs. That's one whole draft class down the drain and while I know Miami record for talent retention is probably worse I laugh at the notion that Bill is some sort of mastermind that can't miss. He is human just like the rest of the front offices he just has maybe the best QB to ever play the game running his offense.

That is the logic of some people. The Pats are a great team so we must emulate everything they do. Fine, draft a Michigan QB in the 6th round every year until you hit on another Brady. Don't you know that since missing on Brady, we should have taken these QBs:

QB 2016 3 29 91 Jacoby Brissett North Carolina State
2014 2 30 62 Jimmy Garoppolo Eastern Illinois
2011 3 10 74 Ryan Mallett Arkansas
2010 7 43 250 Zac Robinson Oklahoma State
2008 3 31 94 Kevin O'Connell San Diego State
2005 7 16 230 Matt Cassel USC
2003 6 28 201 Kliff Kingsbury Texas Tech
2002 4 19 117 Rohan Davey

 

[NY8123]

That is the logic of some people. The Pats are a great team so we must emulate everything they do. Fine, draft a Michigan QB in the 6th round every year until you hit on another Brady. Don't you know that since missing on Brady, we should have taken these QBs:

QB 2016 3 29 91 Jacoby Brissett North Carolina State
2014 2 30 62 Jimmy Garoppolo Eastern Illinois
2011 3 10 74 Ryan Mallett Arkansas
2010 7 43 250 Zac Robinson Oklahoma State
2008 3 31 94 Kevin O'Connell San Diego State
2005 7 16 230 Matt Cassel USC
2003 6 28 201 Kliff Kingsbury Texas Tech
2002 4 19 117 Rohan Davey

Cannon foder......all of em'.

 

[Snoop]

Regardless, they were in a state of flux around a QB that had already been traded from his first team for a 5th round pick. The previous season that ended with the firing of the coaching staff and the ultimate reversal of many of the personnel decisions made by Kelly (including Bradford).

Philly had relatively little invested in Bradford and (as you said) got an offer they couldn't refuse.

How many teams that are sold on a relatively young QB sign them to only a two year contract?

You said they weren't sold on Bradford as the starter. Maybe what you meant or should have said was they weren't sold on him as the long term answer, which explains the short deal and moving up to draft Wentz. We might have a similar situation with Tannehill next offseason, who knows.

No team took a QB early when they had a "relatively young solid starting QB" ?? ... I'd say that's a pretty fair and accurate description of what Bradford was at the time and still is.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

You said they weren't sold on Bradford as the starter. Maybe what you meant or should have said was they weren't sold on him as the long term answer, which explains the short deal and moving up to draft Wentz. We might have a similar situation with Tannehill next offseason, who knows.

No team took a QB early when they had a "relatively young solid starting QB" ?? ... I'd say that's a pretty fair and accurate description of what Bradford was at the time and still is.

Whether Bradford is a "solid starting QB' is up for debate.

Also, earlier in the thread I wrote this:

"Teams DO NOT use high picks on QBs unless they absolutely need one very soon or they can clearly see the end of the line for the current QB and they have a decent team already (they can afford to use the pick)."

I'd say signing Bradford to a two year low cost deal qualifies as seeing the end of the line for their current QB.

If "Sam Bradford" is the best counter example that can be given for my argument, I'd say I'm pretty well convinced of my statement.

 

[Vaark]

If I give you advice on painting and you ignore it you don't get to come back with 'don't give me any of this hindsight BS, if you're so smart how do I get out of this corner I've painted myself in?'

Yeah we were desperate for a QB in 2012 but did we have to be? We could have taken Mallet in 2011 instead of Daniel Thomas, which wouldn't have made us great but we also wouldn't have been so desperate a year later. If I was the decider Wilson, McCarron and Foles would be the 3 QBs on my roster right now (plus a camp arm or two), and its not hindsight I wanted to take those guys when available. Hell, Philbin wanted Derek Carr in 2014. Even if we just had McCarron (who we could have taken in the 5th instead of Arthur Lynch) I think everybody would be exponentially more pumped for this season, Tannehill haters and lovers alike.

So I ask this: why is it the Patriots are willing and able to invest more in the QB position than most teams despite having the goat QB already on the roster?

Clearly its a philosophical thing, and if the Patriots are on one end of the spectrum, continuing to invest high picks in the QB position despite having Brady then Gase would be on the opposite end of the spectrum- refusing to invest draft capitol into the position despite having a mediocre QB on a "ticking time bomb" knee and a backup QB that he clearly had to faith in. And I despise that line of thinking.

If you give me advice on painting, if you're a painter I might take it under consideration.. but considering that until the day Philbin was kicked to the curb, and long overdue, you were contending he was a better than average HC. You blamed Tannehill for Philbin's demise when in fact it was Philbin who was holding Tannehill back. (as elaborated in VIP thread which you don't get access to LOL). So consequently, any advice from you is essentially tainted as the fruit from a poisoned tree. If you're a house-painter, definitely stick to that.

 

[Vaark]

It's funny how the myopians failed to notice Tannehill's 7-1 record with top 10 stats before injury once Gase's influence and offense kicked in.

The myopians can yammer around the clock about how Tannehill doesn't measure up, despite obviously taking a hiatus through his last half season, but Gase who has actually enhanced QB play and garnered the respect of most everyone he's been associated with including PManning came here largely because of Tannehill. And surely that last half of his season, the belief was validated. So whose opinions are you gonna take seriously?? LOL

Now if Tannehill demonstrates he has not or will not ever be the same, that's another story. But apples to apples given what Ryan has shown, his age, his intelligence and his mobility, picking Cutler over him is like selecting a Ford Focus over a Lexus.

 

[AL R]

It's funny how the myopians failed to notice Tannehill's 7-1 record with top 10 stats before injury once Gase's influence and offense kicked in.

The myopians can yammer around the clock about how Tannehill doesn't measure up, despite obviously taking a hiatus through his last half season, but Gase who has actually enhanced QB play and garnered the respect of most everyone he's been associated with including PManning came here largely because of Tannehill. And surely that last half of his season, the belief was validated. So whose opinions are you gonna take seriously?? LOL

Now if Tannehill demonstrates he has not or will not ever be the same, that's another story. But apples to apples given what Ryan has shown, his age, his intelligence and his mobility, picking Cutler over him is like selecting a Ford Focus over a Lexus.

I finally thought we had put the constant criticism of Ryan's play somewhat to rest last year before the injury. He was playing welll before he went down (his critics were mighty quiet) but since he got injured- it has started all over again.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

I finally thought we had put the constant criticism of Ryan's play somewhat to rest last year before the injury. He was playing welll before he went down (his critics were mighty quiet) but since he got injured- it has started all over again.

Sadly, there is still a group that would rather be right and see the Dolphins dive back into the QB cesspool than to be wrong and see the Dolphins attempt to complete the process of building a SB contender.