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The Bet

phinsforlife

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Q: Do you believe some teams load up to try and win a Super Bowl, believing they have a short window for various reasons, and feel it is important to go for it fully knowing the bill will come due and the consequences will be felt for a few years?

A: I do.

Q: Do you believe this is a reasonable thing to do?

A: I do not like the idea of doing this, but I understand why some teams might do it. I prefer the strategy of building a very good team that is sustainable, and has a shot year in and year out over a long period of time. I think many bites at the apple gives you better odds of success than one big bite. This is what KC has done, and what the Patriots did.

Q: Do you believe he Dolphins just tried to load up in 2023 to take advantage of Tua being on his last cheap year from his rookie contract?

A: I do.

Q: Whose idea do you think this was?

A: Primarily Steve Ross’s, but my guess is neither McDaniel nor Grier fought him too hard on this one. Ultimately behaving this way is an ownership decision. Even if you believe it wasn’t Ross’s idea, he had to sign off on the approach. Either way, the buck stops with him.

Q: In Miami’s case, was this a reasonable thing to do?

A: In my view, absolutely not. They went all in, with a very weak poker hand. It is almost like they went all in with a bluff. Not advisable. Grier is the one who had to execute this, and in no way had Grier proven he is savvy enough to pull it off. Wrong guy for Ross to make the bet with. Then, although I am high on McDaniel as a coach, he is not there yet and still too green. He has a lot to learn. This process may have begun in 2022, when they had no idea what McDaniel was, because it was his first year. Same thing for Tua at that point. Coming into 2022, he looked pretty shaky. Then, even though he looked good, he spent a fair portion of the year hurt with concussions, to the degree his career was in question. With Tua and McDaniel being question marks, they continued the process in 2022 with the Chubb deal, and then did the Ramsey deal in the 2023 offseason, prior to Tua proving he was a playoff QB and prior to McDaniel showing he had enough seasoning. There just was not enough data to confidently go all in and think you had a good chance of pulling it off, such that the future pain would be worth bearing for the short term high of a Super Bowl run.

Q: How well did they execute the all-in?

A: Poorly in my view. First of all, not a single division title or playoff win. Compare this to the LA Rams, who had a 5 or 6 year run. Two Super Bowls, with one win. Competitive and in the playoffs nearly the whole time. Took a digger after that, but only for two years, and they seem to already have put themselves back into a decent spot. That was well executed, and a smart bet by the Rams owner. He had a great GM in Les Snead, a proven HC in Sean McVay, and a roster that seemed like it had the wherewithal to get the job done with a few key pieces added. Those guys brough the right QB in at the end, to be the final piece of the puzzle. It worked. And they didn’t suffer incredible amounts of pain on the backside, as their GM was capable enough to manage around it and rebuild smartly and quickly. In the case of the Dolphins, not only do we seemingly have nothing to show for it, but Grier left the team in a terrible spot doing this. Devoid of draft picks and way over the cap. All at the same time when their own key guys are hitting the market, and when Tua’s deal is coming up, which is a big issue to work around in and of itself. Grier left too much to hit, all at once, along with Tua's monster new deal. This is terrible management of the all-in. Way too much risk with consequences that are too severe, the way this all played out with their own talented players coming to market. It was mismanaged, which is no surprise. The all-in didn’t work, and now we are bearing too high a cost the way Grier architected it.

Q: Who do you blame?

A: Primarily Ross in my view. Although Grier stinks, and McDaniel is not ready, and Tua is still a big question mark, Ross is the one who decided to go all in with these variables in play, Grier being the one he had to rely on to execute it, and all the question marks. Although I am OK with a team doing this like the Rams, the Dolphins were not in a place to do it. Again, I wonder if Ross’s age is part of the issue? Did he feel like this was his last shot, or is this just more of the same impetuous behavior as the prior 23 years? At any rate, this was a really bad bet for the Dolphins. The risk/reward was not good. It is akin to taking your life savings, and putting it all on one number on the roulette wheel.

Q: Am I being too pessimistic?

A: No, and potentially yes in practice. First of all, I am making a process point. Sometimes you can do the wrong thing and get lucky and be rewarded for it. But, from a pure how to behave perspective, it has not been good strategy or execution. What we now know is there is no doubt they are forced to shed a bunch of talent from the roster due to the spot they are in. There is also no doubt they have had little in the way of draft capital the last few years. As things stand now, on paper, they are a fair bit less talented than last year. Obviously, the offseason is not done yet. They could pull a rabbit out of the hat. But to rely on the guy to pull this off with negative cap space and few draft picks when he couldn’t pull it off with a lot of draft picks and a lot of cap space seems like a low probability outcome. Fewer injuries could be a potential offset, but that is betting on something random (and the reality is Tua or someone else important could get hurt next year), not to mention it seems like it will be a while before Chubb and Jaelen Phillips will be back to full potential.

Thoughts?
 
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Great write-up. Now, I'm not a Grier fan, and I'd prefer a bigger, stronger, more athletic QB. I also don't think that McDaniel should be a HC calling plays; he's not even an experienced OC and he sucks at in-game management. He basically jumped from being an Assistant Offensive Coach to being a Head Coach AND calling the plays.

That said, I agree that Ross is the problem. First of all, how could Ross not see how Grier took an injured Tua at #5, and then when it was Tua's turn to start, Grier didn't bother to give him a decent o-line? And, regardless of who the QB was, why didn't they have a decent o-line several years into a rebuild? This fact alone is IMO grounds to fire Grier. So, who in their right mind is going to go all-in on a team with a GM that can't build an o-line, an unproven QB who has admitted that sometimes he can't see WRs who are open, and a newbie HC calling plays who has no experience calling plays? In recent history, this team has won NOTHING, so what led Ross to believe that going all-in for 2023 was going to work? Ross is not in his right mind, as evidenced by the fact that he has NEVER cleaned house completely; he just keeps doing the same old dumb half-a** job.
 
Were you asking yourself the questions? Or were you interviewing someone? Or being interviewed? Thanks in advance.
were you asking for a friend? would appreciate your thoughts on the questions at hand. thanks in advance!
 
The teams that have a shot to win it, year in and year out, are the teams with superior elite QBs which is only like 3 or 4 teams.
 
Q: Do you believe some teams load up to try and win a Super Bowl, believing they have a short window for various reasons, and feel it is important to go for it fully knowing the bill will come due and the consequences will be felt for a few years?

A: I do.

Q: Do you believe this is a reasonable thing to do?

A: I do not like the idea of doing this, but I understand why some teams might do it. I prefer the strategy of building a very good team that is sustainable, and has a shot year in and year out over a long period of time. I think many bites at the apple gives you better odds of success than one big bite. This is what KC has done, and what the Patriots did.

Q: Do you believe he Dolphins just tried to load up in 2023 to take advantage of Tua being on his last cheap year from his rookie contract?

A: I do.

Q: Whose idea do you think this was?

A: Primarily Steve Ross’s, but my guess is neither McDaniel nor Grier fought him too hard on this one. Ultimately behaving this way is an ownership decision. Even if you believe it wasn’t Ross’s idea, he had to sign off on the approach. Either way, the buck stops with him.

Q: In Miami’s case, was this a reasonable thing to do?

A: In my view, absolutely not. They went all in, with a very weak poker hand. It is almost like they went all in with a bluff. Not advisable. Grier is the one who had to execute this, and in no way had Grier proven he is savvy enough to pull it off. Wrong guy for Ross to make the bet with. Then, although I am high on McDaniel as a coach, he is not there yet and still too green. He has a lot to learn. This process may have begun in 2022, when they had no idea what McDaniel was, because it was his first year. Same thing for Tua at that point. Coming into 2022, he looked pretty shaky. Then, even though he looked good, he spent a fair portion of the year hurt with concussions, to the degree his career was in question. With Tua and McDaniel being question marks, they continued the process in 2022 with the Chubb deal, and then did the Ramsey deal in the 2023 offseason, prior to Tua proving he was a playoff QB and prior to McDaniel showing he had enough seasoning. There just was not enough data to confidently go all in and think you had a good chance of pulling it off, such that the future pain would be worth bearing for the short term high of a Super Bowl run.

Q: How well did they execute the all-in?

A: Poorly in my view. First of all, not a single division title or playoff win. Compare this to the LA Rams, who had a 5 or 6 year run. Two Super Bowls, with one win. Competitive and in the playoffs nearly the whole time. Took a digger after that, but only for two years, and they seem to already have put themselves back into a decent spot. That was well executed, and a smart bet by the Rams owner. He had a great GM in Les Snead, a proven HC in Sean McVay, and a roster that seemed like it had the wherewithal to get the job done with a few key pieces added. Those guys brough the right QB in at the end, to be the final piece of the puzzle. It worked. And they didn’t suffer incredible amounts of pain on the backside, as their GM was capable enough to manage around it and rebuild smartly and quickly. In the case of the Dolphins, not only do we seemingly have nothing to show for it, but Grier left the team in a terrible spot doing this. Devoid of draft picks and way over the cap. All at the same time when their own key guys are hitting the market, and when Tua’s deal is coming up. Grier left too much to hit, all at once. This is terrible management of the all-in. Way too much risk with consequences that are too severe, the way this all played out with their own talented players coming to market. It was mismanaged, which is no surprise. The all-in didn’t work, and now we are bearing too high a cost the way Grier architected it.

Q: Who do you blame?

A: Primarily Ross in my view. Although Grier stinks, and McDaniel is not ready, and Tua is still a big question mark, Ross is the one who decided to go all in with these variables in play, Grier being the one he had to rely on to execute it, and all the question marks. Although I am OK with a team doing this like the Rams, the Dolphins were not in a place to do it. Again, I wonder if Ross’s age is part of the issue? Did he feel like this was his last shot, or is this just more of the same impetuous behavior as the prior 23 years? At any rate, this was a really bad bet for the Dolphins. The risk/reward was not good. It is akin to taking your life savings, and putting it all on one number on the roulette wheel.

Q: Am I being too pessimistic?

A: No, and potentially yes in practice. First of all, I am making a process point. Sometimes you can do the wrong thing and get lucky and be rewarded for it. But, from a pure how to behave perspective, it has not been good strategy or execution. What we now know is there is no doubt they are forced to shed a bunch of talent from the roster due to the spot they are in. There is also no doubt they have had little in the way of draft capital the last few years. As things stand now, on paper, they are a fair bit less talented than last year. Obviously, the offseason is not done yet. They could pull a rabbit out of the hat. But to rely on the guy to pull this off with negative cap space and few draft picks when he couldn’t pull it off with a lot of draft picks and a lot of cap space seems like a low probability outcome. Fewer injuries could be a potential offset, but that is betting on something random (and the reality is Tua or someone else important could get hurt next year), not to mention it seems like it will be a while before Chubb and Jaelen Phillips will be back to full potential.

Thoughts?

Do I believe this is a reasonable thing to do? For a private company selling shampoo, no. For a professional sports team, yes. Professional sports teams can't predict what will happen 2-3 years from now, they know the cap has a major affect and injuries/ability of new coaches/draft/and others can't be predicted. Fans, OTOH, want to win NOW and fans are THE ultimate source of income. Yes, once/twice in a lifetime fans can accept a 'rebuild,' patience is not a trait of fans.
I've said (correctly) a couple of times, getting a top HC, top QB, top D, top OL, or just 3 of those is a lot of luck. That can't be built as a car company buying parts. Look at most teams in the NFL. Frequent coaching changes, frequent QB changes, frequent coordinator changes. The owner/FO doesn't say to themselves 'let's just roll the dice on a QB. They pick the bets they can get. They draft 'this year's' can't miss QB, only to see most of them miss. They draft 1Rers, only to see them become 'average' or worse. When those teams get what they think are a few of those parts and look at the cap 2-3 years away, they'll focus on NOW, and I don't blame them.
 
The teams that have a shot to win it, year in and year out, are the teams with superior elite QBs which is only like 3 or 4 teams.
philadelphia almost won last year and easily could have without that hurts fumble, same for SF this year if not for a missed XP and a terrible coaching decision in OT. they were quite close
 
Wait, you are now interviewing yourself? At least you haven't went full "can't pay Tua as it will cripple the franchise" in the first post like normal. I'll give it another 20 to 30 posts into the thread before we get to that.
 
but I do think people on here are overreacting to the players we are letting go (outside of Wilkins). X was done and has not been the same guy the last couple of years - to be expected though, dude will be 31 soon! Jerome Baker was just a guy, far from playmaking LB. Solid but replaceable. Robert Hunt has been good, good but not great, he's replaceable and apparently wanted more money. Ogbah also has disappeared, and his departure should come as no surprise. The only player we are losing that REALLY hurts is Wilkins, we tried to keep him here but he wanted top tier money. We still have another very good DT in Seiler. Everyone else is replaceable and doubt we notice their missing next season.
 
Good luck has a lot to do with success in such a competitive league. Injuries certainly derailed us. That being said, I completely believe that the process of reseting the team and obtaining draft capital and enough cap to spend on key free agents was the right one. Problem? Grier sucks at drafting and we lost a couple of years with coach Flores who wasnt up to the task. I think we will regret not doing so this year. Instead we are going to sign Tua for the long term and keep Grier who hasnt drafted a top player or a single solid OL. I think that bet could come to destroy the team as McDaniel will pay for the failure and I think he is top brain in the NFL. The kind we havent had since Jimmy Johnson. We can criticize him for his very poor decisions but it is the first time since the Dan Marino days that we had a top NFL offense. The big difference is that on the Marino days we had an elite QB, elite LT, some elite OL and lots of weapons all over the offense. McDaniel did it with Tua, a very average (when healthy OL) and no names for RBs and TEs. Only Hill, cause Waddle had kind of a regular year. He is a freacking genius and we will regret the day we fire him because Grier sucks and Ross didnt have the cojones to fire him with Flores and let a capable GM and McDaniel finally turn us into contenders. Hope this dont happen but I can see it.
 
but I do think people on here are overreacting to the players we are letting go (outside of Wilkins). X was done and has not been the same guy the last couple of years - to be expected though, dude will be 31 soon! Jerome Baker was just a guy, far from playmaking LB. Solid but replaceable. Robert Hunt has been good, good but not great, he's replaceable and apparently wanted more money. Ogbah also has disappeared, and his departure should come as no surprise. The only player we are losing that REALLY hurts is Wilkins, we tried to keep him here but he wanted top tier money. We still have another very good DT in Seiler. Everyone else is replaceable and doubt we notice their missing next season.
I agree with this, we just need to reshuffle this defense and salary composition now that we have a high paid CB and Edge (Ramsey/Chubb) in the fold from recent trades. No getting around it and X/Baker are older players. Losing Wilkins hurts but if/when we replace him with a much cheaper draft pick or FA and get say 85 to 90 percent of what Wilkins gave us, it won't seem as big a loss then.

Moving forward we will actually pick up some valuable comp picks which we haven't done in quite some time and that's part of the modern day formula for quality roster/cap management.

With a new OC, two hurt 1st round talent Edge rushers and new faces at every level the D looks to be taking a step back whether we have Wilkins in the fold or not. Have to make the prudent business decision and save $20MM +/- on the cap while getting a 3rd round pick in '25. Young and or talent deficient defenses can often surprise as well, look no further than how our D played this year down the stretch outside of the Baltimore game, after a bunch of our key guys got hurt, they still generally kept us in games.

We can come out of this offseason with a stronger offense IMO and our emphasis should be on that. The D will be a work in progress throughout the season as the new system sets in and as key players get healthy and/or game experience for any rookies or first year starters (Cam Smith hopefully). We will have a lot of high end draft capital in '25 too so looking at this as a 2-offseason mini-rebuild we could certainly be right back in the thick of "on paper one of the most talented teams" in a relatively short amount of time if we make the hard yet prudent business decisions now and it seems that is the direction we are heading.

Of course we really need to draft well but that goes without saying every year pretty much.
 
I agree with this, we just need to reshuffle this defense and salary composition now that we have a high paid CB and Edge (Ramsey/Chubb) in the fold from recent trades. No getting around it and X/Baker are older players. Losing Wilkins hurts but if/when we replace him with a much cheaper draft pick or FA and get say 85 to 90 percent of what Wilkins gave us, it won't seem as big a loss then.

Moving forward we will actually pick up some valuable comp picks which we haven't done in quite some time and that's part of the modern day formula for quality roster/cap management.

With a new OC, two hurt 1st round talent Edge rushers and new faces at every level the D looks to be taking a step back whether we have Wilkins in the fold or not. Have to make the prudent business decision and save $20MM +/- on the cap while getting a 3rd round pick in '25. Young and or talent deficient defenses can often surprise as well, look no further than how our D played this year down the stretch outside of the Baltimore game, after a bunch of our key guys got hurt, they still generally kept us in games.

We can come out of this offseason with a stronger offense IMO and our emphasis should be on that. The D will be a work in progress throughout the season as the new system sets in and as key players get healthy and/or game experience for any rookies or first year starters (Cam Smith hopefully). We will have a lot of high end draft capital in '25 too so looking at this as a 2-offseason mini-rebuild we could certainly be right back in the thick of "on paper one of the most talented teams" in a relatively short amount of time if we make the hard yet prudent business decisions now and it seems that is the direction we are heading.

Of course we really need to draft well but that goes without saying every year pretty much.
Good post……

The offense should be the emphasis.

I suspect we will find adequate players to rotate into Wilkins spot.
 
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