The Great Quarterback Debate... | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Great Quarterback Debate...

Cutler looked like JP Losman in the pocket to me. I dont see a presence in the pocket. He didnt look comfortable. The arm is great, decent accuracy, and has the size, but I would stay away from this guy.

Missing some throws in one game isnt going to hurt him, but in my opinion, Cutler is just a prototype QB, without the intangibles.

I think the best option for you guys would be to trade the 1st for Rivers, instead of drafting a QB with your 1st.
 
DaBills4life said:
Cutler looked like JP Losman in the pocket to me. I dont see a presence in the pocket. He didnt look comfortable. The arm is great, decent accuracy, and has the size, but I would stay away from this guy.

Missing some throws in one game isnt going to hurt him, but in my opinion, Cutler is just a prototype QB, without the intangibles.

I think the best option for you guys would be to trade the 1st for Rivers, instead of drafting a QB with your 1st.
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Don't take the Senior Bowl as a true reflection of Cutler's future career, we were all hoping he'd have a terrible game, and he did. Now maybe we can get a shot at him. I'd go back to some college tape and evaluate his pocket presence at different stages of the game before I give up on him.

However, I do agree that Rivers will be better than Cutler (and Rivers is seasoned now, we don't have to wait two years). If we could get him for our first and Madison, I would do it. But I doubt San Diego lets him go with Brees' injury.
 
stats aren't very good indicators on a player's pro potential. a guy like cutler is still somewhat young as a pure passer, and with the talent around him, it's to be expected that he wouldn't put up great numbers. he's still not even close to being fully developed yet as a quarterback. i hope we draft him, but i dont expect him to come in and light it up right away
 
Jay Cutler is the real deal, I love his quick release and he has a cannon for an arm.
 
Miami_Dolphins said:
Alright, i'm going to grade the following players at QB, and give our chances of getting him, scale of 1-10, and my personal opinions of some of the more well-known guys.

*note-COG is affected not only by our chances, but the likeyhood that the team actually takes him. It is not solely based on just if they will be there


2006 Draft Class
Matt Leinart-Grade: A Chances of Getting(COG): 0
Leinart is a marvelous talent, but no way we get him

Vince Young-Grade: A+ COG: 0
Again, amazing talent, no chance in hell we get him

Jay Cutler-Grade: C+ COG: 5
Excessive scrambler, cannon of an arm, mobile, Bad time management, Not the type of QB miami is looking for. Mobile, yes, but needs to learn to look for recievers instead of running as soon as the pocket starts to cave.

Darrell Hackney-Grade: C- COG: 3

Brodie Croyle-Grade: C COG: 7

Omar Jacobs-Grade: B+ COG: 9
AMAZING talent, great arm, mobile, team leader, confidence. He's got a lot of talent. Needs to work on mechanics and develop as a player, but a grade A player.

Charlie Whitehurst-Grade: C COG: 2
Stats show hes not that great, but a good senior bowl will raise his stock.

Reggie McNeal-Grade: C COG: 2

Macus Vick-Grade:C+/B- COG: 6
Has an off-field issue, but if that can be taken care of, he too would be a late round steal. Plenty of Talent, more of a Qb than his brother.

Kellen Clemens-Grade:C+ COG: 4

Michael Robinson-Grade: C+ COG: 5
Fast, Athletic, strong arm. Remind you of someone? He shouldnt, Robinson should become a WR or safety, but even if he stays at QB, not a bad late round choice.



The rest will come shortly.
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So your say kellen clemens is just as good a prospect as jay cutler? Its 1 thing to not believe in the hype of cutler but its another thing to not give him credit for his talent. Cutler has the potential to be the best qb in the class scouts see it, as do many of the top draft analysis. If you dont like him thats fine but dont be niave.
 
Dphins said:
Watched the Senior Bowl and the Practice's on the NFL Netork. With all the talk about Cutler he didn't seem to stand out to me. To me Cutler Croyle Whitehurst were the best QB's at the Senior bowl. However, you probally have to spend a first on Cutler and he didn't look superior to the other two that you wouldn't have to give up a first round pick for. Whitehurst reminds me a little of Brady doesn't have a huge arm but seems to have a feel for the game and Croyle seems to have a rocket but injuries are a concern. I wouldn't mind taking Croyle, whiterhust, or Omar Jacobs as long as it isnt' it the first round.
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Whitehurst doesn't have a huge arm? Are you kidding me? He was just using touch.
 
DaBills4life said:
Cutler looked like JP Losman in the pocket to me. I dont see a presence in the pocket. He didnt look comfortable. The arm is great, decent accuracy, and has the size, but I would stay away from this guy.

Missing some throws in one game isnt going to hurt him, but in my opinion, Cutler is just a prototype QB, without the intangibles.

I think the best option for you guys would be to trade the 1st for Rivers, instead of drafting a QB with your 1st.
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Don't let the Senior Bowl fool you! He was playing with guys he had no chemistry built up with and had 5 days of practice with. One of the things you mention as a negative (pocket presence) is one of his intangibles I believe. The guy is a natural leader who commands respect in the huddle and has all the tools to back it up. I would take Cutler over Rivers any day and twice on Sunday!:shakeno:
 
Miami_Dolphins said:
Jay Cutler-Grade: C+ COG: 5
Excessive scrambler, cannon of an arm, mobile, Bad time management, Not the type of QB miami is looking for. Mobile, yes, but needs to learn to look for recievers instead of running as soon as the pocket starts to cave.

 Omar Jacobs-Grade: B+ COG: 9
AMAZING talent, great arm, mobile, team leader, confidence. He's got a lot of talent. Needs to work on mechanics and develop as a player, but a grade A player.

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Not even close to their real grades. The reason why Cutler had to move out of the pocket so much was because his line was awful. I think that is going to have an affect on him early because he is still a little shell shocked, but with good coaching he can overcome that. He still has a lightning release, great arm strength, and good accuracy. And even though you think he is "not the type of QB Miami is looking for" Saban seems to disagree becase multiple sources have reported he is very interested in him and he has met with him twice. Jacobs is a good prospect but has ALOT to work on and will take at least two years probably more on the bench to learn how to be an NFL QB.

As for your QB A, B, and C debate. Here's one for you:

QB A: 9565 yards passing in 3 years starting, 86 TD's, 28 INT's

QB B: 4548 yards in two years starting, 22 TD's, 26 INT's

QB C: 5400 yards in 3 years starting, 23 TD's, 32 INT's

I'll even add a QB D: 3763 yards passing in one full year starting 32 TD's 8 INT's

Can you guess which QBs turned out to be great NFL QB's and which ones didn't? Not based on the statistics because your college statistics have more to do with who is on your team and who you play against rather than how good you are.

EDIT: For those who are interested
A-Ken Dorsey
B-Matt Hasselbeck
C-Trent Green
D-Akili Smith
 
Lazy1 said:
So your say kellen clemens is just as good a prospect as jay cutler? Its 1 thing to not believe in the hype of cutler but its another thing to not give him credit for his talent. Cutler has the potential to be the best qb in the class scouts see it, as do many of the top draft analysis. If you dont like him thats fine but dont be niave.
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Cutler: 710/1242 attempts 57.1%, 59 TD, 36 INT, avg. 2,174 yds/season

Clemens: 613/1005, 61%, 71 TD, 24 INT, avg 1,890 yds/season, and thats with one year (2002) where he barely played


Dont like career stats?

Cutler (2005): 273/462, 59.8%, 21 TD, 9 INT, 126 Rating
Clemens (2005): 185/289, 64%, 19 TD, 4 INT, 153 Rating

"Well, Cutler is mobile and that makes hm a more complete player"
Not really, Cutler was sacked about 23 times, Clemens? Eight.




Yeah, I'd say clemens is just as good, IF not better.
 
Miami_Dolphins said:
Cutler: 710/1242 attempts 57.1%, 59 TD, 36 INT, avg. 2,174 yds/season

Clemens: 613/1005, 61%, 71 TD, 24 INT, avg 1,890 yds/season, and thats with one year (2002) where he barely played


Dont like career stats?

Cutler (2005): 273/462, 59.8%, 21 TD, 9 INT, 126 Rating
Clemens (2005): 185/289, 64%, 19 TD, 4 INT, 153 Rating


Yeah, I'd say clemens is just as good, IF not better.
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Sorry but that's a foolish argument in its entirety. The players don't project the same to the NFL as they did in college. Clemens isn't even close to Cutler in that regard.
 
Jaj said:
Sorry but that's a foolish argument in its entirety. The players don't project the same to the NFL as they did in college. Clemens isn't even close to Cutler in that regard.
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Again, Narrow-minded cutler supporters. I DONT CARE WHAT HES PROJECTED TO DO. He can be PROJECTED TO GO FIRST OVERALL AND WIN 900 SUPERBOWLS, BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING.

Stats speak louder than projections my friend.
 
Miami_Dolphins said:
Again, Narrow-minded cutler supporters. I DONT CARE WHAT HES PROJECTED TO DO. He can be PROJECTED TO GO FIRST OVERALL AND WIN 900 SUPERBOWLS, BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING.

Stats speak louder than projections my friend.
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Ya and I guess Kliff Kingsbury is going to the Pro Bowl for that reason? :rolleyes:
 
Miami_Dolphins said:
Again, Narrow-minded cutler supporters. I DONT CARE WHAT HES PROJECTED TO DO. He can be PROJECTED TO GO FIRST OVERALL AND WIN 900 SUPERBOWLS, BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING.

Stats speak louder than projections my friend.
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No they don't. Read my post above and you'll see why.
 
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