Dajesus
Active Roster
thanks for the help. I did aleady post the just about the same ting though.
The Heisman
- Thread starter Dajesus
- Start date
RobertHoover
Convinced WCF is a moron
I saw your list, I pulled just The Pac-10 and as you said, yards are not hard to come by out west.
Cranx
☠️ Banned ☠️
First off, the dillusional comment was perhaps a bit strong, sorry about that DJ, but otherwise, you're all completely underestimating, and downplaying the significance of Palmer's season. Yes, there are some prolific passers in the Pac-10, as there are in virtually every every conference except the Big 10 which seems to think the option is still en vouge. The numbers themselves are impressive but do not make Palmer the exceptional candidate that he is, it's who he played those games against that makes the numbers impressive!
DJ, you posted that Palmer garnered most of his yards against the "cupcake" portion of USC's schedule, my question to you would be, when was that? Every single one of the teams you mentioned in that "cupcake" portion, were or are ranked teams with the exception of Arizona and Stanford. Oregon, UCLA, Washington, and UCLA are all tough teams. That doesn't include the non-conference games that were all against tough opponents.
Again, in case you didn't catch this the first time:
USC HAD THE #1 TOUGHEST SCHEDULE OF ANY DIVISION IA SCHOOL IN THE ENTIRE NATION.
Miami's schedule doesn't even come close as they had the 48th toughest schedule in the nation (I don't have the stats on the other teams.)
In other words, Palmers numbers becom exponentially more impressive when you compare them to what he had to face in order to achieve them. Larry Johnson on the other hand simply did not have a schedule that was anywhere near as tough and Penn State's three losses came against the only three ranked teams on their schedule- this kind of stat does not a Heisman winner make.
DJ, you posted that Palmer garnered most of his yards against the "cupcake" portion of USC's schedule, my question to you would be, when was that? Every single one of the teams you mentioned in that "cupcake" portion, were or are ranked teams with the exception of Arizona and Stanford. Oregon, UCLA, Washington, and UCLA are all tough teams. That doesn't include the non-conference games that were all against tough opponents.
Again, in case you didn't catch this the first time:
USC HAD THE #1 TOUGHEST SCHEDULE OF ANY DIVISION IA SCHOOL IN THE ENTIRE NATION.
Miami's schedule doesn't even come close as they had the 48th toughest schedule in the nation (I don't have the stats on the other teams.)
In other words, Palmers numbers becom exponentially more impressive when you compare them to what he had to face in order to achieve them. Larry Johnson on the other hand simply did not have a schedule that was anywhere near as tough and Penn State's three losses came against the only three ranked teams on their schedule- this kind of stat does not a Heisman winner make.
Ask the Miami players who is the best player on the team, and who should win. They say Dorsey. I think they know better then all of us who is the best player on their team.
The Heisman is for the best PLAYER in the coutry THIS YEAR. How can you give it to Dorsy who is not even the best player on his team. Dorsey is a product of the people around him.
As far as the other 4, you can make a case for any of them, but the politics of it point to Palmer.
As far as the other 4, you can make a case for any of them, but the politics of it point to Palmer.
Dajesus
Active Roster
The fact still remains he struggled against every ranked team he played besides Notre Dame who were not plyaing good football when he played them. The Pac-10 is not a defenseive confernece. If you can find one other major conference that had 5 QBs pass for 3000 yards I will retract last statement. his stats don't stick out against the other QBs in his conference more less all QBs of all time. Kliff Kingburry played a very tough schedule and threw for 1000 more yards and 6 more tds than Palmer, so wouldn't he be a better Heisman canadate?
The cupcake comment was more about the defenses on the lower half teams in the pac 10. UCLA, Washington, Stanford, Arizona, and most of all Oregon have horrible defenses, and those are the games he racked up the stats. He was average at best when he played Colorado, K St, Auburn, and Cal.
I still say he had a great year, but LJ season stands up against the best all time at RB. No matter how hard his schedule was you can't say that about Palmer. You can't even say he had the best year of any QB.
Dajesus
Active Roster
I have to say 1 more thing EXPO. Yes Palemr played a tough schedule and put up good numbers over the year 3600 yards 32 tds. There was another QB who played another very very tough schedule and put up much better numbers. Kliff Kingsburry played Col, Iwoa St, Texas, Oaklahoma, oh yeah and the #2 team in the nation who possibly has the best defense in the nation Ohio St. In the Ohio St game he passed for 300 yards and 4 tds. Overall he passed for 4600 yards 1000 more than Plamer, and 42 tds 10 more than Palmer. So again how do Palmer's stats "surpass" all other Qb's stats?
Jaydog57
Crank Yanker
Every player up for the Heisman is a product of the people around him. The running backs are in it 'cause they have good blockers and the QB's are in it 'cause they have decent lineman who give them time to decide where to throw the ball or run with it or whatever. You can't single out one guy and say he's only in the running because he's on a good team. Ken Dorsey was turning heads when he was still a freshman backup to Kenny Kelly. He started his sophomore year and has had an amazing college career. I love how EVERYBODY deserves the Heisman but Dorsey.
Can people not read??
Read my entire initial post again and it states, undeniably, why it should be Dorsey. He is the best player at his position in the country. There is more to playing QB than stats i.e.' Joe Montana.
Like winning
Geez.
Read my entire initial post again and it states, undeniably, why it should be Dorsey. He is the best player at his position in the country. There is more to playing QB than stats i.e.' Joe Montana.
Like winning
Geez.
Cranx
☠️ Banned ☠️
But he's clearly not the best at his position, much less the best player in the country, and therefore should not win the Heisman (unless of course Lee Corso gets his way.) He's only the third best QB in the Heisman voting, and that's only because there aren't guys like Jason Gesser, Byron Leftwich, & Dave Ragone up there with him, otherwise he'd fall somewhere down the ladder.
How you can say that "he is the best player at his position in the country" is absurd when there is literally a slew of QB's who're better. Even the award presenters up to this point have recognized that as both Palmer and Banks have received awards, and Dorsey's been blanked.
I know I'm fighting a losing battle here with a bunch of guys who're from Florida and homering for their guy- in a way, I'm doing the same thing. The difference is, I've actually watched Dorsey play on several occasions whereas none of you that are making the argument against Palmer can say the same since USC games are usually on too late for the East Coast fan, or they're simply not shown at all.
Dorsey doesn't deserve this award and, were it not for the fact that he's surrounded by an incredible team chock full of NFL talent, he wouldn't even be at the presentation tonight.
Dajesus
Active Roster
Fin-atic if this were a lifetime award Dorsey would take it, but it is only for 2002. Honestly I am Canes fan, and he wouldn't even be on my ballot.
We will find out in a few hours, and this thread will get new life. If I had a vote here is my ballot.
Larry Johnson
Brad Banks
Kliff Kingsburry
Carson Palmer
Willis McGahee
We will find out in a few hours, and this thread will get new life. If I had a vote here is my ballot.
Larry Johnson
Brad Banks
Kliff Kingsburry
Carson Palmer
Willis McGahee
Cranx
☠️ Banned ☠️
Well I'd obviously vote differently but I suppose we're going to find out in just a couple of hours anyway so then we can argue about who should've gotten the Heisman and why the guy who got it did/didn't deserve it. :D
Just for the record:
Everyone says that Dorsey is a product of the great team around him. He just lost the Heisman so I hope you all are happy.
What I can't figure out if the "team" is so great, and its not Kenny, then how come NO ONE on Miami received awards, excuse me Romberg got the obscure award for best center. Gee at 38-1 and if the "team" is so strong they, or someone would be raking it in. No Outland, No Butkus, No Doak Walker, No Walter Camp, nothing. Nothing for the most dominant team in the history of college ball. And to top it off the two UM players finished at the bottom of the HEisman vote!! If this doesn't stink of prejudice, I don't know what does. It sBullsh*t.
Its a sham. Its a crock. Its a media darling game. The media went through it all year, Grossman, then Leftwich, then Seneca Wallace, then Larry Johnson or Carson Palmer. ANYONE but a UM player.
They and all of you can kiss Kenny's narrow, narrow behind. He is the man and he knows it, his team knows it, and deep in the hearts of many they know it. Kenny got screwed.
F ___the Hiesman.:fire:
Everyone says that Dorsey is a product of the great team around him. He just lost the Heisman so I hope you all are happy.
What I can't figure out if the "team" is so great, and its not Kenny, then how come NO ONE on Miami received awards, excuse me Romberg got the obscure award for best center. Gee at 38-1 and if the "team" is so strong they, or someone would be raking it in. No Outland, No Butkus, No Doak Walker, No Walter Camp, nothing. Nothing for the most dominant team in the history of college ball. And to top it off the two UM players finished at the bottom of the HEisman vote!! If this doesn't stink of prejudice, I don't know what does. It sBullsh*t.
Its a sham. Its a crock. Its a media darling game. The media went through it all year, Grossman, then Leftwich, then Seneca Wallace, then Larry Johnson or Carson Palmer. ANYONE but a UM player.
They and all of you can kiss Kenny's narrow, narrow behind. He is the man and he knows it, his team knows it, and deep in the hearts of many they know it. Kenny got screwed.
F ___the Hiesman.:fire:
Dajesus
Active Roster
His players did rake it in, there were 12 UM players drafted last year. There will be another 6-12 players taken this year.
Honestly instead of ranting and raveing make a case for Dorsey. His record is very nice, but so is his team. Beyond that his stats don't pop out at you, and when it came down to the big game of the season McGahee carried this team on his back, not Dorsey.
Dajesus
Active Roster
Congrats EXPO. I still don't think he deserved it, but I got out voted. This is bad for you though. Now he won't amount to anything in the NFL. Not only will he have to overcome the Heisman jinx, but it is quite possible he will have to overcome the Bengals' jinx.