Universaldraft.com's Updated Mock Draft 4/4/09 - 2 Rounds

[Conuficus]

Actually, I'm not that big on Harvin either. If you asked me for my WR rankings, it would be as follows:

1. Crabtree
2. Maclin
3. Heyward-Bey
4. Britt
5. Nicks
6. Harvin

I think Kenny Britt is better than Nicks and is the best fit for Miami. He is a bigger target at 6'3", stronger, harder to tackle, and a better jumpball WR.

And my original point was that Nicks at #17 is a reach, and I stand by that statement.

The reach is fine, I can live with that. But the Nicks being the 5th receiver,.....nah not in my world. Britt is a tough choice. Like I said, it may be 3 and 3a.

By the way, I was just watching Mike Mayock's top 10 in his Mock and Crabtree is not in there, but he has both Heyward-Bey and Maclin going in the top ten.

Monroe goes to KC and kicks Branden Albert over. Now that I don't see that at all. But what do I know.

 

[DKphin]

Of course not, there's no chance, no one ever falls, ever. I love the rolling eyes though. Nice touch.

Any player can fall for any reason, happens every year. Some guy will inexplicably fall whilst another guy will be a reach. Brady Quinn, Aaron Rodgers,...........hell even Donald Thomas was rated 2 rounds higher than he was taken as an example.

Everyone loves Harvin on message boards, but how good is he really? He's a highly unpolished receiver who may be a luxury pick for many teams. He's certainly not a player with a real position, because he didn't even have one in college. I mean do you value that guy, who will need a lot of work more than a guy who has played a position for years, and you don't have to teach him the basics. Coupled with him having a position that routinely sees a high degree of busts and it could see him fall. Is he going to play 20+ snaps a game at this stage? If not, then you're really taking a part time player pretty early. Is he going to start for the team that takes him and by passes players like Kenny Britt along the way? The 20 snaps thing may mislead you, but if that guy is gonna play 20+, and there is an injury to another player at the same position, then do you put Harvin as the starter? How many people would be comfortable with that.

Ginn was far more polished than Harvin, and everyone said he was raw, and still is. Ginn should have been taken later than he was. Is Harving a better propsect than Ginn, as a wide receiver?

Who takes him? And why? Seriously?

I don't like having Maclin where he is, but I can't see the Jags taking a corner that high, no defensive tackle, no linebacker............quarterback maybe, but that isn't great either. At least he was used more as a wide receiver than Harvin, and he's raw as all hell. I even have Nicks going pretty high, is Harvin better than Nicks?

Is he explosive? Yes. Is he a good player? Yeah. But is he really worth a first rounder?

Harvin won't get out of the first round. If he does, some one will have just got one of the best value picks in the history of the draft.

 

[Conuficus]

Harvin won't get out of the first round. If he does, some one will have just got one of the best value picks in the history of the draft.

Why? I ask again, what about him makes it so?

 

[MiamiHitman13]

The reach is fine, I can live with that. But the Nicks being the 5th receiver,.....nah not in my world. Britt is a tough choice. Like I said, it may be 3 and 3a.

By the way, I was just watching Mike Mayock's top 10 in his Mock and Crabtree is not in there, but he has both Heyward-Bey and Maclin going in the top ten.

Monroe goes to KC and kicks Branden Albert over. Now that I don't see that at all. But what do I know.

I like DHB because of his size, speed, and his development (he learns quicker than he is given credit for). He has no off-field issues and a good work ethic. What are his biggest knocks? He is a little spotty catching the football and his route-running isn't perfect. He is still learning.

Now the ball-catching could be a concern, but he is getting better at it all the time. And the route-running is kind of silly to me. Running routes is not rocket science. That can be taught over time. You cannot teach size and speed, which he has both of. He has the making of a superstar. He will need good coaching in the nfl, and if he gets it, look out!

As far as the Britt and Nicks comparison, the thing that really separates Britt from Nicks (in my opinion) is the run-after-catch. Now, Nicks is no slouch with the run-after-catch, but Britt is just a beast. I'm sure you have seen plenty of videos of both - Britt seems more electric with the ball and can hit the corner and turn it up the sideline better than Nicks can on crossing patterns. He is always breaking tackles and he carries defenders for multiple yards after first contact. He needs to be gang-tackled, and even then, the defenders really have to work at getting him down. I just don't see that with Nicks, at least not at the same level as Britt.

Also, Britt is a better redzone target. He is taller, stronger, a better jumper, and is quicker in a small area (which leads to separation from defenders), and I believe he has longer arms.

 

[Conuficus]

Now the ball-catching could be a concern, but he is getting better at it all the time. And the route-running is kind of silly to me. Running routes is not rocket science. That can be taught over time. You cannot teach size and speed, which he has both of. He has the making of a superstar. He will need good coaching in the nfl, and if he gets it, look out!

The route running thing may seem silly, but all the coaching in the world can't change a player's ability to gear down or up. They can teach you technique, but you still have to do it. He rounds routes badly, stands up when he's going to make a break and lets himself get all out of whack when he does. Sure he can be taught stuff, but as of right now, he doesn't have it like others do (Nicks is better, as is Britt), so to me that makes him less of a prospect. The more work I have to put in, the bigger the risk.

The ball catching is an issue, sure.

Nicks, Britt is as I said maybe 1 and 1a ( not saying that the rankings, but you get the idea. )

 

[MiamiHitman13]

Here is another link of prospect rankings. This one doesn't have Nicks (or Britt) in the top five. This one is by Mike Mayock (I really respect this guy's opinion):

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80dff358&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true


Mike Mayock's top prospects by position for the 2009 NFL Draft

Rank Player School Comment




Quarterbacks

1 *Matthew Stafford Georgia Elite arm, inconsistent in pocket
2 *Mark Sanchez USC Tremendous skills, 16 college starts
3 *Josh Freeman Kansas State Tremendous arm/athletic, speed-up process
4 Pat White West Virginia No comment
5 Rhett Bomar Sam Houston State Makes throws, sloppy on occasion​

Running backs

1 *Knowshon Moreno Georgia Lateral quickness, love his finish
2 *Chris "Beanie" Wells Ohio State Downhill runner, inconsistent durability
3 *Donald Brown Connecticut Great quickness, makes people miss, patient
4 *Andre Brown North Carolina State No comment
5 *LeSean McCoy Pittsburgh Vision and cutback ability, questionable long speed​

Fullback

1 Tony Fiammetta Syracuase Old-school blocker, robotic-but-able receiver
2 Quinn Johnson LSU Lead blocker/special teams, 5 career catches
3 Brannan Southerland Georgia Versatile blocker and receiver, durability issues​

Wide receivers

1 *Michael Crabtree Texas Tech Great ball skills/competitor, questionable long speed
2 *Jeremy Maclin Missouri Explosive R.A.C., production/added value RS
3 *Percy Harvin Florida Big-play ability, durability/usage
4 *Darrius Heyward-Bey Maryland H-W-S specimen, inconsistent hands
5 *Brian Robiskie Ohio State No comment​

Tight ends

1 Brandon Pettigrew Oklahoma State Old-school TE like Jason Witten, not a blazer
2 Shawn Nelson Southern Miss Gifted vertical receiver, willing blocker
3 Cornelius Ingram Florida Gifted athlete, missed '08 (torn ACL)
4 *James Casey Rice Natural ball skills, not a blocker
5 Chase Coffman Missouri Great frame and hands, average speed/never in-line​

Centers

1 Max Unger Oregon 4-position OL, will struggle with speed
2 Eric Wood Louisville Tough guy/finishes well, struggles to redirect feet
3 Alex Mack California Intelligent/great technique, on ground too much
4 A.Q. Shipley Penn State Short arms/good player, understands technique/leverage
5 Antoine Caldwell Alabama Can play all 3 interior OL spots, tough guy​

Guards

1 Andy Levitre Oregon State Former LT, must kick inside
2 Duke Robinson Oklahoma Massive brawler, will struggle with speed
3 Kraig Urbik Wisconsin 4-position OL, solid technician/long career
4 Tyronne Green Auburn Tremendous Senior Bowl week, great initial pop/must sustain
5 Herman Johnson LSU Largest baby in La. history, scheme-specific player​

Offensive tackles

1 Eugene Monroe Virginia Kept Branden Albert at guard, gifted pass protector
2 Jason Smith Baylor Think Ryan Clady, needs run-game improvement
3 *Andre Smith Alabama Surprisingly nimble feet, beware weight fluctuation
4 Michael Oher Mississippi Naturally gifted LT, highly inconsistent
5 *Eben Britton Arizona Solid technician, needs more sand in pants​

Defensive ends

1 Robert Ayers Tennessee Great burst at Senior Bowl, one-year wonder?
2 Tyson Jackson LSU Scheme diverse, might kick inside
3 Everette Brown Florida State Right DE or rush LB, significant upside
4 Paul Kruger Utah Great motor/stacks edge, not an elite edge burst
5 Michael Johnson Georgia Tech Too much bad tape​

Defensive tackles
1 B.J. Raji Boston College Run stuffer can push pocket, stay at 328 pounds!!!
2 Peria Jerry Mississippi 1-gap penetrator, must stay healthy
3 Evander "Ziggy" Hood Missouri Energizer Bunny, scheme will be crucial
4 Ron Brace Boston College Gifted run defender, limited pass-rush ability
5 Fili Moala USC Physical specimen, must be more consistent​

Inside linebackers
1 Rey Maualuga USC Explosive point of attack, can struggle in space
2 James Laurinaitis Ohio State Consistent technician, clean off the field
3 Jasper Brinkley South Carolina No comment
4 Darry Beckwith LSU Athletic and solid tackler, engulfed by big bodies
5 Dannell Ellerbe Georgia Can cover/blitz, question durability and instincts​

Outside linebackers
1 Aaron Curry Wake Forest Scheme diverse/high-level performer, safest pick in draft
2 Brian Orakpo Texas Talented conversion guy, explosive off edge
3 Brian Cushing USC Love attitude/passion, 4-3 SAM/3-4 ILB?
4 Clay Matthews USC No comment
T-5th Larry English Northern Illinois Can run the arc, level of competition
T-5th Aaron Maybin Penn State No comment​

Cornerbacks
1 *Vontae Davis Illinois Highly gifted skill-set, inconsistent on, off field
2 Malcolm Jenkins Ohio State Great length/very physical, CB or FS?
3 Darius Butler Connecticut Best feet/C.O.D. at Senior Bowl, must tackle consistently
4 Alphonso Smith Wake Forest Great instincts/ball skills, size/speed questions
5 *Jairus Byrd Vanderbilt Quick feet/thin frame, loves to compete​

Safeties
1 Louis Delmas Western Michigan Aggressive vs. run/good tackler, average in man-to-man
2 Patrick Chung Oregon Very solid box safety, likes press/dislikes off-man
3 Rashad Johnson Alabama Made 11 INTs in two years, CB body
4 William Moore Missouri Jekyll or Hyde, physically gifted
5 Darcel McBath Texas Tech Former CB with range/speed, 7 INTs as senior​

 

[DOC33]

Why? I ask again, what about him makes it so?

I would take Mike Thomas from AZ over Harvin. Similar player but Thomas is quicker, has more wiggle and has been playing reciever full time so the learning curve is bound to be smaller. Harvin went to the big time program so everyone knows about him but there are other players in this draft with similar skill sets that can be had a round or two later than Harvin.

 

[Conuficus]

Here is another link of prospect rankings. This one doesn't have Nicks (or Britt) in the top five. This one by Mike Mayock (I really respect this guy's opinion):

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80dff358&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true


Mike Mayock's top prospects by position for the 2009 NFL Draft

Rank Player School Comment



Quarterbacks

1 *Matthew Stafford Georgia Elite arm, inconsistent in pocket

2 *Mark Sanchez USC Tremendous skills, 16 college starts
3 *Josh Freeman Kansas State Tremendous arm/athletic, speed-up process
4 Pat White West Virginia No comment
5 Rhett Bomar Sam Houston State Makes throws, sloppy on occasion​

Running backs

1 *Knowshon Moreno Georgia Lateral quickness, love his finish

2 *Chris "Beanie" Wells Ohio State Downhill runner, inconsistent durability
3 *Donald Brown Connecticut Great quickness, makes people miss, patient
4 *Andre Brown North Carolina State No comment
5 *LeSean McCoy Pittsburgh Vision and cutback ability, questionable long speed​

Fullback

1 Tony Fiammetta Syracuase Old-school blocker, robotic-but-able receiver

2 Quinn Johnson LSU Lead blocker/special teams, 5 career catches
3 Brannan Southerland Georgia Versatile blocker and receiver, durability issues​

Wide receivers

1 *Michael Crabtree Texas Tech Great ball skills/competitor, questionable long speed

2 *Jeremy Maclin Missouri Explosive R.A.C., production/added value RS
3 *Percy Harvin Florida Big-play ability, durability/usage
4 *Darrius Heyward-Bey Maryland H-W-S specimen, inconsistent hands
5 *Brian Robiskie Ohio State No comment​

Tight ends

1 Brandon Pettigrew Oklahoma State Old-school TE like Jason Witten, not a blazer

2 Shawn Nelson Southern Miss Gifted vertical receiver, willing blocker
3 Cornelius Ingram Florida Gifted athlete, missed '08 (torn ACL)
4 *James Casey Rice Natural ball skills, not a blocker
5 Chase Coffman Missouri Great frame and hands, average speed/never in-line​

Centers

1 Max Unger Oregon 4-position OL, will struggle with speed

2 Eric Wood Louisville Tough guy/finishes well, struggles to redirect feet
3 Alex Mack California Intelligent/great technique, on ground too much
4 A.Q. Shipley Penn State Short arms/good player, understands technique/leverage
5 Antoine Caldwell Alabama Can play all 3 interior OL spots, tough guy​

Guards

1 Andy Levitre Oregon State Former LT, must kick inside

2 Duke Robinson Oklahoma Massive brawler, will struggle with speed
3 Kraig Urbik Wisconsin 4-position OL, solid technician/long career
4 Tyronne Green Auburn Tremendous Senior Bowl week, great initial pop/must sustain
5 Herman Johnson LSU Largest baby in La. history, scheme-specific player​

Offensive tackles

1 Eugene Monroe Virginia Kept Branden Albert at guard, gifted pass protector

2 Jason Smith Baylor Think Ryan Clady, needs run-game improvement
3 *Andre Smith Alabama Surprisingly nimble feet, beware weight fluctuation
4 Michael Oher Mississippi Naturally gifted LT, highly inconsistent
5 *Eben Britton Arizona Solid technician, needs more sand in pants​

Defensive ends

1 Robert Ayers Tennessee Great burst at Senior Bowl, one-year wonder?

2 Tyson Jackson LSU Scheme diverse, might kick inside
3 Everette Brown Florida State Right DE or rush LB, significant upside
4 Paul Kruger Utah Great motor/stacks edge, not an elite edge burst
5 Michael Johnson Georgia Tech Too much bad tape​

Defensive tackles
1 B.J. Raji Boston College Run stuffer can push pocket, stay at 328 pounds!!!
2 Peria Jerry Mississippi 1-gap penetrator, must stay healthy
3 Evander "Ziggy" Hood Missouri Energizer Bunny, scheme will be crucial
4 Ron Brace Boston College Gifted run defender, limited pass-rush ability
5 Fili Moala USC Physical specimen, must be more consistent​

Inside linebackers
1 Rey Maualuga USC Explosive point of attack, can struggle in space
2 James Laurinaitis Ohio State Consistent technician, clean off the field
3 Jasper Brinkley South Carolina No comment
4 Darry Beckwith LSU Athletic and solid tackler, engulfed by big bodies
5 Dannell Ellerbe Georgia Can cover/blitz, question durability and instincts​

Outside linebackers
1 Aaron Curry Wake Forest Scheme diverse/high-level performer, safest pick in draft
2 Brian Orakpo Texas Talented conversion guy, explosive off edge
3 Brian Cushing USC Love attitude/passion, 4-3 SAM/3-4 ILB?
4 Clay Matthews USC No comment
T-5th Larry English Northern Illinois Can run the arc, level of competition
T-5th Aaron Maybin Penn State No comment​

Cornerbacks
1 *Vontae Davis Illinois Highly gifted skill-set, inconsistent on, off field
2 Malcolm Jenkins Ohio State Great length/very physical, CB or FS?
3 Darius Butler Connecticut Best feet/C.O.D. at Senior Bowl, must tackle consistently
4 Alphonso Smith Wake Forest Great instincts/ball skills, size/speed questions
5 *Jairus Byrd Vanderbilt Quick feet/thin frame, loves to compete​

Safeties
1 Louis Delmas Western Michigan Aggressive vs. run/good tackler, average in man-to-man
2 Patrick Chung Oregon Very solid box safety, likes press/dislikes off-man
3 Rashad Johnson Alabama Made 11 INTs in two years, CB body
4 William Moore Missouri Jekyll or Hyde, physically gifted
5 Darcel McBath Texas Tech Former CB with range/speed, 7 INTs as senior​

Have you seen his top 10 in his Mock? He he has Heyward-Bey and Maclin going before Crabtree and in the top 8. So to of his top 5 are bypassed already. The same guy he ragged on at the Combine - Andre Smith is at 6 even though he said he could be a guard.

I like Mayock, but that top 10 he just did on Path to the Draft was insane. And you guys think I've reached? Check it out if you find it. It is out of the blue though, how he did it.

 

[jim1]

Why? I ask again, what about him makes it so?

Well, let' see:

-strong, benches 405

- super fast http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=626420

- super quick

- can play rb and in wildcat, although the wildcat aspect isn't huge for me

- was a man among boys at UF

- lit up the championship game on a trashed ankle

- Urban Meyer said that he was one of the most ungodly talents he's ever coached, and that if given the opportunity he could have had combined 200 yards/game.

- according to reports he wowed scouts with his route running at his pro day

- he's a very solid 5-11, 200 lbs.

The question in my mind is what about him makes him not so special? And the Ginn comparisons are retarded.

As a sidenote, there are so many pot/steroids rumors floating, I'd like to let the official word come out before sifting thrugh the clutter, that applies to Clay Mathews, too.

 

[MiamiHitman13]

Have you seen his top 10 in his Mock? He he has Heyward-Bey and Maclin going before Crabtree and in the top 8. So to of his top 5 are bypassed already. The same guy he ragged on at the Combine - Andre Smith is at 6 even though he said he could be a guard.

I like Mayock, but that top 10 he just did on Path to the Draft was insane. And you guys think I've reached? Check it out if you find it. It is out of the blue though, how he did it.

Yea, I just watched it a minute ago.. Here is the link for anyone that wants to watch it. http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f99143

It's a good discussion. He said he is trying to anticipate what teams will do, that is why he has DHB to the Raiders. Al Davis loves the super-athletic players, thats why he takes DHB over Crabtree.

 

[DKphin]

Well, let' see:

-strong, benches 405

- super fast http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=626420

- super quick

- can play rb and in wildcat, although the wildcat aspect isn't huge for me

- was a man among boys at UF

- lit up the championship game on a trashed ankle

- Urban Meyer said that he was one of the most ungodly talents he's ever coached, and that if given the opportunity he could have had combined 200 yards/game.

- according to reports he wowed scouts with his route running at his pro day

- he's a very solid 5-11, 200 lbs.

The question in my mind is what about him makes him not so special? And the Ginn comparisons are retarded.

As a sidenote, there are so many pot/steroids rumors floating, I'd like to let the official word come out before sifting thrugh the clutter, that applies to Clay Mathews, too.

Thanks for the reply. I could not have said it better myself.

 

[jim1]

Thanks for the reply. I could not have said it better myself.

You're welcome. Even this guy could see what is special about Harvin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw6D_QfsmUY

I suggest that we draft Roy Batty for special teams duty.

 

[Conuficus]

Well, let' see:

-strong, benches 405

- super fast http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=626420

- super quick

- can play rb and in wildcat, although the wildcat aspect isn't huge for me

- was a man among boys at UF

- lit up the championship game on a trashed ankle

- Urban Meyer said that he was one of the most ungodly talents he's ever coached, and that if given the opportunity he could have had combined 200 yards/game.

- according to reports he wowed scouts with his route running at his pro day

- he's a very solid 5-11, 200 lbs.

The question in my mind is what about him makes him not so special? And the Ginn comparisons are retarded.

As a sidenote, there are so many pot/steroids rumors floating, I'd like to let the official word come out before sifting thrugh the clutter, that applies to Clay Mathews, too.

The official word has come out. There were no reported positives for the players mentioned. Raji has the weed thing, that has the most legs. But the other have been refuted quite a few times by credible people.

And I see you're still up to the quick little quips. Retarded? I compared them in terms of refinement, but I'm sure you noticed that, before it became retarded I'm sure. Some things never change sadly.

So he ran great routes against air? That only means so much, we both know that.

His strength really is of little consequence in terms of bench for a wide receiver. An O-lineman maybe more, but even still that isn't the best test of football strength.

The not so special part I addressed in the posts before this became retarded. You should be able to find it.

And if the guy could get that yardage, I have to ask why not give him the chance - he was the play caller wasn't he? He had the opportunity to give him more chances, but didn't. Why, if he could be so great and accumulate all that yardage? Seems funny he had the guy at his disposal all those years and couldn't help him reach those goals.

I don't have as high as you, thats fine, but to compare two players based on being raw, and thats the extent of the comparison is perfectly sensible. Retarded? Interesting.

 

[jim1]

The official word has come out. There were no reported positives for the players mentioned. Raji has the weed thing, that has the most legs. But the other have been refuted quite a few times by credible people.

And I see you're still up to the quick little quips. Retarded? I compared them in terms of refinement, but I'm sure you noticed that, before it became retarded I'm sure. Some things never change sadly.

So he ran great routes against air? That only means so much, we both know that.

His strength really is of little consequence in terms of bench for a wide receiver. An O-lineman maybe more, but even still that isn't the best test of football strength.

The not so special part I addressed in the posts before this became retarded. You should be able to find it.

And if the guy could get that yardage, I have to ask why not give him the chance - he was the play caller wasn't he? He had the opportunity to give him more chances, but didn't. Why, if he could be so great and accumulate all that yardage? Seems funny he had the guy at his disposal all those years and couldn't help him reach those goals.

Sorry about the retarded quip, I'm just tired of the Ginn comparisons. Poor choice of words on my part, and we all have a right to our opinions.

 

[Conuficus]

Thanks Jim, you're a better poster than that man. It takes away from the valid points you do raise in your posts in general. :up: Don't sell yourself short man, seriously. (not trying to be condescending in any way, you're just not an idiot, so don't sell yourself short). :up:

I'm not saying they are the same player. Harvin is definitely more explosive and quicker in a short area. Ginn is a strider and needs more time to build speed. He is not fleet of foot despite his speed. Harvin can get in and out his cuts much faster than Ginn, that is not up for debate, not with me anyways.

The only comparison I'd make other than position - is the refinement of route running and operating in a non pro style offense.

Harvin is a luxury pick for me, that's why he drops further than maybe others have him, thats fine with me. If he had more of real position coming out, he'd probably be higher. I have himranked as 1-2 round guy anyways, so I thought he'd probably be in that area, maybe higher.

But I can see why you like Harvin, he is no way a bad player.

By the way, how's things? Goin good?