Universaldraft.com's Updated Mock Draft 4/4/09 - 2 Rounds

[ckparrothead]

Having seen all of the guys involved play some football, here's what I'll say.

1. It isn't a matter of just "needing some work" on setting the edge for Lawrence Sidbury. He doesn't necessarily do it, and so I'm not sure why anyone would assume he will eventually. It's like looking at a kid that scored a high SAT score and saying oh he's pretty smart I bet he could be an excellent composer. Uhh, maybe. But without the history of having done been interested in it, showing gifts in it, etc...that's a bit of a leap using highly imperfect measures as your evidence. So right now, having seen Lawrence Sidbury come into his own as a pass rusher only really in that FCS Championship game, and having the nice first couple of steps, the deadly spin move, I'm going to go ahead and say weak side for now. He could grow into something else, sure.

2. To my knowledge, Sidbury has absolutely no experience working in space in coverage. So again, talking about him working in space is a a projection.

3. On the other hand, Paul Kruger has THE most experience of any one of the DE/OLB conversion guys of this draft, when it comes to starting the snap on his feet and playing in space, covering down the field. The only 3-4 OLB prospect I can think of with more experience that way is Clint Sintim, and he's not a conversion prospect...because he already plays the position.

4. Kruger's a damn fine football player, he and Sean Smith led an extremely impressive defense that went completely undefeated in 2008 and beat up on Alabama in a Bowl Game everyone thought they'd lose and would be the ultimate test of whether they belong in the championship picture or they do not. They beat Alabama and proved that they did belong in the Championship picture...and Kruger and Smith made the left side of that defense a difficult proposition for opposing offenses to gain ground on by land or air.

Everyone has their own preferences and I totally get that. But anyone who calls Kruger "terrible" in anything having to do with being an OLB prospect, just doesn't know him that well as a prospect. Kruger versus Sidbury is just the newest iteration of an age-old debate. Do you take the guy that has the better tangibles, or do you take the guy that was a better football player?

Paul Kruger amazed me in how he would stick himself into the pile every time the play went to his side and somehow, at the end of each play, when the bodies clear, Kruger's at the bottom having stuck his hands on the ball carrier somehow. He didn't get credited with every tackle, but he was in the dogpile and affecting the play on a LOT of them. He's a tough S.O.B. and if you're familiar with his background, you can see that.

On the other hand, Sidbury is a very smart and very athletic guy with ideal frame that was coached by Brandon London's dad and should absolutely be on our radar.

Incidentally, there seems to be this fundamental under-appreciation for Matt Roth as a SOLB in this scheme. He's not in it for the long term with us but it isn't because he's a terrible football player. His run stoppin is ideal and it is absolutely what you NEED at that position first and foremost. Otherwise, he wouldn't be there, it would be some guy that is supposed to be a better pass rusher. Priority #1 and #1a at that position is having a guy that sets the edge and gets his mitts on the ball carrier. After that, ideally you want a guy that can play a little bigger role in the pass rush than Matt Roth can. But it's not such a priority that you ignore #1 and #1a.

If you don't stop the run, your pass rushers are irrelevant and I don't care WHO they are. In 2007 Miami had two guys who bracketed that season with DPOY caliber performances (Jason Taylor in 2006, Joey Porter in 2008). The team had them together in one year and they sucked in pass rush. Why? They didn't stop the run for sh-t. They allowed 154 yards a game on the ground.

So when I hear people actually CHIDE prospects by calling them "a slightly better Matt Roth"...I laugh. I laugh because a Matt Roth with slightly better pass rush and slightly better coverage ability is pretty much the ideal prospect for Miami's SOLB position.

Now, if you're looking for Porter's eventual replacement...I think Sidbury comes more into the frame.

 

[jim1]

Having seen all of the guys involved play some football, here's what I'll say.

1. It isn't a matter of just "needing some work" on setting the edge for Lawrence Sidbury. He doesn't necessarily do it, and so I'm not sure why anyone would assume he will eventually. It's like looking at a kid that scored a high SAT score and saying oh he's pretty smart I bet he could be an excellent composer. Uhh, maybe. But without the history of having done been interested in it, showing gifts in it, etc...that's a bit of a leap using highly imperfect measures as your evidence. So right now, having seen Lawrence Sidbury come into his own as a pass rusher only really in that FCS Championship game, and having the nice first couple of steps, the deadly spin move, I'm going to go ahead and say weak side for now. He could grow into something else, sure.

2. To my knowledge, Sidbury has absolutely no experience working in space in coverage. So again, talking about him working in space is a a projection.

3. On the other hand, Paul Kruger has THE most experience of any one of the DE/OLB conversion guys of this draft, when it comes to starting the snap on his feet and playing in space, covering down the field. The only 3-4 OLB prospect I can think of with more experience that way is Clint Sintim, and he's not a conversion prospect...because he already plays the position.

4. Kruger's a damn fine football player, he and Sean Smith led an extremely impressive defense that went completely undefeated in 2008 and beat up on Alabama in a Bowl Game everyone thought they'd lose and would be the ultimate test of whether they belong in the championship picture or they do not. They beat Alabama and proved that they did belong in the Championship picture...and Kruger and Smith made the left side of that defense a difficult proposition for opposing offenses to gain ground on by land or air.

Everyone has their own preferences and I totally get that. But anyone who calls Kruger "terrible" in anything having to do with being an OLB prospect, just doesn't know him that well as a prospect. Kruger versus Sidbury is just the newest iteration of an age-old debate. Do you take the guy that has the better tangibles, or do you take the guy that was a better football player?

Paul Kruger amazed me in how he would stick himself into the pile every time the play went to his side and somehow, at the end of each play, when the bodies clear, Kruger's at the bottom having stuck his hands on the ball carrier somehow. He didn't get credited with every tackle, but he was in the dogpile and affecting the play on a LOT of them. He's a tough S.O.B. and if you're familiar with his background, you can see that.

On the other hand, Sidbury is a very smart and very athletic guy with ideal frame that was coached by Brandon London's dad and should absolutely be on our radar.

Incidentally, there seems to be this fundamental under-appreciation for Matt Roth as a SOLB in this scheme. He's not in it for the long term with us but it isn't because he's a terrible football player. His run stoppin is ideal and it is absolutely what you NEED at that position first and foremost. Otherwise, he wouldn't be there, it would be some guy that is supposed to be a better pass rusher. Priority #1 and #1a at that position is having a guy that sets the edge and gets his mitts on the ball carrier. After that, ideally you want a guy that can play a little bigger role in the pass rush than Matt Roth can. But it's not such a priority that you ignore #1 and #1a.

If you don't stop the run, your pass rushers are irrelevant and I don't care WHO they are. In 2007 Miami had two guys who bracketed that season with DPOY caliber performances (Jason Taylor in 2006, Joey Porter in 2008). The team had them together in one year and they sucked in pass rush. Why? They didn't stop the run for sh-t. They allowed 154 yards a game on the ground.

So when I hear people actually CHIDE prospects by calling them "a slightly better Matt Roth"...I laugh. I laugh because a Matt Roth with slightly better pass rush and slightly better coverage ability is pretty much the ideal prospect for Miami's SOLB position.

Now, if you're looking for Porter's eventual replacement...I think Sidbury comes more into the frame.

Good post. Roth gets knocked all the time, but he did a phenomenal job of setting the edge. Roth in space- that's why Charlie Anderson is so important. The two can platoon, with CA coming in on passing downs, and be very effective. That's why I'd rather go elesewhwere at #25 or slide down, not LB.

I just saw some video of your guy Jarron Gilbert- wow. Super, super impresssive in terms of movement skills. 3-4 DE, 3rd down DT, he could dropp off the line and play OLB. I'll say it now- I would be more comfortable with Gilbert playing in space than Kruger. And Kruger is pretty good in space, it's just that Gilbert, for his size, is phenomenal.

http://draftguys.com/index.php/articles/dgtv_1/jarron_gilbert_video/

 

[ckparrothead]

I've been pimping Jarron Gilbert as a first round pick since the second day of Shrine practices when everyone thought he was a third or fourth rounder rising up into possibly being a day one pick.

But, I'm not projecting the guy out into space. No way, no how. And I think Paul Kruger works in space far better than Gilbert would.

I see Gilbert as a player that could become a Richard Seymour and do whatever you want him to do. But he's going to have to show a will for two-gapping before you can feel totally comfortable with him at 3-4 DE. And 3-4 OLB I just don't see any reason to do that.

 

[DearbornDolfan]

Bad Raiders pick, it's fairly common knowledge that Al Davis won't take a player without a 40 time. On the Dolphins front, are you freaking kidding me? Why the hell would you take a tweener over somebody like Darius Butler.

 

[jim1]

I've been pimping Jarron Gilbert as a first round pick since the second day of Shrine practices when everyone thought he was a third or fourth rounder rising up into possibly being a day one pick.

But, I'm not projecting the guy out into space. No way, no how. And I think Paul Kruger works in space far better than Gilbert would.

I see Gilbert as a player that could become a Richard Seymour and do whatever you want him to do. But he's going to have to show a will for two-gapping before you can feel totally comfortable with him at 3-4 DE. And 3-4 OLB I just don't see any reason to do that.

I disagree about Gilbert playing in space. All that talk about 290 lb Phillip Merling playing in space, and he was getting practice reps at OLB,was he not? I'd take Gilbert in space over Merling in a heartbeat. I could easily see Gilbert dropping off of the line in 3rd down packages. I'm not talking about or advocating converting him to an OLB, just him dropping off of the line in certain situations- nothing more than commentary about his impressive movement skills.

 

[Conuficus]

Bad Raiders pick, it's fairly common knowledge that Al Davis won't take a player without a 40 time. On the Dolphins front, are you freaking kidding me? Why the hell would you take a tweener over somebody like Darius Butler.

Thankfully the draft is still 3 weeks away, and Crabtree may run a 40 before then, who knows. But until he absolutely hasn't I don't think you can use that rationale. Al Davis is eccentric, he paid Tommy Kelly millions, who'd have thought he was gonna do that? Or get in a public pissin match with his former HC.

Because Butler can't tackle, and considering how much we put into fundamentals and such, I thought that may have something to do with it. Tackling is pretty important to the FO from I recall, guys who are guests at stopping the rum; not so much.

That's why the hell I did it. Or at least one of them. Another one is the regimes penchant for getting bigger #2 corners over time, players like Anthony Henry and Marcus Coleman for instance. The fact we moved Jason Allen back to corner last year; maybe we were looking for that type of size for the position for at least one starter.

 

[hoops]

Having seen all of the guys involved play some football, here's what I'll say.

1. It isn't a matter of just "needing some work" on setting the edge for Lawrence Sidbury. He doesn't necessarily do it, and so I'm not sure why anyone would assume he will eventually. It's like looking at a kid that scored a high SAT score and saying oh he's pretty smart I bet he could be an excellent composer. Uhh, maybe. But without the history of having done been interested in it, showing gifts in it, etc...that's a bit of a leap using highly imperfect measures as your evidence. So right now, having seen Lawrence Sidbury come into his own as a pass rusher only really in that FCS Championship game, and having the nice first couple of steps, the deadly spin move, I'm going to go ahead and say weak side for now. He could grow into something else, sure.

2. To my knowledge, Sidbury has absolutely no experience working in space in coverage. So again, talking about him working in space is a a projection.

3. On the other hand, Paul Kruger has THE most experience of any one of the DE/OLB conversion guys of this draft, when it comes to starting the snap on his feet and playing in space, covering down the field. The only 3-4 OLB prospect I can think of with more experience that way is Clint Sintim, and he's not a conversion prospect...because he already plays the position.

4. Kruger's a damn fine football player, he and Sean Smith led an extremely impressive defense that went completely undefeated in 2008 and beat up on Alabama in a Bowl Game everyone thought they'd lose and would be the ultimate test of whether they belong in the championship picture or they do not. They beat Alabama and proved that they did belong in the Championship picture...and Kruger and Smith made the left side of that defense a difficult proposition for opposing offenses to gain ground on by land or air.

Everyone has their own preferences and I totally get that. But anyone who calls Kruger "terrible" in anything having to do with being an OLB prospect, just doesn't know him that well as a prospect. Kruger versus Sidbury is just the newest iteration of an age-old debate. Do you take the guy that has the better tangibles, or do you take the guy that was a better football player?

Paul Kruger amazed me in how he would stick himself into the pile every time the play went to his side and somehow, at the end of each play, when the bodies clear, Kruger's at the bottom having stuck his hands on the ball carrier somehow. He didn't get credited with every tackle, but he was in the dogpile and affecting the play on a LOT of them. He's a tough S.O.B. and if you're familiar with his background, you can see that.

On the other hand, Sidbury is a very smart and very athletic guy with ideal frame that was coached by Brandon London's dad and should absolutely be on our radar.

Incidentally, there seems to be this fundamental under-appreciation for Matt Roth as a SOLB in this scheme. He's not in it for the long term with us but it isn't because he's a terrible football player. His run stoppin is ideal and it is absolutely what you NEED at that position first and foremost. Otherwise, he wouldn't be there, it would be some guy that is supposed to be a better pass rusher. Priority #1 and #1a at that position is having a guy that sets the edge and gets his mitts on the ball carrier. After that, ideally you want a guy that can play a little bigger role in the pass rush than Matt Roth can. But it's not such a priority that you ignore #1 and #1a.

If you don't stop the run, your pass rushers are irrelevant and I don't care WHO they are. In 2007 Miami had two guys who bracketed that season with DPOY caliber performances (Jason Taylor in 2006, Joey Porter in 2008). The team had them together in one year and they sucked in pass rush. Why? They didn't stop the run for sh-t. They allowed 154 yards a game on the ground.

So when I hear people actually CHIDE prospects by calling them "a slightly better Matt Roth"...I laugh. I laugh because a Matt Roth with slightly better pass rush and slightly better coverage ability is pretty much the ideal prospect for Miami's SOLB position.

Now, if you're looking for Porter's eventual replacement...I think Sidbury comes more into the frame.

most if not all just about of these 4-3 college ends being projected as olbs in the pros are just that...projections.

i've got no issue with in the short term sidbury maybe comes in as a weakside backer and situational pass rusher but i think personally in time he could develop into a decent seal the edge player. he has the ideal frame for the position pretty much from what i've seen. has solid 28 reps strength. there aren't many conversion college def ends into 3-4 olbs that don't have questions about how effectively they'll seal the edge in the run game. the guys that don't seem to have those questions are the matt roths of the world. major strength and power but really lacking in athleticism and have to be covered up in coverage as much as possible.


the bottom line for me is this. if we're only gonna take 1 olb prospect in this draft and that guy isn't the projected first round locks or larry english or connor barwin that 1 player for me is lawrence sidbury. followed by cody brown...not clint sintim...and definitely not paul kruger.

 

[ckparrothead]

I disagree about Gilbert playing in space. All that talk about 290 lb Phillip Merling playing in space, and he was getting practice reps at OLB,was he not? I'd take Gilbert in space over Merling in a heartbeat. I could easily see Gilbert dropping off of the line in 3rd down packages.

There was a reason for that though. Before the 2008 Draft we took a look at Phil Merling and what we saw was a kid we could imagine making that conversion out to a linebacker position. It's a mentality, a quickness and a balance more than it is pure athleticism. We saw a guy in Merling that attacks the ball with relentlessness. He's a guy that stays on his feet, gets out of trouble on his feet. He attacks the ball with motor and directional changes more than he does with a get-off from the line or spin moves, etc.

I'm more intimately familiar with Gilbert than probably any other player in this draft...and that's just not his game. That's how I would characterize his game at all. He is a defensive lineman, through and through.

 

[DearbornDolfan]

I don't remember the name of the cat who said it, but he works for NFL Network now and did quite a bit of time working for Al Davis on the management side and knows the guy quite well. If he says no 40, no draft from Davis, then it's a wrap. If Crabtree can walk at all right now after his surgery, it's only with crutches; he sure as hell won't be running a 40 in the near future.

Can't tackle? Or hasn't been properly schooled? I could teach a guy to properly tackle every time with a couple weeks of fundamental drills. I'm sure the coaching staff would do an even better job. And the comparison to Jason Allen is exactly why I want the Fins to have nothing to do with Sean Smith. The cat's a safety, straight up, and the Fins need a corner with serious cover skills.

 

[ckparrothead]

most if not all just about of these 4-3 college ends being projected as olbs in the pros are just that...projections.

Except that as I just explained, Paul Kruger is LESS of a projection than any other conversion prospect in the draft due to his experience. At this point, Clint Sintim isn't even a "conversion" prospect at all.

i've got no issue with in the short term sidbury maybe comes in as a weakside backer and situational pass rusher but i think personally in time he could develop into a decent seal the edge player. he has the ideal frame for the position pretty much from what i've seen. has solid 28 reps strength. there aren't many conversion college def ends into 3-4 olbs that don't have questions about how effectively they'll seal the edge in the run game. the guys that don't seem to have those questions are the matt roths of the world. major strength and power but really lacking in athleticism and have to be covered up in coverage as much as possible.

And yet the Matt Roths and Calvin Paces of the world continue to start, while the Vernon Gholstons and Quentin Moses, Charlie Andersons of the world...sit the bench.

Why? Because setting the edge, and getting off blocks to make a play on the runner, are the top priorities for the position on the strong side. Pass rush is a distant second.

the bottom line for me is this. if we're only gonna take 1 olb prospect in this draft and that guy isn't the projected first round locks or larry english or connor barwin that 1 player for me is lawrence sidbury. followed by cody brown...not clint sintim.

Preferences are all fine and good but it does depend on whether we're talking about the strong or weak side.

Strong Side Candidates: Brian Orakpo, Robert Ayers, Connor Barwin, Paul Kruger, Clint Sintim, David Veikune, Henry Melton

Weak Side Candidates: Everette Brown, Aaron Maybin, Michael Johnson, Larry English, Lawrence Sidbury, Cody Brown

 

[Conuficus]

Can't tackle? Or hasn't been properly schooled? I could teach a guy to properly tackle every time with a couple weeks of fundamental drills. I'm sure the coaching staff would do an even better job.

And the comparison to Jason Allen is exactly why I want the Fins to have nothing to do with Sean Smith. The cat's a safety, straight up, and the Fins need a corner with serious cover skills. __________________

I think you're missing the point on the second comment. They like prospects like that, and tend to have some on their team.

The first one is a gross simplification. So he's had bad coaching this whole time? No one tried to teach him to tackle before now, they just overlooked it, or couldn't get the job done? That's a bit much to say isn't it. Did their coaching help him become the pro prospect he is now? I have a feeling it did. Just assuming that this coaching staff can somehow cure what others failed to maybe a bit misguided. They may try, but it is no garauntee that it will succeed.

By the way Michael Lombardi also said a few weeks before that that Al Davis would take a lineman because that's how Davis thinks.

 

[dsipher13]

If we chose Kruger with that pick with these other players on the board that are way more talented I would throw up. Kruger = Matt Roth . I have nothing against Matt but why we take a player that has the same build with lack luster speed, and a liability in coverage.

 

[jim1]

There was a reason for that though. Before the 2008 Draft we took a look at Phil Merling and what we saw was a kid we could imagine making that conversion out to a linebacker position. It's a mentality, a quickness and a balance more than it is pure athleticism. We saw a guy in Merling that attacks the ball with relentlessness. He's a guy that stays on his feet, gets out of trouble on his feet. He attacks the ball with motor and directional changes more than he does with a get-off from the line or spin moves, etc.

I'm more intimately familiar with Gilbert than probably any other player in this draft...and that's just not his game. That's how I would characterize his game at all. He is a defensive lineman, through and through.

I'm merely trying to make a point about Gilbert's movement skills. Again, I'm not talking about a DE/OLB convert story here. But if I had to drop Gilbert or Merling off of the line into spaces in certain packages, I drop Gilbert.

Scott Wright of NFLDC identified Kendall Langford as a 3-4 OLB convert candidate last year, I found that to be a bit of a reach. Gilbert seems very much the DL, but with great movement skills.

 

[DKphin]

- Urban Meyer said that he was one of the most ungodly talents he's ever coached, and that if given the opportunity he could have had combined 200 yards/game.

He did have a combined 200yard game against Ole Miss.

 

[hoops]

if you're looking for a guy with limited pass rush skills and athleticism and limited ability to play in space but can set the edge in the run game why not go get david veikune a little later??? 35 reps of 225. i'd put him and kruger in the same area as far as draft value as 3-4 olbs but i don't think either are much of a long term upgrade on 3rd down from matt roth.

it would be nice to have a relatively consistent pass rush threat on the strongside.