Virginia will win the ACC this year.

[papafin]

Wow, wrong (again) on almost every front. First, I'll give you the updated numbers, just for the heck of it.

Stats through 6 games
Berlin TD Int.
2003 7 10
2004 13 4


Now, let's get to your post.

Instead of a 1.2, it's a 1.6 TD rate through 5 games. So basically, you're telling me that BB is going to score 1 TD more?

I'll give you this--you figured out the TD/game correctly. The rest of that portion of your post is WRONG.
In 2003, UM played 13 games. Through 5 games, (as you pointed out) Brock was on pace to throw 1.2 TD passes/game. If he'd kept that pace (which he didn't), he would have thrown 15.6 TDs. For the sake of round numbers, I'll say that would have been 16.
In 2004, UM will play 12 games. If you want to evaluate Brock this year vs. last year, all things have to be equal. So you have to use the 13 games marker. Brock is on pace for 1.6 TD passes/game(through 5 games). If he keeps that pace (he greatly improved that pace last night, but I'll use the numbers through 5 games just for the sake of argument), he'll throw 20.8 TDs. Again, for the sake of round numbers, I'll say 21,
Let's see, 21-16=5. Nice try with the "only one more TD" argument.

Sorry, besides the INTs, he isn't improving

Are you aware that the SINGLE most important stat in football is turnovers? Winning the turnover battle correlates to winning games over ANY other stat (except, of course, points for/against :tongue: ). I would expect any fan of the sport to know this.

considering the fact that he hasn't lost Gore,

Uh, he didn't lose Gore until the fifth game last year.

and has a much more matured WR core.

Roscoe Parrish (322 yards) and Ryan Moore (637 yards) are the only returning WR who played in more than 3 games last year. Moore has 3 catches (in 3 games) this year. Lance Leggett, Darnell Jenkins, and Akeem Jolla have made big contributions this year. Before this year, those three guys have played in 4 college football games combined. So here's my question--how is our WR corps much more matured? Don't you have to play in games to mature? I haven't even mentioned the losses of Kevin Beard and some tight end named Winslow. They aren't WR, but Greg Olsen and Kevin Everett (our tight ends if you're wondering) are very inexperienced as well. Everett saw plenty of action last year, but that Winslow guy caught the Lion's share of TE passes.


I guess that addresses most of your post.

 

[papafin]

Is sounds ignorant to say that either team played like a top five ball club that night.

Not as ignorant as this sounds:

Virginia will win the ACC this year.

How's that working for you these days?



I (along with 250 million other americans) don't care what YOU think UM/FSU looked like that night. It's of minor importance. AP writers, college coaches, and the BCS all agree that both are top 5 teams right now. That really doesn't matter either. The rankings on Jan. 5 are the ones that matter. Every team has games in which they don't "look the part". USC struggled with unranked Stanford and Va. Tech. OU had problems with 2-4 Kansas State. Auburn need some breaks to beat a very average LSU team. Wisconsin needed a Kyle Orton fumble inside 3:00 to beat Purdue. Maybe, by your system, Utah should be the #1 ranked team. I think they've looked good in all of their games.

 

[Ross]

“Not as ignorant as this sounds:â€Â

Almost as cowardly as leaving out the following sentence. "After watching this Miami/Florida St game there is no doubt that UVA is miles ahead of these teams right now.â€Â
I guess you missed that, or the words “right nowâ€Â. Right then both teams sucked.

“I (along with 250 million other americans) don't care what YOU think UM/FSU looked like that night. It's of minor importance….yada, yada, yada, Blah blah, blah†(Don’t you ever get tired of hearing yourself talk?)

Yeah, you would be right in saying its’ of minor importance it we WERENâ€ÂT TALKING ABOUT THAT GAME. LOL, do you even know how to stay on subject? I have my doubts, but I’ll try again for the learning disabled that seem to spawn on this board. YOUR TEAM SUCKED that night. If your grandmaw had played in that game, she couldn’t have played the QB position any worse. If Sexton had played in that game Miami would have the ‘L’ and not FSU. There’s no getting around that unless you are such a homer that you can’t even say your team had a bad game.

I await the typicial homer’s reply of how your team always walks on water...

--Ross

 

[papafin]

Almost as cowardly as leaving out the following sentence. "After watching this Miami/Florida St game there is no doubt that UVA is miles ahead of these teams right now.â€ÂI guess you missed that, or the words “right nowâ€Â. Right then both teams sucked.

Nope, didn't miss it. I thought I would give you a pass on the idiocy of that statement. You want to call me out on that, fine. You made that post the night of the UM/FSU game. Tell me something, at that point in the season, who had UVA played that you were basing that claim on. That's right, TEMPLE. Let's see if I have this correct.

1. <Ross sees two traditionally strong programs in one of the fiercest rivalry games around play a defensive struggle>

2. <Ross sees his hoos woodshed one of the worst teams in college football>

3. <Ross deduces the hoos are better than UM and FSU RIGHT THEN>

Too rich.

If Sexton had played in that game Miami would have the ‘L’ and not FSU.

What on earth are you basing this on? Sexton lighting up the overrated hoos? Do me a favor, tell me the last time a freshman qb led his team to victory against a top 5 team, on the road, at night, in his first college start.

I'll be waiting.

Btw, here are Sextons stats in his two road games this year.

32/65 363 yds. 2 TD 3 int.

This is against Wake Forest and Syracuse. Not exactly world beaters. Both are 3-4.Here's the link.
Sexton's Stats

 

[papafin]

Forgot to address this part of your post.

There’s no getting around that unless you are such a homer that you can’t even say your team had a bad game.

I can freely admit when my team has a bad game. Houston was not good. Our defense sucked against Louisville and NC State. It's football, I have better things to do than make excuses when they are unfounded. I will, however, defend my team against claims that are absurd. There is a big difference in looking pedestrian vs. FSU and looking pedestrian vs. Houston. FSU has a great defense, and have made a few teams look average. Houston smokes pole (not that there's anything wrong with that:D), and UM's game vs. them was terrible. You gotta keep it in perspective, man.

 

[Bling]

Wow, wrong (again) on almost every front. First, I'll give you the updated numbers, just for the heck of it.

Stats through 6 games
Berlin TD Int.
2003 7 10
2004 13 4


Now, let's get to your post.




I'll give you this--you figured out the TD/game correctly. The rest of that portion of your post is WRONG.
In 2003, UM played 13 games. Through 5 games, (as you pointed out) Brock was on pace to throw 1.2 TD passes/game. If he'd kept that pace (which he didn't), he would have thrown 15.6 TDs. For the sake of round numbers, I'll say that would have been 16.
In 2004, UM will play 12 games. If you want to evaluate Brock this year vs. last year, all things have to be equal. So you have to use the 13 games marker. Brock is on pace for 1.6 TD passes/game(through 5 games). If he keeps that pace (he greatly improved that pace last night, but I'll use the numbers through 5 games just for the sake of argument), he'll throw 20.8 TDs. Again, for the sake of round numbers, I'll say 21,
Let's see, 21-16=5. Nice try with the "only one more TD" argument.

I said 1 more TD vs. FSU, not 1 more TD on the year.

Are you aware that the SINGLE most important stat in football is turnovers? Winning the turnover battle correlates to winning games over ANY other stat (except, of course, points for/against :tongue: ). I would expect any fan of the sport to know this.

Keep putting words in my mouth. I said besides INTs, he isn't improving. Where did I say he wasn't improving?

Uh, he didn't lose Gore until the fifth game last year.

Do you just have reading problems?

Roscoe Parrish (322 yards) and Ryan Moore (637 yards) are the only returning WR who played in more than 3 games last year. Moore has 3 catches (in 3 games) this year. Lance Leggett, Darnell Jenkins, and Akeem Jolla have made big contributions this year. Before this year, those three guys have played in 4 college football games combined. So here's my question--how is our WR corps much more matured? Don't you have to play in games to mature? I haven't even mentioned the losses of Kevin Beard and some tight end named Winslow. They aren't WR, but Greg Olsen and Kevin Everett (our tight ends if you're wondering) are very inexperienced as well. Everett saw plenty of action last year, but that Winslow guy caught the Lion's share of TE passes.

Oh ****, you lost Kevin Beard!!!!!! I said your WR corp is mature, which basically means they're a better corp than last year.


and yeah, if you guys actually had a WR last year, you wouldn't have to rely on Winslow.




Sorry, until Berlin proves to me that he's drastically improved, and can make FSU's secondary look bad, you're just another homer.

 

[nick1]

why do you hate UM? Cause they kick FSU's @$$ every year or because your too young to realize their greatness?

 

[papafin]

I said 1 more TD vs. FSU, not 1 more TD on the year.

Instead of a 1.2, it's a 1.6 TD rate through 5 games. So basically, you're telling me that BB is going to score 1 TD more? Sorry, besides the INTs, he isn't improving considering the fact that he hasn't lost Gore, and has a much more matured WR core.

Hmm, please show me where it says something about "1 more TD vs. FSU" in that post. I posted a stat of Berlin's TD/int ratio of 2003 vs. 2004. You retort with his TD/game rate, commenting that he'll score "1 TD more". That is obviously a take on his yearly production, not just that vs. FSU. You should play defensive back with all of the backpedalling you do.

Keep putting words in my mouth. I said besides INTs, he isn't improving. Where did I say he wasn't improving?

Two things here.

1. Nick made the comment that Berlin had gotten better since the FSU game, to which you replied:

Funny...I heard the same about Berlin last year--look what he did in the OB. Berlin just isn't a good QB.

While you didn't explicitly say Brock isn't improving, you certainly insuated as much.

2. By saying "besides INTs", you're minimizing the value of that stat. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. The fact is that cutting down on turnovers for Berlin is HUGE. It makes him infinitely more valuable to the Canes. With the recent defensive struggles, Brock (along w/ Hester) has been the team MVP for the last couple of weeks.

Do you just have reading problems?

No, I have other problems as well. :D
You, again, minimized BB's improvement in pointing out that this year he still has Frank Gore to help shoulder the load. I pointed out that Gore was hurt in Game 5 last year. Our discussions have been centered on BB's play through the first 5 games of last year vs. this year. By making the statement about Gore, you imply that Berlin's improvement is (in part) attributed to Gore's presence. While having Gore certainly doesn't hurt Berlin, it's not really a variable b/c Gore was there last year as well. In fact, Gore had better numbers through the first 5 last year.

I said your WR corp is mature, which basically means they're a better corp than last year.

The word "mature" implies age. Our WR are relatively young. I do agree that they're better than last year, but alot of that can be attributed to Brock (and Werner) perfoming better this year. Our OC last year was a baffoon.
Roscoe--Jr
Moore---So
Jenkins--So
Moss----So
Leggett--Fr
Jolla-----So

if you guys actually had a WR last year, you wouldn't have to rely on Winslow.

Any idea what tea's going for in China these days?

Sorry, until Berlin proves to me that he's drastically improved, and can make FSU's secondary look bad, you're just another homer.

Why? You've said yourself that FSU has a great defense. While he didn't make FSU's secondary look bad, they didn't exactly shut him down, either. He was 20/36 for 255yds. with 1TD/1int. I've said myself that Brock isn't great. I think he's "drastically improved". What about that makes me a "homer"? The numbers certainly agree with me.

As I said in an earlier post, his updated numbers are:
13 TDs
4 Ints.

If you don't think that's drastically better, you're expecting too much. What sort of numbers do you want him to put up in order to be drastically better?

 

[StartingTailbak]

Who wasn't watching the game? Do the link, youngster.
FSU totally outplayed UM
Looks to me as if UM outgained FSU 365-165. Keep spouting that garbage that FSU outplayed UM. It may come to fruition, eventually.


please give me the numbers to the state lotto, oh great Nostradomus. You don't watch very much football.


Absolutely. SU is twice the team that Louisville is. Ask anyone who knows a thing about football. Freakin' Rutgers scored 31 on them.

Please make more excuses. I've freely admitted that FSU is a good (top 5 caliber) team. UM is better. They proved it on the field. But I guess I should never expect an FSU fan to admit as much.

Try this link Much more accurate

You even quoted me as saying that 10 players on offense and 11 players on defense totally outplayed UM. That is what I typed and that is what I meant. I guess you had to find something to be offended at. I am not sure where you are coming from. Rix's play in the 4th quarter was atrocious. He started it off with an interception and managed the game poorly.

Miami gained over 200 of those 364 yards and all 16 points in the 4th and in overtime due to Rix's mistakes. The point of my post was to illustrate that Rix was the only reason FSU lost the game, nothing more. My statements are accurate no matter how you try to spin the final stats. You say I don't know much about football yet you don't back up your arguments. If you have to start getting personal you've already lost the debate.

They will replay the game on the Sunshine Network, if you have it. Watch it again.

 

[papafin]

Nope, there is no reason to get personal. You are right about that. But, your assertations that Rix is the sole reason that FSU lost that game are laughable, at best. What if I told you that Roscoe Parrish is the only reason that game was even close? He fumbled the ball that Cro returned for the TD. If it weren't for that, we'd have waxed FSU.

You see, coulda, shoulda, wouldas are lame. Miami owned FSU in that game. The stats show it, the scoreboard proves it. Miami moved the ball up and down the field all night. FSU showed great resilience(sp?) by keeping them out of the endzone. Doesn't change the fact that Miami handled them regularly.

Miami gained over 200 of those 364 yards and all 16 points in the 4th and in overtime due to Rix's mistakes.

So, maybe they should change the game to 3 quarters. Or maybe anything that happens due to the opposing players' mistakes should be discounted. So that game would've ended 0-0. You see, I'm not disputing the fact that Rix was not-so-good in this game. But, you guys that say he's the only reason you lost the game are reaching, at best. If it weren't for Miami turnovers, FSU would not have sniffed the scoreboard, but FSU's scores still count. Funny thing about football.

 

[Bling]

Hmm, please show me where it says something about "1 more TD vs. FSU" in that post. I posted a stat of Berlin's TD/int ratio of 2003 vs. 2004. You retort with his TD/game rate, commenting that he'll score "1 TD more". That is obviously a take on his yearly production, not just that vs. FSU. You should play defensive back with all of the backpedalling you do.

Maybe I didn't make it clear enough. If his TD ratio stayed consistent with the one in 2004, he would have thrown 1 TD more in the FSU vs. UM game. How does someone only get 1 TD more on the season from those numbers?

Two things here.

1. Nick made the comment that Berlin had gotten better since the FSU game, to which you replied:
While you didn't explicitly say Brock isn't improving, you certainly insuated as much.

2. By saying "besides INTs", you're minimizing the value of that stat. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. The fact is that cutting down on turnovers for Berlin is HUGE. It makes him infinitely more valuable to the Canes. With the recent defensive struggles, Brock (along w/ Hester) has been the team MVP for the last couple of weeks.

I think Berlin honestly is a much smarter QB than last year.

No, I have other problems as well. :D
You, again, minimized BB's improvement in pointing out that this year he still has Frank Gore to help shoulder the load. I pointed out that Gore was hurt in Game 5 last year. Our discussions have been centered on BB's play through the first 5 games of last year vs. this year. By making the statement about Gore, you imply that Berlin's improvement is (in part) attributed to Gore's presence. While having Gore certainly doesn't hurt Berlin, it's not really a variable b/c Gore was there last year as well. In fact, Gore had better numbers through the first 5 last year.

I misread, sorry.

The word "mature" implies age. Our WR are relatively young. I do agree that they're better than last year, but alot of that can be attributed to Brock (and Werner) perfoming better this year. Our OC last year was a baffoon.
Roscoe--Jr
Moore---So
Jenkins--So
Moss----So
Leggett--Fr
Jolla-----So

Now to tell me that Roscoe, Moore older isn't a good thing, would be an understatement. I think Roscoe is one of the most underrated WR in the league. I think you guys didn't lose anything with the loss of Kevin Beard. I do think you miss Winslow big time, but like all teams, you lose quality talent fast in the NCAA.

Why? You've said yourself that FSU has a great defense. While he didn't make FSU's secondary look bad, they didn't exactly shut him down, either. He was 20/36 for 255yds. with 1TD/1int. I've said myself that Brock isn't great. I think he's "drastically improved". What about that makes me a "homer"? The numbers certainly agree with me.

As I said in an earlier post, his updated numbers are:
13 TDs
4 Ints.

If you don't think that's drastically better, you're expecting too much. What sort of numbers do you want him to put up in order to be drastically better?

He really made me think my position with the Wolfpack, but I think once he proves he can do that consistently, I'll just say his INT performances are better. He's doing better than last year, but how much worse can you be than last year?

 

[StartingTailbak]

You see, coulda, shoulda, wouldas are lame. Miami owned FSU in that game. The stats show it, the scoreboard proves it. Miami moved the ball up and down the field all night. FSU showed great resilience(sp?) by keeping them out of the endzone. Doesn't change the fact that Miami handled them regularly.

I don't know about you but as I was watching that game I was confident that FSU would hold on for the win. A buddy of mine went to the airport to pick up his friend and when he came back he asked 'How much did FSU win by' and he is a Miami fan. I am not sure how you can say that the Canes moved the ball on FSU all night when the stats, which you promote so much, clearly state that FSU choked away a game they had in hand.

Again my original post had nothing to do with who is the better team. I simply posted in response to the assertion that Sexton would have had to have thrown all over the Canes to win. I have stated that in three posts now. How this turned into a manhood measuring contest is beyond me. I am done with this thread.

 

[Ross]

How's that working for you these days?

Looks good.

You?

--Ross

 

[papafin]

Looks good.

You are looking good. I cannot defend, nor explain that stinker the Canes threw out there versus UNC. Pathetic. Although I never really predicted the Canes to win the ACC, I feel obligated to dine on some crow (re: the rest of this thread). Tastes BAD! :)

 

[Ross]

You are looking good. I cannot defend, nor explain that stinker the Canes threw out there versus UNC. Pathetic. Although I never really predicted the Canes to win the ACC, I feel obligated to dine on some crow (re: the rest of this thread). Tastes BAD! :)

Nice post.

See ya'll this saturday my man...

--Ross