Why is everyone so surprised?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by lemmiwinks, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. lemmiwinks

    lemmiwinks New Member

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    First post here. I felt compelled to chime in.

    I get it, our offense has been inept and our record is well..mediocre to say the least. It sucks to be here, but why is everyone so surprised? I don't think that we expected a winning record at mid point this season with Jay Cutler at the helm. Our team isn't going to do anything in the playoffs even if we somehow manage to squeeze our way in.

    Also, Gase is not to blame for the way things are going this season. If anything, blame Tannenbaum for not addressing the offensive line and ****ty luck with Tannehill going down. Gase went with the best option on the table by signing Cutler who he has had success with in the past. We had enough talent to compete this year and he wanted to give our team a fighting chance with the cards we were dealt with.

    I mean look at teams like the Packers and Texans. Those teams have talent on their rosters but aren't going to jack this year with backup QBs.
     
  2. finmann

    finmann Pro Bowler

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    First thing......welcome.
    I didn't expect much from the Dolphins this year and I am on record saying that, However, I don't expect that many people thought they would look this bad with a boat load of off the field issues. The disappointment is justified as many fans had us going to the playoffs for sure, the realization has now set in for most (not all) people that this team is god awful and in all likelihood is at least 2 years away from being good. No one wants to wait any longer for that........it's been nearly 20 years of bad coaching and bad drafting, enough is enough.
     
  3. multistage

    multistage Well-Known Member

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    Because we hope against hope.

    Every. ****ing. Year.

    You’d think we’d get calloused, but old timers like me remember when we were unreal.

    And we will not settle for the ****show that is our current team.

    So, we get kicked in the balls. Again.
     
  4. fininpsl

    fininpsl A True Fan

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    I'm also not sure why everyone is so shocked that we've been mediocre. It's obvious to all the world that there aren't enough decent QB's to fill even the starting jobs in the NFL. If you lose your starter a month before the season you might as well write the year off. We didn't, and that's going to hurt us in 2018. Less cash, and a lower position in the draft. I don't think the roster is quite the trainwreck everybody thinks it is. Between injuries, the effect of Irma, and the travel schedule to start the season, this team was turned upside down. I do think we have improved the talent on the defense, and I don't think the offense needs everybody replaced. The huge disappointments to me are the fact the two young guys on offense we all though would be foundation pieces in Ajayi and Tunsil, haven't proven to be what we hoped for. Hopefully Tunsil can put the work in and turn the corner as a player. The talent is there. if he doesn't, we may have an entirely new o-line by 2019.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
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  5. BenchFiedler

    BenchFiedler Undrafted Pro-Bowler

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    For some reasons.... I think it's worst watching this defense than the offense. Teams treat this defense like a padded practice and most incomplete passes are on the other team's QB throwing an inaccurate pass or WR dropping the ball.
     
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  6. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    Two things are surprising:

    1) How poor Jay Cutler has played, in comparison to his career average performance, and especially in comparison to his performance with Gase in 2015.

    2) How much more poorly the pass defense has played in 2017, in comparison to 2016.

    When you put those two things together, you have a team that went from one that made the playoffs with a bit of luck in 2016, to one that may not win another game this year if it continues to play the way it has. That's quite the plummeting.
     
  7. fininpsl

    fininpsl A True Fan

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    We aren't losing the rest of our games. I've heard several different people say that the last couple days, and it's not happening. We just aren't that horrifically bad.
     
  8. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    When you consider the variables that most strongly predict winning in the NFL, the Dolphins have played in 2017 like a team that has finished 3-13 on average in the league since 2004.

    They may not lose the rest of their games, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did, and I wouldn't place a bet on their finishing any better than 6-10.
     
  9. zach attach

    zach attach A True Fan Donator

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    I'm surprised because of the difference in pretty much 2 players. Last year Tannehill and Albert were here. The o line protected him, and with time, Ryan can surgically dissect a defense.

    Also, I'm surprised because Coach Gase sold us a raw deal. Trade Albert for Thomas. Bad. Trust me Cutler knows the system, he's great, pay the man.

    Coach Gase, "System, system, system"
    Well now the players suck.
     
  10. Snakell Beast

    Snakell Beast Active Member

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    I think I can speak for many of the fin fans on here when I say that I am not SURPRISED, I am PISSED AND DISAPPOINTED. I held out hope that Gase was more than just another also ran "system" coach who fails to connect with players, tries to force roles on guys that they can't perform with their skillsets, then argues with the media and fans about the purity of his "system" and how the players just aren't running the plays right.

    I think we are disappointed that even with the most talented roster we've had in many years, the same problems keep creeping up, and that we keep changing our front office and players and winding up with the same soft, pretender team that flirts with relevance and then ****s on the fans with a ghastly performance against a conference opponent that portends the fatal slide to come. It's jut gruesome and tedious, that's all.

    We're tired of seeing the team throw away assets at the wrong time, often for the wrong reasons, and we're tired of the team drafting for smaller needs when they should draft the best player available, and drafting the best player available when there is an equivalent talent in our most consistent need (offensive line) readily available.

    We're tired of the mismanagement, like having Tannehill avoid surgery only to have the same injury worsen in camp and end a whole new season, or signing a washed up player like Cutler when there were better options available in trade or free agency, or trading away picks after the draft and preseason to fill needs that were neglected in order to utilize our free cap space to sign said washed up quarterback, or keeping players on the roster for special teams when we could be using those spots to fill needs for the starting units, or dumping our kicker and punter every few years to save a buck while seeing gradual decline in both positions, or just not valuing draft assets highly enough, and constantly drafting players in the middle rounds that don't contribute, and passing on franchise quarterbacks like Rodgers and Ryan because of minor flaws while drafting quarterbacks like Beck and Henne with glaring flaws and then pretending those flaws don't exist when they play... but, most of all, we're just sick and tired of having to change the front office and coaching staff every 3 years, only to see the same flaws and problems crop up again with the next regime so we can rinse and repeat again 3 years later.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
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  11. ANUFan

    ANUFan A True Fan Donator

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    You mean the same defense that has practically put us in positions to win(minus the Baltimore game) everytime? Including the most recent game against the Raiders.

    That's the defense you want to pick on? What do you think happens to defenses when the offenses continually can't do anything with the ball and give the ball right back to the other teams offense.
     
  12. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    Our lack of a consistent pass rush(specially on 3rd down) has really hurts the secondary. The middle of the fields seems to always be wide open. The offense has struggle because the O-line can not run block so basically we're losing up front on both sides of the ball. Yes the D-line has played better vs the run this year but that's about it. It all starts up front and we're losing there and of course all the penalties and dumb mistakes are not helping matters

    Ozzy rules!!
     
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  13. Adam Strange

    Adam Strange Question Authority Finheaven VIP

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    I’m not shocked. The season was over when Tannehill went down and the talent on the team was overrated to begin with.

    But if you’re going to pay someone 10 million to come out of retirement and lead the team, he better be leading it to a better record than 7-9/8-8 or what’s the point.

    I’d rather win 5 or 6 games with Matt Moore than 8 games with Cutler. We’d save money on the cap and have better draft positioning too. But, instead, the team just had to “do something” once Tannehill went down and decided that a mediocre journeyman QB who retired last year would be better than the mediocre journeyman QB who was already on the bench.

    Then the spin began: how Cutler had never played better than under Gase, how he had never had better weapons and yada, yada, yada . . . the team is mediocre once more, but at least Gase’s protege got paid.
     
  14. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    The pass defense surrendered a YPA of 10 to the Raiders, amidst a passer rating of 121.3 by Jay Cutler.

    In other words, the pass defense played horrendously, even alongside a high-quality performance by the offense.

    There have been 30 games in 2017 in which at least one of the teams involved had a YPA of at least 9.5. Those teams with the YPA of at least of 9.5 were 29-1. The one team that lost with a YPA of at least 9.5 was beaten by a team with a YPA of 10.9.

    You stand almost no chance of winning in the NFL when you surrender a YPA of 10. The Dolphins' pass defense gave this team very little if any chance of winning Sunday night.
     
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  15. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    While I agree, no pass rush affects the secondary. How much of Cutler's success was a below average pass rush?
     
  16. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    The pass rush is part of the pass defense, no doubt.
     
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  17. ANUFan

    ANUFan A True Fan Donator

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    Yikes...nice chatting with you.
     
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  18. JJM_7

    JJM_7 A True Fan

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    Wouldn't say I'm surprised. After Ryan went down I knew it would be an uphill battle for us.

    What I am is disappointed in the fact that once again our OL has sucked. It's been years and we still can't get it right.
     
  19. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    Yeah well, there ain't much to say beyond that about that topic, is there.
     
  20. Snakell Beast

    Snakell Beast Active Member

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    We've all seen this movie before. When the coach is in over his head, he doubles down on his rhetoric and starts flailing. Then the fan base splinters between apologists and haters with moderate people who are relatively indifferent. Then, like a nightmarish whack-a-mole game gone horribly wrong, the team keeps solving one issue only to have different ones crop up...it's all a symptom of poor coaching. This regime is toast. It's all over but the shouting at this point. Time for another cut and shuffle.
     
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  21. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Not going to argue w the stats but I will say this - the field was slippery for the pass rushers on both teams. Cutler had more time to throw than any game this season and his YPA were the best they've been all year. I don't think that was a coincidence meaning both QBs couldn't miss unless they suffered a drop by the receivers for the most part. I really think that was the field affecting the rushers more than anything.
     
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  22. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Welcome and good post. For me, I denounced the Cutler signing but I still had hope because I reasoned that at least it happened in camp and not in the middle of the season. You are correct in that there aren't enough good QBs to fill out starting roster spots. You see what's happened to GB and Houston without their starters - their offenses suddenly can't do anything. This is why I'm not so sure our roster sucks as bad as many people believe. If you use that logic in GB and Houston you'd suddenly be calling every player there a bust, over paid, etc. Without very good QB play everyone else looks meh. Except John Denney. He always looks good.
     
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  23. outlawd2u

    outlawd2u Pro Bowler

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    While I dont think Gase is at fault for all of our woes this season he certainly deserves his share of the blame. The playcalling for the most part has been pretty horrific, and that's 100% on Gase. There also doesn't seem to be Any type of plan to attack opposing defenses weaknesses. It appears to me that Gase is going to run his scheme and plays no matter what the defense does and without a lot of variety so this has made it pretty damn easy to defend our offense.
     
  24. Etuoo33

    Etuoo33 Seasoned Veteran

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    Did Madden have them run the sprinklers all night again? LOL. No surprise the team has folded without #17, surprised we can't even get a decent f***ing field to play on though...
     
  25. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    That's the weird thing. We haven't really seen a varied offensive attack based on the opponent. Then again, when we take a penalty on every 1st play of every drive the game plan probably goes out the window.
     
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  26. Finland

    Finland Pro Bowler

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    Some of your points stand out most when I watch other games and see brilliant play designs executed well. You just kind of think about how much better we could be. Miami just never seems to have plays that look easy or bread and butter plays that are hard to defend consistently.
     
  27. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    The play design for the Dolphins WAS brilliant on Sunday night. That's how we racked up like over 400 yards of offense with Kenyan Drake, Julius Thomas, and Jay Cutler as our big offensive weapons, even with dreadful performances from Pouncey and Bushrod.
     
  28. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    And that may be true, but under those conditions Carr did what only 30 teams have done in the league in 2017 (a YPA [10] of at least 9.5), whereas Cutler's 7.4 YPA was merely average.

    And a 2.6-yard difference in YPA may seem meager, but in this area it's actually extreme.

    Moreover, the Raiders have one of the worst pass defenses in the league, especially downfield.

    So when the conditions were very favorable for the offensive passing game for both teams, the Dolphins performed at only an average level in terms of YPA, whereas the Raiders performed extremely well. That's an indictment of Miami's pass defense.
     
  29. BSQ

    BSQ Scout Team

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    O, you are correct that Miami's pass defense was horrible. I would point out that Wake couldn't get the footing to do his normal array of moves and was quiet all night. Wake usually makes big plays for us and that was absent against the Raiders. I would also give Carr credit for throwing some perfect passes and credit to their Tight End who crushed us all night. How could the same player beat you all game? Kiko was no match in coverage, didn't Burke notice that?

    Gase called a good game and the offense seemed to have some rhythm for a change. We all know about the flags, they gave us no chance for victory. We're just not good enough to beat the Raiders and the Refs!
     
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  30. TraderJoe

    TraderJoe FinHeaven VIP

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    “Also, Gase is not to blame for the way things are going this season. If anything, blame Tannenbaum for not addressing the offensive line...”

    So it wasn’t Gase but Tannenbaum who kept telling us after last season that he didn’t need great guards to run his “system”? And are you sure it was Tannenbaum who told us that Bushrod was his top graded lineman last year?
     
  31. Dajesus

    Dajesus A True Fan

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    The surprise could be credited to how inept we are, big money players doing nothing, and false hope from a playoff appearance last year.

    Yes, Jay isn’t Ryan, but it’s no excuse for scoring 6 points in 3 losses. It was 3 games our players, and coaches didn’t show up for, and were not prepared. Jay doesn’t excuse the worst oline in the NFL. We have 3 first round picks on the Oline, and a lot of money and resources invested in a horrific group. There was a lot of evidence to suggest the middle of our line would be horrible, and Gase ignored it, and assured us it would be fine, and it is far from fine. The scariest part of our how inept we are on offense is this is why Gase got the job, so in year two to see guys not being able to run the offense, know their duties, and to be beating themselves, you have to wonder where is the upside?
     
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  32. fininpsl

    fininpsl A True Fan

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    Heck, it easily could have been over 500 yards of offense without all the penalties, and miscues. People are who are complaining that we "didn't go long" have no clue what they are talking about. Gase took what the defense gave him, and if it wasn't for player mistakes his game plan was perfect.
     
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  33. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    The biggest issue with the pass defense in my opinion is the lack of a safety who has even average pass coverage skills. That allows an awful lot to happen downfield.
     
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  34. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    Anytime a team is shut out 25 times the expected rate in the league within seven games, it's by definition a surprise.
     
  35. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Right - but Cutler performed above HIS average for the season...
     
  36. Drazzub

    Drazzub Active Member

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    It's amazing how we as fans ignore the people that get paid to analyze a team and predict a line. I believe Vegas had our wins at 5.5 or 6
     
  37. Avigatorx

    Avigatorx Sec. 107 Row 2

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    Keep in mind, while the raiders have struggled mightily this year, last year they had one of the best passing attacks in the NFL.

    They had their starting QB, WR1, WR2, and stud TE all healthy for that game.

    The ONLY big play that got past our D was to their 3rd WR on a mismatch with Jones.

    No, our pass D isnt there yet, but its not as bad as those numbers say.

    When you play "bend but dont break" you are going to give up alot of cheap yards. The idea is to limit those big plays, and I think they did fairly well all things considered.
     
  38. DolfanISS

    DolfanISS Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP

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    This is a good point. I feel like our CB's do an OK job but the middle of the field is wide open. Seems like Oakland feasted on anyone not named Howard, Tank or McCain in that game. Not saying the CB's are perfect but Jones and the LB's, when in coverage, were torched. I hope McDonald is better in Coverage than Jones. I don't think it's what he's know for but he has to be better than Jones is in coverage. For a PB safety he's laughable in coverage. On that deep ball he seemed to have perfect position but stood there and watched the guy catch it.

    The optimistic side of me agrees with Gase though. I feel like the offense is on the brink but I'm not sure they can overcome the OL issues. I love the RB's being involved in the passing game. It's a weakness the Patriots have been exploiting for years and something we sort of had last year but didn't have this year. I've always been a huge Landry fan, I shocked he doesn't know where to line up and is not football smart. I always thought that sort of thing was his MO.
     
  39. DolfanISS

    DolfanISS Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP

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    Maybe I have low standards but I really haven't been upset with the defense all year. Even against Baltimore they really only gave up 26 in a game where the offense was 100% inept. 0-0 ties are pretty rare. A buddy of mine once mentioned to me that he hates watching football with the guy who loses his mind every time a defense gives up a play. He says we need to remember every guy on an NFL football field is a pro who is capable of making plays. Finheaven reminds he of his buddy at times especially in the game threads and more so for the morons who start separate threads during games (we should be locked down from starting threads during games when there is an entire discussion thread about the game active). We don't have the best defense in the NFL but it's good enough if it gets some support. They gave up a late TD but they gave the offense like 3 chances, including a turnover, to take the lead late. The offense needs to capitalize.
     
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  40. Avigatorx

    Avigatorx Sec. 107 Row 2

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    I also feel that what we really need is a ballhawking free safety. But it doesnt look like our coaching staff sees it that way. Maybe I'm wrong, but TJM isnt that guy that is gonna play deep centerfield and give help to our corners on the deep ball.

    What I DO think TJM will help with is taking away the middle of the field. All those cheap dump offs to RBs and TEs, I think we will get noticeably better defending.

    On that deep play to Jones, to me, it looked like he was still playing the WR and not playing the ball. He should have been playing the ball, it was in the air long enough! That said, while I think he is faster than TJM (/shrug I think he is....) he isnt free safety fast. That ball was just VERY well thrown by a VERY good QB.

    Seems to me, Jones has been working overtime trying to cover some of our deficiencies in the secondary. If TJM can come in and solidify that second safety spot, Jones will become much more effective going forward.
     

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