Why Miami Should Draft a First Day QB.....

[finner]

How many "proven" OL do we have? How many "proven" players at ANY position?

We need PLAYERS all over the field, and we have a highly regarded "prospect" in Beck so build a cast around him and protect him before you put another "UNPROVEN" QB into a bad situation.

 

[SammySmif]

A great defense will get you far. But if your QB sucks, you will be the Chicago Bears. That being said, Grossman is not an NFL starter. We know this. We do not know this about Beck yet.

 

[BlueFin]

Ok fine, Baltimore still remains. My point is, a team is not irrelevant without a good QB. Is it hard? Unlikely? Yes, but again, the team is not irrelevant.

Irrelevent meaning...........that without the solid starting QB, your not winning it all.

At the moment, no one can actually say John Beck or Josh McCown are even Trent Dilfer caliber, at least as game managers.

We need a 3rd QB, I don't want anyone else's trash, we've had quite enough of that.

Lets develop our own.

 

[korl68]

And until a QB carries a team on his back and wins by himself, I'm going to continue to hold the view that the QB is more dependent on the team than the team is on the QB.

The Giant's for all the great team effort would not have won the Super Bowl without Eli Manning's difference making winning drive.

Joe Montana won many games on his back based on his play another qb would have lost.

Same with Dan Marino he won many games on his back he willed them to win many many times.

Joe Nameth as well.

Yes it is a team sport but that is why they have captains and bell cows and pack leaders.

A great team will never be dominant year in and year out without a great QB.

Period.

 

[BlueFin]

How many "proven" OL do we have? How many "proven" players at ANY position?

We need PLAYERS all over the field, and we have a highly regarded "prospect" in Beck so build a cast around him and protect him before you put another "UNPROVEN" QB into a bad situation.

We have 3 proven OL starters.

And your argument is no reason to not draft another QB at some point in this draft, we need 3, I'd rather develop our own, Beck is unproven.

Beck is less than ideal in height or stature on the field, his release point is low, which results in a high number of batted down passes.

 

[SammySmif]

Korl I agree with you, but a lot of us are saying that this team is so far off, that getting a QB this year is a low priority.

 

[BlueFin]

The Giant's for all the great team effort would not have won the Super Bowl without Eli Manning's difference making winning drive.

Joe Montana won many games on his back based on his play another qb would have lost.

Same with Dan Marino he won many games on his back he willed them to win many many times.

Joe Nameth as well.

Yes it is a team sport but that is why they have captains and bell cows and pack leaders.

A great team will never be dominant year in and out without a great QB period.

Bingo.........that is what separates it all......thank you!

 

[korl68]

Korl I agree with you, but a lot of us are saying that this team is so far off, that getting a QB this year is a low priority.

This is where the mistakes happen.

Qb's take years to mature fully. You do not just plug one in and go.

You develop the right one and he will make a difference in many games.

We have tried plugging in Qb's for the last 12 years without any success.

QB is the most important foundation piece to a football team so you start there and build around him.

I do not believe taking Matt Ryan very high is the answer.
I would be against that. I am not sold on him. If he was available in the second round I would take a chance because he has all the physical gifts you look for mostly.

I believe we NEED to take a QB to develop if Beck does not pan out and even if he does QB's that are worth anything will get more in trade. Hell, they are talking about Sage Rosenfels for a second round pick and need I remind you we paid a second round pick for Feeley. Look what Atlanta got for Matt Schaub.

 

[Padfoot]

You can do what you are suggesting with a RB they can be plug and play but a QB is different they are the general on the field and the identity of the team. It takes years to fully develop a qb.

The dog wags the tale not the other way around.

I completely agree it takes a complete team to win year in and out. But the foundation has to start with a QB not the other way around.

Foundation pieces:

QB
LT
Pass Rushers
CB

I don't see how a QB being the identity of a team makes it wrong to keep your team strong and wait to draft a QB in a good spot and giving him weapons, rather than reaching for a QB in a bad spot and leaving him with little to work with.

Last year, I think we should've taken Brady Quinn. He was certainly worth the 9th pick in the eyes of most. It was a good spot to take that specific QB. But this year, none of the QB's are worth where we pick. Ryan isn't worth the first overall, and none of the other QB's is worth the 32nd pick, except Brohm but he likely won't be there. And if we reach for one of those QB's we lose out on overall talent, which is not only bad in itself, but it can also hinder the QB's play.

An argument can be made that one of the QB's is worth taking with the 57th pick, but there could easily be better talent available at another position of need, this draft is deep with talent.

I firmly believe that you should draft the player, not the position.

 

[Padfoot]

The Giant's for all the great team effort would not have won the Super Bowl without Eli Manning's difference making winning drive.

Joe Montana won many games on his back based on his play another qb would have lost.

Same with Dan Marino he won many games on his back he willed them to win many many times.

Joe Nameth as well.

Yes it is a team sport but that is why they have captains and bell cows and pack leaders.

A great team will never be dominant year in and year out without a great QB.

Period.

The Giant defense had more to do with winning that game than Manning did. They limited one of the most prolific offenses in NFL history to 14 points. Sure Manning did well, and had a great heroic moment, but through the course of the entire game he scored 17 points. If the defense didn't play at such an elite level, they would've lost. If Tyree didn't make that catch, they would've lost. It's an endless circle of dependability. Every player on an NFL team is dependant upon other players in order for their skills to thrive.

 

[Padfoot]

Irrelevent meaning...........that without the solid starting QB, your not winning it all.

At the moment, no one can actually say John Beck or Josh McCown are even Trent Dilfer caliber, at least as game managers.

We need a 3rd QB, I don't want anyone else's trash, we've had quite enough of that.

Lets develop our own.

We have 4 quarterbacks. Obviously the other two are not exactly qualified to start, just pointing that out.

 

[korl68]

Last year, I think we should've taken Brady Quinn. He was certainly worth the 9th pick in the eyes of most. It was a good spot to take that specific QB. But this year, none of the QB's are worth where we pick. Ryan isn't worth the first overall, and none of the other QB's is worth the 32nd pick, except Brohm but he likely won't be there. And if we reach for one of those QB's we lose out on overall talent, which is not only bad in itself, but it can also hinder the QB's play.

An argument can be made that one of the QB's is worth taking with the 57th pick, but there could easily be better talent available at another position of need, this draft is deep with talent.

I am not advocating reaching for anybody! I do not think Matt Rayn is worth the #1 pick either I am for drafting Jake Long if we stay at #1.

I also agree we should have taken Brady Quinn last year.

I am advocating drafting a QB that makes sense for the round he is taken in. REACHING is never good.

 

[korl68]

The Giant defense had more to do with winning that game than Manning did. They limited one of the most prolific offenses in NFL history to 14 points. Sure Manning did well, and had a great heroic moment, but through the course of the entire game he scored 17 points. If the defense didn't play at such an elite level, they would've lost. If Tyree didn't make that catch, they would've lost. It's an endless circle of dependability. Every player on an NFL team is dependant upon other players in order for their skills to thrive.

Would the Giants have won the game with Josh McCown as the QB?
Yes or No?

Would they have even made the playoff's?


It is the great individual plays a great QB can make because he has the ball in his hands EVERY offensive play that make the difference!

I have stated in many many threads it takes team balance and a franchise qb to be great. But it takes both.

Great team balance but no great QB = not great

Good maybe

I am talking about building a team for a long term run not a one year wonder.

 

[dagger151]

QB is such a magnified position. I think you have more chance to fail when you are the leader of the team and under the microscope at all times.

Its all a crapshoot anyway. Look how many QBs have been taken in the last 5 years and how many have becomes the QB that does it all and elevates his team? Without a line protecting his blindside and a receiver(s) who can not only get open but actually catch, he will likely fail. Marino had Clayton, Duper, Fryar, etc, Montana had Rice/Taylor, Aikman had Irvin and the NFL rushing leader Emmitt Smith. I wont even mention Brady! You need talent to be successful at QB. A prior post mentioned Carson Palmer - perfect example of a franchise QB drafted #1 but where has that got him? 5-11?

We have too many needs to pick Ryan #1. I do believe we should draft a QB but on day two unless Henne or Flacco drop to our 57 pick. Josh Johnson of San Diego St could be a steal in Rd 3-4. Lets get our pass rusher and OL and maybe a WR to throw to first before writing off Beck. Can we really go into a season hopeful with Ginn, Wilford, Camarillo and Hagan?

 

[burger13]

Would the Giants have won the game with Josh McCown as the QB?
Yes or No?

Would they have even made the playoff's?


It is the great individual plays a great QB can make because he has the ball in his hands EVERY offensive play that make the difference!

I have stated in many many threads it takes team balance and a franchise qb to be great. But it takes both.

Great team balance but no great QB = not great

Good maybe

I am talking about building a team for a long term run not a one year wonder.

I love it.....Eli is GREAT now.

threw the the game right into Asante Samuels hands during that 'clutch' drive....thanks Asante, otherwise the Pats are perfect and Eli is the goat.

next, 'the great escape'.....yeah, which is more likely, that this is a failure on the Patriots defenders to finish, or that Eli all of a sudden became Vince Young for a play?? Then that wounded duck of a pass....into coverage, and Tyree makes the play of a lifetime to bail them out.

and that TD pass to win it!!!! a lob to a WIDE OPEN Plaxico...wow! What a QB!! No way a Josh McCown could have done any of that. :rolleyes2:

end rant.