Would u take Patterson at 12 and trade back into 1st for a DE since draft deep at DE? | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Would u take Patterson at 12 and trade back into 1st for a DE since draft deep at DE?

I think people are jumping off the Keenan Allen and onto the Patterson bandwagon just because its something new and and maybe because hes a little faster?

IMO Allen is better in almost every category. How quickly he pulls that ball in and turns it up field, even in tight coverage is rare. The ball just disapesrs once its near him. He plays very physical, runs a large variety of routes, and is much more polished and IMO, much more of a sure thing than Patterson.

Plus we've already seen Allen take on double and triple teams, and beat them often. Thats with maynard throwing to him.
Now I like them both, but I just don't see Patterson as a better player. I think Allen is being really overlooked. When I look at the rest of the talent that realisticsly has a chance to be there at 12, IMO Allen is best player overall.
 
The big concern with Keenan Allen is that in the end he's just not special. Solid, big, good hands, runs routes fairly well, but just not special. A guy that in the SEC would've been a safety. That's always been my biggest concern with him, will you get him in the NFL and discover he's just average when everyone else is bigger, stronger and faster?

As for why Cordarrelle Patterson has become the hot dot, it's because he's a junior JUCO transfer. Remember this time two years ago everyone knew who Cam Newton was and they saw him win the national championship, but he was still being honestly discussed as a possibility for the Dolphins at #15 overall and many a Dol-Fan thought he would be a reach at that pick. The reason is because Newton was a junior JUCO transfer. He was not on anyone's radar until his one year with Auburn, he was understandably raw and progressed as the season wore on, and it just takes a while for the market to fully get their arms around where exactly a guy like that is going to be valued. Keenan Allen has been around for years, on radar for years, people are used to him and have an idea where about he will value. Patterson is going to be all over the place and it won't be probably until March before we start to really get an idea where he's going to settle in.
 
Allen is 6"3 210 and is hardly weak, I don't see him getting bullied one bit in the nfl. And He is incredibly agile. Not agile for his size, agile for any size. You can see that short area agility when he's returning kicks, or taking short passes and turning them into big gains in traffic.

Has great vision, it's incredibly rare to see a wr who brings the ball in as quick as he does and with no hesitation turns it up field immediately. There is no yards left on the field with him. I really csnt think of to many WRs in recent years who snatches the ball up out of the air as quick as he does.

I watched games where Allen was doubled and tripled and everyone on the field knew where the ball was going and he still produced. This kid is a workhorse wide reciever. I think it would be a huge mistake to pass him. This guy can beat you so way many ways.

what you said about Patterson is probably also true. He did kind of sneak up on us, but the way it seems so many Mia fans have jumped ship on Allen, to me is crazy.
 
xXwarXx said:
Allen is 6"3 210 and is hardly weak, I don't see him getting bullied one bit in the nfl. And He is incredibly agile. Not agile for his size, agile for any size. You can see that short area agility when he's returning kicks, or taking short passes and turning them into big gains in traffic.

Has great vision, it's incredibly rare to see a wr who brings the ball in as quick as he does and with no hesitation turns it up field immediately. There is no yards left on the field with him. I really csnt think of to many WRs in recent years who snatches the ball up out of the air as quick as he does.

I watched games where Allen was doubled and tripled and everyone on the field knew where the ball was going and he still produced. This kid is a workhorse wide reciever. I think it would be a huge mistake to pass him. This guy can beat you so way many ways.

what you said about Patterson is probably also true. He did kind of sneak up on us, but the way it seems so many Mia fans have jumped ship on Allen, to me is crazy.
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I didn't call him weak nor did I say he'd be bullied. I said that in the NFL the players will be bigger, stronger and faster than they were in college. In college, Keenan Allen was bigger and stronger and faster than the people he faced, and thus he looked way above average. In the NFL he could look like just a guy as everyone else is also big and strong. And when you say he doesn't leave yards on the field, I really disagree with that. I see him go to the carpet too often and it's one of the concerns I've had with him. He should be better after the catch than he's been. And sometimes it looks like he's not going all out. There are some attitude issues that I THINK (note: I do not KNOW) might be lurking under the surface. I've seen signs.

I'm not sure Dolphins fans were EVER really on board with Keenan Allen at #12 overall or even before it was known where the Dolphins would pick. That's the truth. The sentiment I saw most often was that no WR in this particular Draft is worth picking that high because none of them have the same abilities you saw from for instance an A.J. Green or Julio Jones. That's still the sentiment I'm seeing for the most part today. It's actually (strangely) non Dol-Fans, draftniks like Rob Rang and Dane Brugler, who keep having Miami pegged with Keenan Allen by virtue of "Dolphins need WR". Dolphins fans themselves have been almost downright unified thinking that there isn't really a receiver worth taking up top. I think Cordarrelle Patterson is starting to break some cracks in that wall as everyone gets their arms wrapped around what exactly he showed in Tennessee this year, as well as what he'd been doing in JUCO prior to that.
 
You make a lot of good points, although I disagree about Allen leaving yards on the field. I don't know about any attitude problems, but I know whenever I watched him he was a complete workhorse. It seemed like he had his own personal defense zone around him a lot of times, and under those conditions he still put up stats. I like that I've seen him as the only focus point of the d, and still got it done. I havnt seen that with Patterson. I couldn't even imagine what Allen would do with hunter on the other side of him.

As for everyone being faster and stronger in the NFL, you could say that about any draft pick, no?

IMO Allen is a 6"3 wr who has the talents of a 6"0 wr. It's rare to see a wr of that stature attack the defense in so many different ways. The big corners can't out muscle him and the small ones cant even keep up with him. He really has an incredibly unique set of talents. On consecutive plays you can see him bull rush a safety, and than juke out a cb.

I know most ppl see Patterson and they just see that speed and csnt get over it. I dont blame anyone, I love to. I think alleys talents are being far overlooked. There's just so much he does exceptionally well.
 
Allen reminds me of a taller mike Crabtree. Patterson reminds me of a young TO, lots of physical skills but needs refinement
 
I have a strong feeling this whole thing is moot. Im thinking Wallace or Jennings signs here for sure so we can go BPA at one...im actually positive its what happens. Then a WR later say 2nd or early 3rd...
 
xXwarXx said:
You make a lot of good points, although I disagree about Allen leaving yards on the field. I don't know about any attitude problems, but I know whenever I watched him he was a complete workhorse. It seemed like he had his own personal defense zone around him a lot of times, and under those conditions he still put up stats. I like that I've seen him as the only focus point of the d, and still got it done. I havnt seen that with Patterson. I couldn't even imagine what Allen would do with hunter on the other side of him.

As for everyone being faster and stronger in the NFL, you could say that about any draft pick, no?

IMO Allen is a 6"3 wr who has the talents of a 6"0 wr. It's rare to see a wr of that stature attack the defense in so many different ways. The big corners can't out muscle him and the small ones cant even keep up with him. He really has an incredibly unique set of talents. On consecutive plays you can see him bull rush a safety, and than juke out a cb.

I know most ppl see Patterson and they just see that speed and csnt get over it. I dont blame anyone, I love to. I think alleys talents are being far overlooked. There's just so much he does exceptionally well.
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Yes it's definitely an argument you can make about any draft pick and I should've made myself clearer on why I bring it up in particular about Keenan Allen. The reason I bring it up in particular about him is because I think that his size, speed and agility is not necessarily above average in the NFL. On the other hand, I think Cordarrelle Patterson's is above average in the NFL...possibly even elite.
 
I agree pattersons speed is elite, but is he?

I can't help but look at his stats and wonder where they are? You explained well, that they dont tell the whole story and I get that. But still, for a 12th rnd pick there is nothing impressive there. This is a guy with Justin hunter on the other side stretching the field.

I partially agree about Allen and the physical ability of the rest of the NFL, but I disagree that it will have the effect you seem to think it will. He's far to good in to many areas for that. I cant imagine what he can do in a decent offense where the he's not the only player the defense is watching.
 
It's not his speed that is going to make him elite, it's his elusiveness, agility and quickness with being that big. He only runs a high 4.4, but he's agile in short space and it's incredible for a guy his size. He can stop on a dime and change direction leaving defenders flying past him like a USC reggie bush. The guy has some elite tools to work with.

He can learn to run an NFL route, but he can't learn to be that elusive. That's natural ability.
 
ckparrothead said:
I agree with this.

Pass rushers Miami should consider at #42 overall include Cornellius Carridine and Corey Lemonier. I would be happy with either player. Both are great value for what they are.

This wide receivers class is so deep, if you've already got the guy at #12 in Patterson that you think provides the same spark for your offense that Julio Jones provides in Atlanta, and in free agency you've either re-signed Brian Hartline or decided to upgrade to Greg Jennings, then you could even wait a little while before you start rolling the dice on some other guys. For example, you could wait until the 4th round or so and roll the dice on STRENGTH guys like Marcus Davis or Chris Harper. These are guys that have a history of physically wrestling the ball in the air away from defenders, with strong hands, and then showing strength and power in their running after the catch.
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Yeah, it's just hard for me to emotionally get on board with Carridine in the first two rounds, knowing he's coming off serious late-season injury. I know that the value is outstanding, and if it weren't for the injury, I would have liked him at 12. So I'd like the pick. I just wouldn't excited about it. As for WR, I'm at a point where I want every player I add at the position to be dynamic in some way. I think you're missing out on one of the key strengths of this draft class by passing up the WR's who should be there in the 2nd and 3rd Rounds (some may fall to the 4th, who knows?). I saw Lemonier twice this season. I don't remember the other teams. But he looked very good (I think I told hoops that something about him reminds me of Wake - though he's not as explosive) in the very game and mediocre in the 2nd. I've been meaning to revisit him.
 
ckparrothead said:
Which is why people should give thought to the possibility of drafting Cordarrelle Patterson AND another player a little later on.
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This is my point exactly. As far as WRs, it seems only Patterson is looking like top 25 talent. The other WRs look to be flirting with the 2nd round. So teams will likely not allow Patterson out of the mid 1st round. But since there seems to be a good 8 DEs looking top 25, not all 8 will be taken and one or two may slip into the late 1st, especially if we select Patterson too. So I'm entertaining Patterson at 12 and trading up from the 2nd into the late 1st for that DE to secure both positions of need. To me, added pass rush and a 2nd or 3rd round CB to compete with Smith, Marshall, Patterson, Carroll, Stanford and i expect us to double up on CB in that 3rd or 4th round to improve our secondary. Not to mention, Philbin has hinted multiple times that he doesn't think it's all on the secondary, their woes. I even recall him "defend" them a few times. Then, I know people keep mentioning TE but I'm almost as certain as we'll sign either Wallace or Jennings that we'll be signing a Cook or one of the TEs in FA. Wouldn't even be surprised if we trade a mid to late round pick for Finley either.
 
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nyfinzfan said:
I have a strong feeling this whole thing is moot. Im thinking Wallace or Jennings signs here for sure so we can go BPA at one...im actually positive its what happens. Then a WR later say 2nd or early 3rd...
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No, nyfinzfan, my scenario/question of picking Patterson at 12 (includes signing Wallace or Jennings). I can not make myself clearer that I don't expect Ireland to waste money re-signing Hartline. I really believe Miami is upgrading both starting WR spots. Hartline's money is better spent signing a TE like Cook. Signing Wallace or Jennings is not only an expected outcome imo it's a no brainer. But I'm of the school of thought that Miami is not just signing a FA WR and TE to upgrade both positions, but drafting Hartline's upgrade as well.
 
Carradine is the premier DE in the field, IMO. I just think we can't miss him, wherever we take him.
 
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