Zach Extension Not Looking Promising (merged w/other Zach threads) | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Zach Extension Not Looking Promising (merged w/other Zach threads)

a guaranteed contract is just that...guaranteed. So let's say they do it like this.

Sign Zach up for oh say 2.5 mill this year, 3.5 next and then 6 in 2005. These numbers are just off my head. Zach would get all of that money.

What that does is free up 2.5 million this season, but it ultimately pays Zach a total of 12 million in three seasons. Zach (or his agent) wants the big fat 7 million signing bonus, so he gets the money now.

It's not about pro-rating, it's just what the Dolphins want to do now. If you give Zach the 750,000 base salary(if he'll take that) he is due for being a veteran, plus spread a 8 or 9 million bonus over three years, you wind up taking a larger cap hit now, and in the end...cause those kind of deals always wind up paying a base salary of 5 or 6 mill in the last year...plus the pro-rated signing bonus.

It's tough, but I am not going to worry about it until we either do or do not re-sign Zach.

87
 
I'm just amazed at the jackass in the other thread who said Zach can't cover at all. :rolleyes:

I also take issue with the notion that Zach whines and cries and doesn't "take one for the team". Correct me if I'm wrong, but Zach has restructured his contract for at least the past 3 or 4 seasons (and played with severe injuries) without raising a hair. Sacrificing money during the prime of his career (when he was among the league's Top 2 LBs) to help the team. Now that he's coming up on his last contract, he wants the Phins to show him some gratitude and respect. And who can blame him??

It's early. Zach's got another year left on his current contract. So I think Zach/Drew's current figure is the starting point. It'll come down some. But for everything Zach has done for this team, I think he deserves some coin up front.
 
Originally posted by Jaj
Look if he doesn't re-sign with us he will get cut. It is his last year and we really don't have to keep him. I don't think he would have a cap penalty, because of that. His replacement would be Cris Claiborne who would quit simply sit on Travis Henry. He would be slightly cheaper than Zach and will only be turning 25. Then in the OLB spot we cna bring in Dwayne Rudd to solidify it all. On offense we go for Doug Gabriel, Newson, and Marcus Robinson. We get ourselves Koy Detmer and Gandy. Trust me this is not as expensive as it seems.

The pay cuts from Ruddy and Rodgers will pay for Gandy. We get the money for Rudd from the 500k we save from Thomas and Perry's cut. Then we are done. We will keep the first year on Claiborne's contract cheaper than the second so that we can get under. We will be in good cap shape once Gardener's cap hit is over in 2004.

I'm not saying we should do it if Zach is cooperative though. Only if he doesn't want to comply.

I'm really, honestly beginning to think you really know nothing abou the business of football Jaj. If you cut Thomas- which is asnine thinking in and of itself- you take the entire cap hit you would have taken had you kept him since it is the last year of his contract. In other words, you cut him, and you gain no cap room and no longer have a star defender plugging the middle of your defense; yeah, that sounds really intelligent to me.

You also said, in regards to the total overhaul of the team you seem to want to make, "Trust me this is not as expensive as it seems." Since you've shown in both this and the Boston thread that you have no clue what you're talking about since you throw out statements like that and back them up with nothing more than, well, more of your own statements, why on Earth would anyone trust you??? YOU MAKE NO SENSE!

Please start thinking before you post.
 
Wait a minute what did you just say? You take the whole hit? Lol!!!

You don't know anything. You don't take anything or its minimal. Clump please confirm this.

The Boston thing is expensive. Did I state it there? No!!!!!!!
 
Originally posted by Muck
I'm just amazed at the jackass in the other thread who said Zach can't cover at all. :rolleyes:

I also take issue with the notion that Zach whines and cries and doesn't "take one for the team". Correct me if I'm wrong, but Zach has restructured his contract for at least the past 3 or 4 seasons (and played with severe injuries) without raising a hair. Sacrificing money during the prime of his career (when he was among the league's Top 2 LBs) to help the team. Now that he's coming up on his last contract, he wants the Phins to show him some gratitude and respect. And who can blame him??

It's early. Zach's got another year left on his current contract. So I think Zach/Drew's current figure is the starting point. It'll come down some. But for everything Zach has done for this team, I think he deserves some coin up front.

Unfortunately, everyone around here has- in the matter of one afternoon, and based upon one article- decided that Zach Thomas is either a cancer, a selfish bastard, a whiner, a terrible MLB, or all of the above. I have to question whether any of these people really have ever watched Zach Thomas play and if they have, were they paying attention to the fact that he's everywhere on the field at once, making saving tackles several times a game, and runs the defense like no one else possibly could.

It's kinda sad to see so many people just completely turn on the guy like this as he really has poured himself out on the field week in and week out, and has never gone half-a**ed at any time during his tenure here. You all need a reality check.
 
Wait a minute I never said I want Thomas to be cut. I'm just saying it's not the end of the world, since we have other options.
 
Originally posted by Jaj
Wait a minute I never said I want Thomas to be cut. I'm just saying it's not the end of the world, since we have other options.

If you cut a player in the final year of his contract then there is a significant salary cap hit that comes along with it. It might not be the entire amount as I stated previously, but it's pretty significant, and likely enough to make a team like the 'Fins not want to cut a star player so save a buck.

Also, you never said explicitly that you wanted ZT cut, but you intimated it by your statements about cutting him and getting Claiborne. Claiborne is OK, but he's not ZT, and he would not produce nearly as well as ZT in our system. There's also the issue of who would work the outsides? With a middle of the road player manning the middle, the outside backers would have to be very good, and we don't have one very good backer, much less two, in order to allow a star caliber player to just walk away.
 
Wait a minute ins't it the signing bonus divided by the number of years. Then you multiply by the years left in the contract. Claiborner has great upside and is young, but I wouldn't take him over Zach, I would only do it if Zazh gets fed up and wants to leave.
 
I'm really, honestly beginning to think you really know nothing abou the business of football Jaj. If you cut Thomas- which is asnine thinking in and of itself- you take the entire cap hit you would have taken had you kept him since it is the last year of his contract. In other words, you cut him, and you gain no cap room and no longer have a star defender plugging the middle of your defense; yeah, that sounds really intelligent to me.

If you cut a player in the final year of his contract then there is a significant salary cap hit that comes along with it. It might not be the entire amount as I stated previously, but it's pretty significant, and likely enough to make a team like the 'Fins not want to cut a star player so save a buck.

Unfortunately Expo you really stepped in a pile of dog doo-doo. You should be careful when trying to "expose" someone with details of how the salary cap works. You should at least know yourself.

Zach Thomas' salary cap figure this season is $6.9 million. His base salary is $5 million. That means that $1.9 million of the total figure is the prorated signing bonus. That amount ($1.9m) will count against our salary cap no matter what we do with Zach Thomas...cut, trade, keep. If we cut him, however, we do NOT have to pay him the $5 m base salary and therefore we save a total of $5 million on the salary cap by cutting Zach Thomas. Quite a large chunk.

Otherwise I agree that to release Zach would be disastrous for morale and disastrous talent-wise as well because there aren't many other backers that could do what he does in our system, but there aren't many systems where Zach would be really successful either. This is why his signing bonus is set to be like 7 or 8 million and not 19 million
 
Its easier to understand if you think about it not like 'the last year of the contract' as the primary thing but rather it being the last year is just a secondary observation. I'll put it to you this way.

Whatever money goes from the Dolphins to Zach Thomas' bank account MUST be counted against the salary cap. For now we'll ignore such complicated matters as incentives and roster bonuses.

There are two forms of payment. Base salary, and signing bonus. The bonus as you know is paid UP FRONT. But, since teams don't want to count that entire bonus in the first year, the NFL relented and put it in the guidelines that the signing bonus could be spaced out in equal parts over the life of the contract.

So lets take a 5 year contract with a $5 million signing bonus. The base salary in the years would be as follows (because I say so, for sh!ts and giggles)

Base Salaries
Year 1: $1 million
Year 2: $2 million
Year 3: $3 million
Year 4: $4 million
Year 5: $5 million

But the $5 million signing bonus (paid upon signature) is broken up equally over the five years. So the amount of money against the cap that the signing bonus takes up is as follows

Year 1: $1 million
Year 2: $1 million
Year 3: $1 million
Year 4: $1 million
Year 5: $1 million

(sorry if I seem condescending I'm just trying to make this simple)

So the following would be the total cap figures of the player in all 5 years of the life of the contract (ie base salary + signing bonus prorate)

Year 1: $2 million
Year 2: $3 million
Year 3: $4 million
Year 4: $5 million
Year 5: $6 million

Now lets shake things up a bit. Lets say that the team cuts the player right before Year 3 is about to begin (ie before June 1st). Then we have a problem. There's $3 million of signing bonus that has yet to be fully counted against the salary cap of the team. The money in question has already changed hands from team to player so its not like we could just write it off and say we don't have to pay it! So by NFL guidelines that $3 million that has yet to be counted gets "accelerated" to the salary cap of the year they are cutting the guy.

But, the team no longer has to pay the player his BASE SALARY for that year either. So while you can whipe the Year 3 base salary of $3 million off the record books, you have to accelerate the $3 million of signing bonus that you've already paid the player when he signed but have yet to count against the salary cap ($2 million of the $5 million bonus have already been counted against the cap in years 1 and 2).

So basically, cutting the guy in Year 3 means you save $1 million because you are counting $3 million of accelerated bonus against the cap, and no base salary, where before you were counting $3 million of base salary and only $1 million of prorated bonus for a total of $4 million. So cutting the dude in Year 3 makes his total cap figure go down from $4 million, to $3 million.

Lets take it to Year 5 (ie the FINAL YEAR as per Zach's case). Base Salary of $5 million, plus the $1 million signing bonus prorate, means the total cap figure for that year is $6 million. But lets say you cut the dude because he's old and stupid and fat. Well, you still have $1 million of signing bonus left that hasn't been counted against the cap yet ....so its gotta be counted against this year's cap as if he was still on the roster. But there are no future years, so there is no prorated bonus to accelerate. So the CUT player has a total cap charge of just the $1 million signing bonus prorate. The $5 million base salary does not need to be paid, so the player's salary cap figure for Year 5 after being cut goes from $6 million, to $1 million.

Next week on PBS, we'll take a look at cutting guys after June 1st. Oh the drama....
 
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Thanks that should clear some things up. I hate getting insulted by someone who doesn't know what the hell is talking about.

Thomas is going to tie up Rosenhaus with a cable and save us money.

He will come through for us.

All I said is that if Zach wants to leave then we shouldn't go out of our way to re-signing him to a huge contract. It's not bad being prepared...

Still I think Zach will save us 3 million on the cap. He loves this team and the city loves him. On the defense he is the first thing I think of when I say Miami defense.
 
Well Jaj you did come on a little more than strong saying that if Zach doesn't play ball he should be cut and replaced. I believe it was you that even went so far as to say that the team would understand or see that the coaches were doing something to get their butts in gear or something to that effect and that the NFL is a business and you don't need to pay heed to morale and stuff. I think that was you.

So perhaps you made a mistake and went too far by saying a dude that lots of people love dearly should be cut. Its not surprising Expo reacted the way he did, he just didn't have the facts as many of us do not on many issues.
 
No that one was not me. I forget who it was that said that. I have always been a Thomas fan and I reiterate if he wants to leave then that's his choice. I personally think Rosenhaus is trying to land him somewhere else. The guy seriosuly controls way too many players!!!

I don't think Wanny would be able to sleep peacefully if somebody even found out he was planning on cutting Thomas.

I reiterate again Expo. Zach Thomas cut= not end of the world, must be by Thomas' decision

I see Zach in a fin uniform for the rest of his career, or atleast 3 more.
 
OK, I made a mistake on that one- I checked the interned to verify how that worked and I WAS WRONG! That doesn't change the fact that most of what you've written here in the past couple of days Jaj, has been total and complete nonsense Boston and Thomas. With Boston, you're kinda on your own- I would love to see the guy in a 'Fins uniform but your logic of teams wanting Hillard and Dyson above one of the best players at his position in the game is seriously flawed.

On the ZT thing, you're not alone, but you fall into the category of knee jerk 'Fin-fans on this one who want to see ZT lynched for not accepting the offer as it currently stands. You (and the rest of the newfound clan of Zach-trashers) have decided that he simply isn't worth what he is: a top 5 LB. If this were a Fiedler argument where the numbers didn't match the intensity then both sides would have points and there would be a million different reasons for either side to make their case, but Zach is not Fiedler, and his numbers are THE best in game over the course of the time he's been in the league and he hasn't slowed down one bit; he tied a career high for tackles last season for goodness sakes!

My point here is that the guy is much more valuable than most of you- who are suddenly trashing him- make him out to be, and you all are giving the guy zero credit after reading one article from ES-friggin-PN, at least wait for a couple of other articles, explaining both sides, to come out before you jump down his throat.
 
Now let me make this very clear. I am NOT for the release/trade of Zack. I think he is still a wounderful player, But......

The one phrase I have seen over and over is " our system", well let me play devils advocite for a second. Maybe our system is flawed. I think we can all agree that we have to have real good DT play for Zack to thrive, if not he gets taken out of the play. As Ck has stated, if you put Zack in anouther system he would more than likely not do as well. IF Zack were to be relesed/traded would that free up our Dt's to be more agressive, as opposed to staying home to take up blockers for Zack? With more agressive DT play, would that take some pressure of JT? With more agressive Dt play to get to the QB would JT's production go up? Are we really in fact keeping M. Greenwood from becoming the OLB he could grow into? With our front 7 system geared almost exclusivly twords Zack and JT, being the main play makers, and the rest are supporting cast, could the rest do more and really thrive in a different system? Just some food for thought.

I really hope Zack resigns and things work out. He has been the heart and soul of this team.
 
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