1 NFL Fan Base Is Desperately Wishing For DeVonta Smith

[mnphinfan]

Or ATL calls - 'we'll give you #4 and our R3. Should that offer be refused because it isn't 'fair,' or should they take it because they still get the guy they want and, at least, something?

This is a really poor example. If you're trading from 3 to 4 and Atl is taking a QB then anyone would absolutely do it. It's a free 4th round pick and it helps on the salary scale.

I'm talking about making a trade from 3 to that 7-10 range where you have no idea where players will go. Lowest I'd go is 5. That gives you Smith or Chase. Although highly unlikely, I'd even consider another trade back from 5 to 7 if we were still guaranteed one of the wr's. The FO could then use those extra picks to trade up in either the 1'st or 2'nd and get a player they have highly rated that slips on their board.

So much fluidity is possibly this draft for the Fins it's crazy.

 

[Gonzofinfan]

I am not as sold on DaVonta Smith as most people on this board. I worry about his size and durability in this very physical league. He doesn't have Desean Jackson speed and he will not be able to dominate NFL CB's the way he has college kids. Sure, he'll be a good WR, but look at the transition for guys like Jerry Jeudy, Henry Ruggs, and Laviska Shenault. Jeudy is a phenomenal route runner, Ruggs has elite speed, and Shenault is probably the most like DaVonta Smith ... but none of those guys are overly physical, and none became instant-stars. Contrast that with guys like Chase Claypool and DK Metcalf who are physical guys and have had good success. Running against air always looks good for the fast guys, but once the NFL defenders get their heavy hands on these guys ... the game changes.

IMHO, the best WR prospect in this class is Ja'Marr Chase. We didn't see him this year, but I am confident he will produce if healthy. And, I'm more confident that he can stay healthy.

There are some craptastic QB's Shenault Jeudy, and Ruggs have throwing them the football as well as their teams being heavily run oriented offenses.. Shenault is going to be great when lawerence gets there along with DJ Chark, Ruggs did pretty well for a rookie with a mediocre QB, Jeudy is on a run first offense with an average QB.

Claypool and Metcalf have all pro QB's throwing them the football, You left out Justin Jefferson, Ceedee Lamb as well as Tee Higgins who also had great years respectively, My biggest regret of 2020 was not going after a WR because there were some damn good ones in that draft.

There's always a mold until somebody breaks it, To me the truest comparison NFL wise is not those wr's you listed but he is most like Cee Dee Lamb, Good Route runner Good Hands and a Natural Receiver with field speed.. I'd take him He will naturally bulk up but i don't think you can teach Hands, Speed, or Quickness which he has in abundance.

 

[juniorseau55]

A trade is a matter of principle. If we are seeking something, then somebody else will have something and we would have to pay whatever price they are asking. Even if Miami can somehow lure Watson over to us, we still need to fill that roster with proven talent to keep him here. We can't simply pull a Wannestead and trade away too many picks. They will be requiring us to give away at least a 1st round pick for Watson, and further compensation. Either how, if Tua leaves here he will find success elsewhere like Tannehill since the Dolphins have a good history of making shitty moves.

 

[BigNastyFish]

How did Dieter work out in year 2?

he actually did OK in limited action. Did you watch the games?

 

[hoops]

There was a lot of scheme driven production last night. A lot of it. All that motion in the backfield and then redirecting etc to outflank. Best thing I saw was the outflank. Glides. Very fluid redirect with it.

someone else nailed it. He’s Allen iverson minus the off field baggage and ego.

 

[Digital]

Folks are so absolutely blinded by brand names and hype -- they just ignore other considerations and concerns...
Anyone who thinks Smith is going to do what he's done in college in the Pros may be in for a rude awakening.
I'm not saying the kid isn't a player ------ but he's benefiting IMMENSELY given the situation he's in and
the talent he's surrounded by. The lopsided equation ENDS abruptly at the next level.

I agree Chase looks more NFL to me and less of gamble. But IMO grabbing any WR in this draft at #3
is a serious loss of value. I'd rather take the OT than WR. But that's not the potential grand prize pick...

Well said brother!

Everyone recognizes that the NFL is faster at every position, and studies much harder than college kids at finer football points. But sometimes, fans do not always recognize that everyone who plays LB and DB in the pros is incredibly jacked, incredibly strong and toned. Sure, collegiate OL and DL are strong, and sometimes TE's and edge rushers. But, the rest of those guys tend to be fast, skinny kids. Yes, they work out ... but as people age and their body matures ... muscle development continues and good muscle mass gets packed on and flabby beer weight disappears. EVERYONE in the NFL is a physical freak on some level, and the difference in talent between teams is alarmingly small. Every player is working hard and looking for an edge--which is why HoF players will use expensive supplements like deer antler extract.

When a guy is too lean and not strong enough ... he gets gets manhandled by dominant physical DB's like Xavien Howard or Richard Sherman. Remember, those guys weren't anything close to their NFL dominance when they were in college. Remember, those guys were not instant-success in the NFL. College doesn't really develop those guys to the levels they need to succeed in the NFL ... it takes a year or two. So, while DaVonta Smith has had success running in space against college DB's ... he hasn't really faced many guys who get their hands on him and dominate his thin frame. There simply aren't any NFL level physical corners at the collegiate level. Even a guy I like in college--Paulson Adebo--is going to need a year to transition from "college-level physical" press man coverage to "NFL-level physical" press man coverage. So, a WR who hasn't faced that level of physical press is going to have a very large change to their WR style to avoid being pushed off their route timing. It's just the reality of the NFL, much like some kids are too small or too slow for big-time college programs.

Smith will succeed, but it will take a major increase in strength to consistently stay on his route and not destroy the QB's timing and expected window for throwing the ball.

 

[Digital]

If it’s remotely close between Chase and Smith, I choose the guy that played this year

I choose the better player. There's a lot of support for taking the BPA ... BEST Player Available. We don't typically see a lot of support for the player with the most recent tape. You clearly said "if it's remotely close ..." and to me that is the whole argument. I also want guys who play over guys who do not. But, at the end of the day, I take the guy I think will be the better player, and IMHO, Ja'Marr Chase simply has the physical makeup to succeed more than DaVonta Smith. Just my $0.02, but that's my opinion.

Reasonable minds may differ.

 

[Digital]

In what way is he most similar to Shenault? Smith is an elite route runner - just as good as Jeudy in that area if not better, but he's more versatile and catches/plays the ball much better.

Because both excel in space. Sorry if that wasn't clear, but both guys have game-breaking ability in space.

 

[rafael]

I don't watch Alabama games because I my disdain for Saban, although I still respect what he has accomplished. I don't write off any players that come from Alabama because of my feelings . All I can say, is WOW about this kid. I don't know what I was more impressed with

1. His route running
2. His body control
3. Catching ability
4. Attitude

You can tell he is just there to play ball and not showboat, who knows what he does at the NFL level, but he deserves wherever he is drafted.

If you ever watch clips of the all-22, you see so many plays where Smith embarrasses the CB (CB trips over his own feet or just gets so crossed up he's falling over), but the ball doesn't go to him. It's impressive as hell. (I share your disdain for Saban, so Alabama is not on my watch list unless it's Dolphin prospect related, as it has been for the last couple of years). The thing I see with Smith, which I can't recall seeing in any other WR prospect, is how often he's setting up both the CB and the S. I've seen many great route runners who can get separation on one on one coverage and Smith certainly does that. But he also seems to have a plan that sets up the S over the top. He just appears to be thinking so many steps ahead.

I expect that he'll end up testing faster than many believe. He has such a smooth running style that he doesn't appear fast, or at least not as fast as he probably is. I also wouldn't be surprized if he weighs heavier than most expect. He's listed at 175, but reality is that he's at that stage on his life where young men tend to put on weight. I think his pro-day numbers will end up surprising many of those who are saying he doesn't have decent size. Even if he doesn't put on much weight before the pro-day, odds are that he'll put on another 20 lbs or so in his first couple of years in the league. At 6'1" 195 nobody would be complaining about his size at all.

If Miami trades down past #6, Smith won’t make it past Philadelphia

I agree. On just a talent basis, I have Smith as top 5. QBs get drafted higher of course, but just based on talent I think you have Lawrence, Sewell, Smith, Chase and Parsons. IMO those are the 5 most talented players in the draft and positional value aside, I think a reasonable argument can be made that any of those 5 is the best football player in the draft.

 

[dan the fin]

There are some craptastic QB's Shenault Jeudy, and Ruggs have throwing them the football as well as their teams being heavily run oriented offenses.. Shenault is going to be great when lawerence gets there along with DJ Chark, Ruggs did pretty well for a rookie with a mediocre QB, Jeudy is on a run first offense with an average QB.

Claypool and Metcalf have all pro QB's throwing them the football, You left out Justin Jefferson, Ceedee Lamb as well as Tee Higgins who also had great years respectively, My biggest regret of 2020 was not going after a WR because there were some damn good ones in that draft.

There's always a mold until somebody breaks it, To me the truest comparison NFL wise is not those wr's you listed but he is most like Cee Dee Lamb, Good Route runner Good Hands and a Natural Receiver with field speed.. I'd take him He will naturally bulk up but i don't think you can teach Hands, Speed, or Quickness which he has in abundance.

Pretty much this the mold has been broken. The NFL is not some big bad physical style on WRs anymore. There is no more Steve Atwater looking to bash a WRs head in. Rules have changed it no more hitting a defenseless player, no more bumping and grabbing all the way down the field. Go look at the leaders in yards and catches. How many are these so called physical freak guys anymore? Not many.

The name of the game is the ability to create seperation in today's NFL.

 

[Dan13Forever]

Who needs an awesome weapon like Smith when we can just draft an OT at 3?......Scoring points is overrated in the NFL. We need to draft corn and more corn......we don't need playmakers.

Sewell fan boys are silent the last few days. May be they finally realize its not gonna happen.

 

[DolfanDuBbZ~]

When your QB has all day to throw, of course only this fanbase would attribute that to a WR.

 

[DolfanDuBbZ~]

Sewell fan boys are silent the last few days. May be they finally realize its not gonna happen.

Not really. I myself understand the process going forward. Fan boy or not.

 

[rafael]

I choose the better player. There's a lot of support for taking the BPA ... BEST Player Available. We don't typically see a lot of support for the player with the most recent tape. You clearly said "if it's remotely close ..." and to me that is the whole argument. I also want guys who play over guys who do not. But, at the end of the day, I take the guy I think will be the better player, and IMHO, Ja'Marr Chase simply has the physical makeup to succeed more than DaVonta Smith. Just my $0.02, but that's my opinion.

Reasonable minds may differ.

I don't think that's an unreasonable position. I don't agree, however, b/c I see Smith as more well-rounded. The areas where I see Smith as superior are on short and intermediate routes. Smith is more sudden and gets more separation on those routes. And those routes are a big part of the current NFL game in general and I expect on the Dolphins in particular depending on whom our OC is. I also think that Smith is a more willing and more capable run blocker. He seems to like to do it and does it consistently well. I see that as vitally important in what I hope and suspect will be a balanced Miami offense going forward. The rest of their games are very comparable. I expect that will both be 4.4 guys or better (Smith may test a bit faster). I think they are both excellent on deep routes. They both have very good hands (IMO Smith is more consistent). They are both excellent on contested catches (IMO Chase has a slight advantage here). So overall I have Smith slightly above Chase and that doesn't account for the Tua/Smith connection and trust that already exists. IMO that makes Smith the better choice for Miami.

 

[hoops]

you ain’t adding many pounds on those twig legs I can tell ya that.

I don’t think it really much matters. This isn’t a build speed guy he’s fluid and redirects exceptionally well. Glides all over the place. Takes contact better than the frame would suggest. That frame is like tedd Ginn although ginn was probably a little more high cut. Ginn couldn’t run routes like that and was a build speed guy all the way.

but I do get the feeling that bama has some scheme based production in its offense. Stuff that I didn’t seem to recognize with tua that I’m recognizing more now.

sark did a good job yesterday of getting the ball into smiths hands in space where he mostly outflanked the edge. Minus a very poor coverage call to have the lb carry vs Smith off a clean release. No chance on that.

I will say one thing I expected Smith to make more guys miss one on one in short spaces than he did. Ohio state dbs did a good job of first man making the tackle at times. Better atbletes at corner than I expected maybe. That db wade drove on a few in cuts also and arrived more than I though he would vs Smith.

it’s becoming paralysis by over-analysis in some regards. He’s got the football character work ethic and skill set to do a lot of damage in the pros. I don’t care about any finger injury either that stuff can happen to anyone.