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2008 Mets Thread

The FA market is flooded with outfielders: Barroid, Reggie Sanders, Shannon Stewart...even Green. Yes, any of those guys would give us problems defensively, but I don't think finding a stopgap in RF would be a problem until Fernando is ready, presumably in 2009. I could live with a year of any of those guys.

And I would seriously consider Barroid if we traded Church. Why not? The worst of the media circus is over, and you're left with a guy who hits a ton of homers and draws a ton of walks. And we've got Endy to rest him periodically and use as a late inning defensive sub.
Washed up OF's...yeah its flooded with those.

One thing I am extremely thankful for in this instance...the wilpons are way too image wary to ever sign Barroid. And Im not sure Barroid would fit in so well in the same clubhouse as David Wright based on this and he actually likes Lo duca: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3212629

If any of those I suppose I could live with sanders but hes very injury prone. I dont ever want Green back and Shannon Stewart is a 4th OF at this point.

Also youre on the assumption Fernando is ready next year lest we forget hes still only 18. Im not sure he sniffs the bigs til 2010 unless theres a slew of injuries.
 
Bannister was never getting a chance here...hes a #3 on KC which is like being a Minor league #1 on a real MLB team. Getting Burgos could eventually turn out to be a coupe. If this upsets you then you wont ever be happy with any GM. Its a minor deal where he took a chance on a power arm which our pen needed. Plus we may have a post Wagner closer. Too early to determine either way on this deal.

Actually, I liked the Bannister deal at the time, so I fully admit I'm Monday Morning QBing on this one. But then, I'm not paid to make decisions for the Mets. However, Bannister had a miniscule walk rate and a similarly tiny HR rate, and parlayed that into a 12-9 record with a 3.87 ERA in the AL last year. Burgos bounced between the Mets, New Orleans and the DL last year. It's possible that Burgos might turn into another Billy Wagner, and it's possible that Bannister's low K rate will catch up to him. But the odds of BOTH those things happening are slim, and that's what needs to happen for this to work out. A good, or even average, starter is worth much more than a good reliever. Minaya left the rotation relying on a lot of questionable pitchers, so he could take a flier on an injury prone kid, prone to wildness, with a good fastball.

Bell wanted out, hated Peterson, hated NY. He wasnt going to be successful here cause he didnt want to listen. Cant fault omar he got whatever he could get.

Bell can kick Peterson's dog and stick pins in a Jacket voodoo doll for all I care, as long as he throws strikes...which he does. Think about this for a second: they traded an adequate starting pitcher so they could get a live-armed reliever with a checkered track record. Then they traded a live-armed reliever with a track record that made him a very good bet for success for a spare part outfielder who played all of 9 games for the Mets and is (I believe) no longer with the team.

I didn't like the Bell for Ben Johnson trade at the time, and I flat out hate it now. I didn't understand what Johnson gave the team that Endy Chavez didn't.

The Lidstrom/Owens trade I cant defend, I hated that deal too. Kinda defeated the purpose of the Burgos deal.

Good God, that was a terrible trade. Indefensible at the time and worse in retrospect.

The Nady deal we've discussed in legnth numerous times. The only new info Ive since found out was that cameron did not want to play RF and apparently requested the deal. So again, not necessarily a bad deal.

I know we're just going to agree to disagree on this one, but let me fire one last parting shot: Cameron had more power, more speed, drew more walks, and was better defensively than Nady. It was a cost-cutting move on a team that didn't need to cut costs. The only reason it worked out for the Mets was because Sanchez got injured, forcing Minaya to trade Nady for Hernandez and Perez.

You also left out such coupes like getting Maine for Benson and Julio, getting Duque for nothing great, Marlon Anderson and Duaner Sanchez on the cheap, Castillo for nothing at teh deadline last year, and lest we forget the recruitment of Pedro, Beltran, wagner. I cant say that hes done a bad job at all.

For the record, Jorge Julio has pitched very well since leaving the Mets in the El Duque trade. I think there's something to the oft-overblown theory that he never would have succeeded in NY, but it's worth mentioning that he posted a 3.83 ERA for the D-Backs and then a 3.93 for the Rox after leaving NY. I'd still do the trade in a heartbeat, of course.

Re: Anderson, getting a guy with a career .713 OPS and no definable position, who happened to have a hot streak last year in NY doesn't exactly take away the sting of giving away Heath Bell for nothing.

Obviously, Seo for Sanchez was a good deal, and Benson for Maine and Julio remains one of Minaya's two crowning achievements (the Beltran signing is the other), for which he deserves a ton of credit.

But, that's why it's a checkered track record. I didn't say he's done a terrible job, but for every good trade, he's made one bad one. However, the Castillo move, while a good trade in terms of value for value, is going to turn out badly. The fact that Minaya handed him a four year contract boggles the mind.

And my point was that his trades have been uneven, not that he's been bad with big ticket free agent moves...which goes to ownership almost as much as Minaya.
 
Actually, I liked the Bannister deal at the time, so I fully admit I'm Monday Morning QBing on this one. But then, I'm not paid to make decisions for the Mets. However, Bannister had a miniscule walk rate and a similarly tiny HR rate, and parlayed that into a 12-9 record with a 3.87 ERA in the AL last year. Burgos bounced between the Mets, New Orleans and the DL last year. It's possible that Burgos might turn into another Billy Wagner, and it's possible that Bannister's low K rate will catch up to him. But the odds of BOTH those things happening are slim, and that's what needs to happen for this to work out. A good, or even average, starter is worth much more than a good reliever. Minaya left the rotation relying on a lot of questionable pitchers, so he could take a flier on an injury prone kid, prone to wildness, with a good fastball.
Again, the thing with Bannister is that he was never going to get a shot here. He didnt fit right or wrong. And wherever he goes hes a 5 inning finesse pitcher who walks a ton of hitters. So either he taxes the pen and gets some w's throwing a 110 pitches in 5 innings or his stats catch up to him.

As far as Burgos: You can teach control. You can teach someone how to pitch. You cannot teach velocity past a certain degree. I would always take my chances with a live power arm except....



Bell can kick Peterson's dog and stick pins in a Jacket voodoo doll for all I care, as long as he throws strikes...which he does. Think about this for a second: they traded an adequate starting pitcher so they could get a live-armed reliever with a checkered track record. Then they traded a live-armed reliever with a track record that made him a very good bet for success for a spare part outfielder who played all of 9 games for the Mets and is (I believe) no longer with the team.

I didn't like the Bell for Ben Johnson trade at the time, and I flat out hate it now. I didn't understand what Johnson gave the team that Endy Chavez didn't.
.....when it comes to Heath Bell.
1. Bell didnt want to be here
2. Bell would not listen to Rick Peterson.

What do you do with your employees when theyre insubordinate and said they didnt like your organization or your city? You get rid of the infection before it spreads. So yeah, Bell had a nice year last year, but he wasnt having that year here so good riddance.

I know we're just going to agree to disagree on this one, but let me fire one last parting shot: Cameron had more power, more speed, drew more walks, and was better defensively than Nady. It was a cost-cutting move on a team that didn't need to cut costs. The only reason it worked out for the Mets was because Sanchez got injured, forcing Minaya to trade Nady for Hernandez and Perez.
See Bell. Cameron had requested the trade because he did not want to play RF. You can view at as a cost cutting move but anyway you cut it the production was comprarable for a guy who wanted to play everyday. And plus one has to wonder how Camerons steroid allegations tied in to the whle Kirk Radmonski thing. There could be more to it then we will ever find out.

For the record, Jorge Julio has pitched very well since leaving the Mets in the El Duque trade. I think there's something to the oft-overblown theory that he never would have succeeded in NY, but it's worth mentioning that he posted a 3.83 ERA for the D-Backs and then a 3.93 for the Rox after leaving NY. I'd still do the trade in a heartbeat, of course.

Re: Anderson, getting a guy with a career .713 OPS and no definable position, who happened to have a hot streak last year in NY doesn't exactly take away the sting of giving away Heath Bell for nothing.

Obviously, Seo for Sanchez was a good deal, and Benson for Maine and Julio remains one of Minaya's two crowning achievements (the Beltran signing is the other), for which he deserves a ton of credit.

But, that's why it's a checkered track record. I didn't say he's done a terrible job, but for every good trade, he's made one bad one. However, the Castillo move, while a good trade in terms of value for value, is going to turn out badly. The fact that Minaya handed him a four year contract boggles the mind.
Heres how much a relievers era means: Julio had that sterling era and still more blown saves in a fraction of the chances Joe Borowski had and Borowski had 45 saves last year.

Also your stats are wrong, you cant pick and choose which ones youre going to include bro :lol:.

2006 total: 4.23
2007 total: 5.23

As far as Anderson, the move was brilliant. He excelled off the bench in a utility role the last time he was here and he did it again last year. Part of building a team is finding guys who accept their roles. Anderson does that despite the fact he wants to start.

As far as Castillo...time will tell. I hate that we gave a 4 year deal to a 32 year old who's game is speed and contact but has 50 year old knees and hips. Hate it. But the caveat is that now that the contract thing is lingering over Castillo maybe he will have an even better year. Hes publicly said it did affect him yet he still played fairly well for us.

And my point was that his trades have been uneven, not that he's been bad with big ticket free agent moves...which goes to ownership almost as much as Minaya.
As far as the FA's...Minaya gets all the credit short of signing the paychecks. He did the recruitment. he was the one who flew to pedro's house. he was the one who spent, what, 2 days, with beltran and his family selling him on NY. He was the one who spent a week with Billy Wagner in bum-something West VA to sell him on NY. The wilpons did nothing except sign the check. They deserve the credit for being able to sign their own name sort of like the SAT's give you a 100 points for doing that right. :kick:



Also of interest: Lo duca has an MRI scheduled for tomarrow....http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3214668
 
AUGH! I had a lengthy response to Boik's post above, and it must have been lost in the chaos on the site over the weekend! If I get the energy, I'll retype it.
 
If the Mets were to move Church in a Santana deal, one appealing option might be Cubs OF Matt Murton. Mind you, I've seen no speculation anywhere that he might be a target, but Murton is the kind of cheap, underrated guy that could be had for a bargain. The Cubs are pretty much set on moving him at this point, since Lou Pinella hates him, but Murton has a good bat and can get on base. I like the idea of a lineup that can wear out pitchers from 1 to 7 (and then...sadly, Brian Schneider).

Here's a link to his major and minor league stats.
 
mets getting any closer to santana?
 
mets getting any closer to santana?

I'd say so. The Red Sox apparently pulled Lester off the table and the Yankees pulled Hughes off making a trade to either of those teams almost impossible.

If I were a betting man I'd say he'll be a Met by Valentine's Day. Unless of course Hankensteiner wakes up one morning forgets to take his meds and throws the moon at the Twins (don't laugh it could happen).
 
I'd say so. The Red Sox apparently pulled Lester off the table and the Yankees pulled Hughes off making a trade to either of those teams almost impossible.

If I were a betting man I'd say he'll be a Met by Valentine's Day. Unless of course Hankensteiner wakes up one morning forgets to take his meds and throws the moon at the Twins (don't laugh it could happen).


I saw Cashman and Theo Epstein at my school the other night. That's when Cashman got in trouble for his Bernie remarks. They were very down to earth and funny.

And Theo said and I quote, He thought a NY team or no team would get Santana, and cashman looked at him and he said, not your team.
 
mets getting any closer to santana?

Stay tuned. Like I said, something will almost certainly happen in the next week.

If anyone cares, here's my odds line:

Mets - 1 to 2.
Yankees - 2 to 1.
No trade - 4 to 1.
Red Sox - 5 to 1.
The Field - 10 to 1.
 
Minaya is going to give away the store trying to obtain Santana. :lol:

Hey Billy Wagner says he thinks the Mets are "Third best." :up:

http://www.metsblog.com/2008/01/28/note-wagner-says-mets-are-third-best/#comments

I've been critical of Minaya before (see, like, the entire rest of this thread), but I give him an immense amount of credit for how he's handled this so far. He knows he's got the best deal on the table, and he's not budging when the Twins keep asking for Fernando Martinez.

If Minaya gets Santana for a package of Gomez, Humber, Guerra and Mulvey (or something similar), I promise to forgive every single stupid-*** trade he's made as GM....
Keppinger for Gotay? Forgiven.
Bell and Ring for Johnson and Adkins? Forgiven.
Stanton for Heredia? Forgiven.
Bannister for Burgos? Forgiven.
Owens and Lindstrom for Vargas and Bostick? Forgiven.
Milledge for Church and Schneider? Forgiven.

And yes, Boik, even Cameron for Nady is forgiven. :wink:
 
I'd say so. The Red Sox apparently pulled Lester off the table and the Yankees pulled Hughes off making a trade to either of those teams almost impossible.

If I were a betting man I'd say he'll be a Met by Valentine's Day. Unless of course Hankensteiner wakes up one morning forgets to take his meds and throws the moon at the Twins (don't laugh it could happen).
I Lol'ed at Hankensteiner..thats actually really good. Ill pay the Finkle tax everytime I borrow that :beer1:
 
I've been critical of Minaya before (see, like, the entire rest of this thread), but I give him an immense amount of credit for how he's handled this so far. He knows he's got the best deal on the table, and he's not budging when the Twins keep asking for Fernando Martinez.

If Minaya gets Santana for a package of Gomez, Humber, Guerra and Mulvey (or something similar), I promise to forgive every single stupid-*** trade he's made as GM....
Keppinger for Gotay? Forgiven.
Bell and Ring for Johnson and Adkins? Forgiven.
Stanton for Heredia? Forgiven.
Bannister for Burgos? Forgiven.
Owens and Lindstrom for Vargas and Bostick? Forgiven.
Milledge for Church and Schneider? Forgiven.

And yes, Boik, even Cameron for Nady is forgiven. :wink:
As long as there is no Fernando Martinez involved and we get to keep one from Pelfrey/Mulvey/Guerra we are on the same page here.
 
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