'85 Dolphins dodged a bullet by not making Superbowl.

[fishfanmiami]

Marino chocked. All that needs to be said. He's the opposite of Brady.

 

[eMCee85]

Thanks for the post as it gave me a reason to watch that game again today.

Omg i love you for posting this. I just watched it again as well. Marino wasn't the best but his worst was still better than anything we had since him. Such an awesome game to watch. I wish so bad the rules we the same as back then. This NFL is so watered down these days.

 

[eMCee85]

Mark Clayton. A 6th round draft pick out of Louisville, we can find another WR not in the first.

 

[fishfanmiami]

Mark Clayton. A 6th round draft pick out of Louisville, we can find another WR not in the first.

This thread is about the bears game brother

 

[royalshank]

No, you’ve choked. Not only in take, but also in spelling the word. Nicely done.

You’re right about one thing. Brady and Marino are opposites in that Brady’s has never taken an obviously flawed team and carried them further than they should have gone.

Elway did it. Marino did it.

Brady, like Montana, was fortunate to play with a lot of HOF talent both on defense and special teams and for head coaches ahead of their time. And also benefitted from a lot more help from his teammates than many other great QB’s got.

Sad that folks can’t see things for what they truly are. Brady is certainly an all time great. So was Montana. But they never carried inferior teams just due to their own greatness. Sorry.

It’s a lot easier to rack up championships playing for teams that have defenses yielding less that 20 points in conference championship games and SB’s. And whose kickers actually make clutch kick after clutch kick.

Pop quiz: how many titles did the 49ers and Patriots win when their defense surrendered 30+ points in postseason games? Or their kicker missed wide right at the end of the game??

Far too many so called fans really don’t understand this game.

100%. It’s also why Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Brees, Tarkington etc have 0 or only 1 SB win despite being on the doorstep so many times. Some will say “1 is better than none” but for these men, I’m certain they look at it as a failure.

 

[EJay]

100%. It’s also why Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Brees, Tarkington etc have 0 or only 1 SB win despite being on the doorstep so many times. Some will say “1 is better than none” but for these men, I’m certain they look at it as a failure.

The one time Favre and Rodgers were part of a winner, they had pretty good defenses. And a very good all-around team. Something that not so coincidentally wasn’t the case for much of their careers.

When Favre and his Pack won in 1997, the defense yielded an average of 13.5 points per game. They yielded 16 per game in the postseason. And gave up 21 in the SB.

When Rodgers and his Pack won in 2010, they yielded an average of 20.5 per game (offensive friendly rule era). They yielded 19 per game in the postseason. And gave up 25 in the SB (and barely won).

I researched it a long while ago and am not going to do it again now, but IIRC the Super Bowl winning team typically has around 21 or 22 points scored against them. The Conference Championship games were quite similar.

So in simple terms, hold the opponent under 22 — you win. If the opponent scores anything above that, your chances aren’t so great. Give up 30 and the chances are very, very slim — although it has been done. But it’s typically an automatic L.

In the 7 playoff losses suffered during the Shula-Marino years, the Dolphins surrendered an average of 32.5 per game. Only one game was at 22 or under.

In the 3 playoff losses suffered during the Johnson-Marino years, the Dolphins surrendered 39. Only one game was at 22 or under.

So all 10 playoff losses, there were only 2 games where the opponent scored 22 or less.
The points surrendered in those other games: 27, 38, 31, 44, 29, 37, 38, 62

Yet the uneducated and clueless want to blame Marino. Go figure.

No other QB you can name would have drastically changed or overcame those outcomes.

Lastly, Marino’s numbers in the postseason reflect that of a QB that had to take more chances to keep pace or overcome deficits. Especially during the prime of his career, those deficits weren’t caused because Marino was throwing pick 6’s or performing poorly. The defense just couldn’t stop anybody and he had the ultimate pressure of keeping them in the game.

All things considered, he accomplished that about as well as any QB could. That’s the truth.

 

[royalshank]

The one time Favre and Rodgers were part of a winner, they had pretty good defenses. And a very good all-around team. Something that not so coincidentally wasn’t the case for much of their careers.

When Favre and his Pack won in 1997, the defense yielded an average of 13.5 points per game. They yielded 16 per game in the postseason. And gave up 21 in the SB.

When Rodgers and his Pack won in 2010, they yielded an average of 20.5 per game (offensive friendly rule era). They yielded 19 per game in the postseason. And gave up 25 in the SB (and barely won).

I researched it a long while ago and am not going to do it again now, but IIRC the Super Bowl winning team typically has around 21 or 22 points scored against them. The Conference Championship games were quite similar.

So in simple terms, hold the opponent under 22 — you win. If the opponent scores anything above that, your chances aren’t so great. Give up 30 and the chances are very, very slim — although it has been done. But it’s typically an automatic L.

In the 7 playoff losses suffered during the Shula-Marino years, the Dolphins surrendered an average of 32.5 per game. Only one game was at 22 or under.

In the 3 playoff losses suffered during the Johnson-Marino years, the Dolphins surrendered 39. Only one game was at 22 or under.

So all 10 playoff losses, there were only 2 games where the opponent scored 22 or less.
The points surrendered in those other games: 27, 38, 31, 44, 29, 37, 38, 62

Yet the uneducated and clueless want to blame Marino. Go figure.

No other QB you can name would have drastically changed or overcame those outcomes.

Lastly, Marino’s numbers in the postseason reflect that of a QB that had to take more chances to keep pace or overcome deficits. Especially during the prime of his career, those deficits weren’t caused because Marino was throwing pick 6’s or performing poorly. The defense just couldn’t stop anybody and he had the ultimate pressure of keeping them in the game.

All things considered, he accomplished that about as well as any QB could. That’s the truth.

100%. A few post season games really stand out to me that emphasize your point. The ‘84 season SB. I’m not sure if SF ever punted. They just chewed the clock w long drives and we couldn’t get them off of the field. They would have had 45 points had we not stuffed Roger Craig trying to go airborne on 4th and goal from the 1 late in the game (wasn’t cool to go for a TD there IMO). Marino still threw for 330 yards (a then SB record) but w no defense and no running game it was hopeless. See Patrick Mahomes a couple of weeks ago. That’s what Dan looked like in that SB - except Pre QB-friendly rules, he was getting knocked on his arse w every throw. The ‘90 playoff game at Buffalo, down 20-3 and we come back on some great play from our QB. 4th and 1 at the Bills 47, Marino goes deep to Duper over the shoulder and over the CB / under the S down the sideline - a ball that traveled 50 or so in the air and set up a TD to pull us to 20-17 going into the half. We came all the way back but our D couldn’t get a stop and I believe we fumbled a KO return in the 4th as well. The Bills couldn’t stop Dan either. 44-34 shootout but our D was just worse than theirs that day (and almost every day during that era). Finally, take the ‘85 division round vs Cleveland. The Browns put up 2, 100+ rushers that day and as a team had near 300 on the ground. They led 20-3 at some point. W nothing to do but sit back and pass, and Cleveland knowing as much, Marino led 3 TD drives in a row late to pull out a game we didn’t deserve to win. That’s the truth as we were dominated at the LOS. Unfortunately, there would be no such miracle the next week in the title game as NE did the same thing to us w their run game. Yeah we weren’t good at stopping anyone in the playoffs since the Killer Bees of the very early 80’s. Damn shame.

 

[EJay]

Yeah we weren’t good at stopping anyone in the playoffs since the Killer Bees of the very early 80’s. Damn shame.

Even the 82-83 team that advanced to the SB had problems on defense. They were fortunate that it was a strike shortened season and only played 9 regular season games.

In the 13 total games they played including postseason, the defense allowed 137 rush yards per game and were completely exposed by Washington in the SB — who controlled the game with a ridiculous 276 yards on the ground.

 

[EJay]

Yeah we weren’t good at stopping anyone in the playoffs since the Killer Bees of the very early 80’s. Damn shame.

Here’s something I never thought about or considered until after my last reply to you where I brought up the 82-83 team.

Hypothetically, suppose Marino comes out and becomes a Dolphin a year sooner. Does MIA win the SB that season?

Interesting thing to ponder. He surely was a better QB than David Woodley.

Perhaps they don’t still make it to the big game. But judging by how quickly Marino ramped up as a rookie and how anemic Miami’s passing game was in that SB against WAS — I sure would have liked their chances better.

As things played out, I still think MIA would have won the big game in 84-85 had they faced any other team besides SF. Or had that been a year when the game was played with a only a week off instead of two — things might have played out differently.

Funny, but I didn’t recall until recently that MIA had beaten the 49ers the season before in SF with essentially the same team. It was Marino and Roger Craig’s rookie season. The game appeared on my youtube recommended list a few days ago.

As the the old sayings go, “any given Sunday” and “timing is everything”.

 

[royalshank]

Even the 82-83 team that advanced to the SB had problems on defense. They were fortunate that it was a strike shortened season and only played 9 regular season games.

In the 13 total games they played including postseason, the defense allowed 137 rush yards per game and were completely exposed by Washington in the SB — who controlled the game with a ridiculous 276 yards on the ground.

I think the ‘82 team had a really low PPG allowed and a lot of takeaways. Their issue was in the SB, the smaller D-line went against a much bigger o-line in the Hogs. That SB was a harbinger of what was to come as the NFC won 14 of the next 15 SBs - each team being bigger and more physical than the smaller, faster AFC opponent.

 

[royalshank]

Here’s something I never thought about or considered until after my last reply to you where I brought up the 82-83 team.

Hypothetically, suppose Marino comes out and becomes a Dolphin a year sooner. Does MIA win the SB that season?

Interesting thing to ponder. He surely was a better QB than David Woodley.

Perhaps they don’t still make it to the big game. But judging by how quickly Marino ramped up as a rookie and how anemic Miami’s passing game was in that SB against WAS — I sure would have liked their chances better.

As things played out, I still think MIA would have won the big game in 84-85 had they faced any other team besides SF. Or had that been a year when the game was played with a only a week off instead of two — things might have played out differently.

Funny, but I didn’t recall until recently that MIA had beaten the 49ers the season before in SF with essentially the same team. It was Marino and Roger Craig’s rookie season. The game appeared on my youtube recommended list a few days ago.

As the the old sayings go, “any given Sunday” and “timing is everything”.

Miami nearly won that SB vs the skins despite being manhandled on the LOS and Woodley not completing a single pass in the 2nd half. I think w Marino that is a much different game - Riggins probably doesn’t get to carry it 44 times either.

 

[Fin-Loco]

How has this thread not been moved to the trash bin yet?

 

[z926538]

Are we seriously trying to argue that not making the Super Bowl is a good thing? Perhaps it is the fact that the Dolphins have not been relevant in the league for the last twenty years, but this nothing but madness. If you have a chance to win a game that will put you into the Super Bowl you do everything you can to win it. And if you lose, you don't look back and try to argue that losing was a good thing. Madness, simply madness.

 

[Dolphins3]

Here’s something I never thought about or considered until after my last reply to you where I brought up the 82-83 team.

Hypothetically, suppose Marino comes out and becomes a Dolphin a year sooner. Does MIA win the SB that season?

Interesting thing to ponder. He surely was a better QB than David Woodley.

Perhaps they don’t still make it to the big game. But judging by how quickly Marino ramped up as a rookie and how anemic Miami’s passing game was in that SB against WAS — I sure would have liked their chances better.

As things played out, I still think MIA would have won the big game in 84-85 had they faced any other team besides SF. Or had that been a year when the game was played with a only a week off instead of two — things might have played out differently.

Funny, but I didn’t recall until recently that MIA had beaten the 49ers the season before in SF with essentially the same team. It was Marino and Roger Craig’s rookie season. The game appeared on my youtube recommended list a few days ago.

As the the old sayings go, “any given Sunday” and “timing is everything”.

Unfortunately, if Marino had come out for the 82 Draft, he would have never fallen to Miami (if you are looking at it in a vacuum, it is fun to speculate). He would have gone extremely high--perhaps no.1 overall (his junior season at Pitt was magnificent). He was the no. 1 overall pick of the USFL. I've always looked at it this way...Marino still comes out in the 83 draft. If they had gotten past Seattle and LA, they would have rematched the Redskins. Miami wins Super Bowl 18 going away. I know we are playing a game of "would've, should've, could've" but it sure is fun. :)

I also think it's fun to ponder what would have happened if the 49ers hadn't backed out of trade talks for picks and the draft rights to Elway in 1983. If I were the 49ers, I would have been ecstatic that Baltimore was sending me Elway in exchange for a couple picks and Montana (I would have been happy I didn't need to give up more). Elway would have won at least 6-8 Super Bowls. Montana would be remembered as a good QB on a bad team, but not a legend. The 49ers also would have sputtered Dallas's dynasty in the early 90's as they would have remained on top. Oh yeah, Steve Young would not have been a 49er either because Walsh would have had no reason to make the Young trade.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Here’s something I never thought about or considered until after my last reply to you where I brought up the 82-83 team.

Hypothetically, suppose Marino comes out and becomes a Dolphin a year sooner. Does MIA win the SB that season?

Interesting thing to ponder. He surely was a better QB than David Woodley.

Perhaps they don’t still make it to the big game. But judging by how quickly Marino ramped up as a rookie and how anemic Miami’s passing game was in that SB against WAS — I sure would have liked their chances better.

As things played out, I still think MIA would have won the big game in 84-85 had they faced any other team besides SF. Or had that been a year when the game was played with a only a week off instead of two — things might have played out differently.

Funny, but I didn’t recall until recently that MIA had beaten the 49ers the season before in SF with essentially the same team. It was Marino and Roger Craig’s rookie season. The game appeared on my youtube recommended list a few days ago.

As the the old sayings go, “any given Sunday” and “timing is everything”.

Not only would Miami had defeated Washington with Marino, I think the Dolphins would have won if Shula went to Strock earlier.