'85 Dolphins dodged a bullet by not making Superbowl.

[royalshank]

He was considered an ascending talent, but that super bowl really killed his career.

Agreed

 

[royalshank]

Your recollection isn’t far off. They were a good defense that made lots of impactful plays. They were a tough matchup for many offenses. However physical teams often gave that defense problems. As became the norm for the defense during the Marino era, where those defenses not only regularly got whipped physically but also couldn’t deal with speed.

BTW, the ppg that season was 14.2 and pass yards average was around 120. A tad misleading since teams didn’t sling it like they do now, and also because the rush defense wasn’t great. Games and plays were drastically shortened due to all the running and ball control.

Regardless, good defense. Aging, but still good. Just susceptible against physical teams.

Thanks for that. That era (Marino in his prime) was maddening to watch our defense not be able to get a stop and to your point, part of it was how slow the front 7 players were. Lumbering LBs who couldn’t cover backs in the flats etc.

 

[GreenDolphinSt]

100%. A few post season games really stand out to me that emphasize your point. The ‘84 season SB. I’m not sure if SF ever punted. They just chewed the clock w long drives and we couldn’t get them off of the field. They would have had 45 points had we not stuffed Roger Craig trying to go airborne on 4th and goal from the 1 late in the game (wasn’t cool to go for a TD there IMO). Marino still threw for 330 yards (a then SB record) but w no defense and no running game it was hopeless. See Patrick Mahomes a couple of weeks ago. That’s what Dan looked like in that SB - except Pre QB-friendly rules, he was getting knocked on his arse w every throw. The ‘90 playoff game at Buffalo, down 20-3 and we come back on some great play from our QB. 4th and 1 at the Bills 47, Marino goes deep to Duper over the shoulder and over the CB / under the S down the sideline - a ball that traveled 50 or so in the air and set up a TD to pull us to 20-17 going into the half. We came all the way back but our D couldn’t get a stop and I believe we fumbled a KO return in the 4th as well. The Bills couldn’t stop Dan either. 44-34 shootout but our D was just worse than theirs that day (and almost every day during that era). Finally, take the ‘85 division round vs Cleveland. The Browns put up 2, 100+ rushers that day and as a team had near 300 on the ground. They led 20-3 at some point. W nothing to do but sit back and pass, and Cleveland knowing as much, Marino led 3 TD drives in a row late to pull out a game we didn’t deserve to win. That’s the truth as we were dominated at the LOS. Unfortunately, there would be no such miracle the next week in the title game as NE did the same thing to us w their run game. Yeah we weren’t good at stopping anyone in the playoffs since the Killer Bees of the very early 80’s. Damn shame.

Yes to all, absolutely. The '84 Niners team was voted the best all time in 2000, and while there are other contenders, it's clearly one of the best. I think the '84 Dolphins were better than most Super Bowl winning teams in history.

And Marino's rookie team, with a remnant of the Killer Bees D might have been his best chance at a SB win, but multiple 4th quarter fumbles on kickoffs vs Seattle ended that.

 

[royalshank]

Yes to all, absolutely. The '84 Niners team was voted the best all time in 2000, and while there are other contenders, it's clearly one of the best. I think the '84 Dolphins were better than most Super Bowl winning teams in history.

And Marino's rookie team, with a remnant of the Killer Bees D might have been his best chance at a SB win, but multiple 4th quarter fumbles on kickoffs vs Seattle ended that.

Fulton Walker - hero in the ‘82 SB was the goat in that Seattle game. Back to back fumbles at the end. First one we were down by 4. He fumbled, we held to 3. Now down by 7 we’re saying “ok we’ll tie this up” but alas, another fumble. Dan never got on the field once we went down by 4.

 

[bane]

Fulton Walker - hero in the ‘82 SB was the goat in that Seattle game. Back to back fumbles at the end. First one we were down by 4. He fumbled, we held to 3. Now down by 7 we’re saying “ok we’ll tie this up” but alas, another fumble. Dan never got on the field once we went down by 4.

That was a year before I became fan. But that is awful way to lose.

 

[bane]

I just remember being a a fan starting in 84. By 85 our defense was awful. Finally in 1990 it was decent. How could Shula waste those prime years?

 

[EJay]

Thanks for that. That era (Marino in his prime) was maddening to watch our defense not be able to get a stop and to your point, part of it was how slow the front 7 players were. Lumbering LBs who couldn’t cover backs in the flats etc.

One name: Thurman Thomas

It was beyond maddening to see him, and even his backup Kenneth Davis, do anything they wanted on the simplest of screen passes.

I still have nightmares about it. Some of most horrific defense ever played in this franchises history.

 

[Dolphins3]

I get that. That’s why I said “hypothetically“.

Just for a minute or two, imagine that he was in MIA a year sooner and available to the Dolphins in that SB.

Yes, I agree they would have won Super Bowl 17 with Marino.

 

[Dolphins3]

I just remember being a a fan starting in 84. By 85 our defense was awful. Finally in 1990 it was decent. How could Shula waste those prime years.

I just remember being a a fan starting in 84. By 85 our defense was awful. Finally in 1990 it was decent. How could Shula waste those prime years?

When Marino arrived in 1983, he was the second best player on the team (after Stephenson). By the middle/end of his rookie season, he was the best player on the team. From 1984-1986, he was the best offensive player in the NFL (you could argue he was the best player in the NFL, but I think LT was probably the best player in the League). He remained very near the top until 1995, when he began getting hit with injuries (he recovered nicely from the 1993 achilles injury, but then other issue set in). That whole time, he never had a very good/let alone great defense. The defensive unit was respectable in 1990, but not awesome. The Killer B's unit was in decline when he arrived in 1983 and the defense wa snever solid again until 1998, by which time the offense was in a total rebuild.

 

[Dolphins3]

One name: Thurman Thomas

It was beyond maddening to see him, and even his backup Kenneth Davis, do anything they wanted on the simplest of screen passes.

I still have nightmares about it. Some of most horrific defense ever played in this franchises history.

You are 100% correct. Hank Goldberg said the reason the 1984 team didn't win was mostly because the Dolphins linebackers couldn't contain Roger Craig (Montana also rushed for 50+ yards that game). In 1985, the Dolphins had one of the worst (perhaps the worst) rush defense in the NFL. This goes back to the hypothetical SB 20 re-match with Chicago. Miami hangs in that game (and maybe even wins) if Ditka and Ryan's egos get the best of them (Buddy staying in a 46 and Ditka not choosing to run until late). In the book Monsters, it says Ditka didn't even want to run late in the MNF game because Chicago trailed . McMahon kept calling running plays (after he was put in the game) to get Payton 100 yards (he was chasing a single season record for 100 yard games and had a consecutive games streak going). Ditka chastised McMahon for making audibles to the run. McMahon told him the game was already out of reach and they should look to get Walter his record. Ditka finally acquiesced. It was odd that the Bears started off passing so much early in the MNF game with Fuller at QB.

I've always defended Miami for a SB 20 rematch because Marino nullified the blitz better than any QB before or since. Also, the game was played on turf, making the Dolphins receivers more dangerous. In the MNF game, a lot of things went against the Bears with the deflected pass of Dan Hampton's helmet. The Bears also played without McMahon, plus the aforementioned stubborness of Buddy Ryan and Mike Ditka. Perhaps SB 20 would have been way different, but I sure do like Miami's chances.

 

[royalshank]

One name: Thurman Thomas

It was beyond maddening to see him, and even his backup Kenneth Davis, do anything they wanted on the simplest of screen passes.

I still have nightmares about it. Some of most horrific defense ever played in this franchises history.

Every 3rd down they would get 1 more yard than necessary- every time.

 

[royalshank]

When Marino arrived in 1983, he was the second best player on the team (after Stephenson). By the middle/end of his rookie season, he was the best player on the team. From 1984-1986, he was the best offensive player in the NFL (you could argue he was the best player in the NFL, but I think LT was probably the best player in the League). He remained very near the top until 1995, when he began getting hit with injuries (he recovered nicely from the 1993 achilles injury, but then other issue set in). That whole time, he never had a very good/let alone great defense. The defensive unit was respectable in 1990, but not awesome. The Killer B's unit was in decline when he arrived in 1983 and the defense wa snever solid again until 1998, by which time the offense was in a total rebuild.

And in the 80’s the horrible drafting of D players never helped close the gap left by the aging / retiring killer bees.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

And in the 80’s the horrible drafting of D players never helped close the gap left by the aging / retiring killer bees.

The fact is, it was going to take a herculean effort for any AFC teams to win a super bowl during that time period. The NFC was loaded, especially on the defensive side. Teams like the Giants, Bears and 49ers were better than the best AFC offerings of Denver, Miami, Buffalo and Cleveland. Buffalo's defense couldn't even compare to those teams and it was one of the better units in the AFC.

Miami's drafts compounded the issue. Players like John Bosa, Kumerow etc. were big first round misses. The sudden deaths of Larry Gordon and David Overstreet hurt as well. Of course, there wasn't free agency so the draft was where it was at.

But Marino was certainly capable of carrying a team better than any quarterback around back then. He gave Miami a chance, even against the odds.

 

[Namor]

in the early 80's ,we also lost Rusty Chambers,Larry Gordon and David Overstreet to early deaths.....before free agency...you could not make up for loses like that....add in some bad drafts...well..you know how the story went..

 

[royalshank]

in the early 80's ,we also lost Rusty Chambers,Larry Gordon and David Overstreet to early deaths.....before free agency...you could not make up for loses like that....add in some bad drafts...well..you know how the story went..

Chambers and Gordon were terrific. Gordon was so athletic / had game changing abilities and Gordon was a thumper. We tried to replace the tandem w Jackie Shipp and Jay Brophy and we whiffed huge.