A Griese thread that may get me in trouble

[Muck]

Originally posted by Barbarian
True enough, but the problems were alot deeper than that that year, about that same time our O-Line started having issues and the number of pressures and sacks increased dramatically. Jays performance did slip a bit, and some of it was due to his injury, but there were many other factors... and let's not forget this is the first time he was actually a starter, so he wasn't used to playing 16 games. Besides, looking at our Backup at the time, I would have rather had Feidler at not quite 80%

Not true. The '00 OL was better than it had been in years. Todd Wade looked like a world-beater that year, playing 16 games, and has yet to equal it. Kevin Donnalley started all 16 and played very well. Ruddy played all 16 and made the Pro Bowl. Dixon was solid in 15 games. And Richmond Webb played nicely in 14. In his absence, Brent Smith also played very well. We also had a running game for the first time in forever, as Lamar Smith broke out.

Jay hurt that shoulder in that monsoon against Tampa....the league's most ferocious DL. The OL simply couldn't beat them that day. But regardless, we had one of the league's better units that year. We just didn't have much at WR. You're probably thinking of the 20001 season. :)

And I agree. Being his first year starting in his 7th system in 7 years, it was tough.

Well... he was doing pretty damned good with that messed up hip and the torn finger ligiments. In fact with those injuries people were talking probowl considering how good he was playing, so you can't knock those, they sure werent hurting his performance.

The hip injury occured in like June. It was healed by time the season started. He just missed a lot of training camp (which was very important). The fore finger injury early against the Jets. True, he played very well with it. But to say they didn't affect him is negligent. Against NY, Ricky ran wild. So there wasn't a big need for Jay to shoulder the load.

But next week against KC, that finger played a big role. After falling behind, we were forced to get on Jay's arm. Jay had over 300 yards, but he was way off when he tried to throw deep. 3 of his INTs came deep. And the spiral was gone.

Sorry, but I don't see him getting hurt more often... other QB's get dings and dents just as often as Jay, and considering how physical Jay plays it's a testiment to his durability and toughness that he's able to keep performing at such a high level.

Sure, there are QBs who get hurt as often or more as Jay. But Jay does get his fair share. And Jay's injuries are usually not just nicks or dents. They're usually pretty serious and require surgery.

He's a tough mofo and I like him. We were kicking *** with him last year. I'm just not sure that he'll ever be able to throw the ball as accurately as he did before that thumb injury. I don't see the tight spiral anymore. More passes seem to get away from him. I just hope he recovers and gets it all back.

 

[M-REAL]

Mike, i have to agree with you to and add that with all of the newly acquired dolphin players waiting in the background, competition for the starters is going to be at its peak. Everyone's going to be pushed to play at their very best to not be replaced, even if it's only temperary(one game, one play, etc.) The sense of urgency and anxiety is too great for this team to waste time deciding who wants to play at the level they know that they have to play at. Jinxes, hexes, blizzards, whatever, just win games every game. As far as Fielder getting hurt often, I think he solved some of his problem by bulking up. He looks like he gained 15 or 20 pounds already. This will help break tackles and hopefully stay healthier.

 

[DOLFANMIKE]

Originally posted by marcusreal
Mike, i have to agree with you to and add that with all of the newly acquired dolphin players waiting in the background, competition for the starters is going to be at its peak. Everyone's going to be pushed to play at their very best to not be replaced, even if it's only temperary(one game, one play, etc.) The sense of urgency and anxiety is too great for this team to waste time deciding who wants to play at the level they know that they have to play at. Jinxes, hexes, blizzards, whatever, just win games every game. As far as Fielder getting hurt often, I think he solved some of his problem by bulking up. He looks like he gained 15 or 20 pounds already. This will help break tackles and hopefully stay healthier.

I hope you're right!

 

[Va.fin fan]

this whole injury thing and he gets injured often and he should go if he has another injury. is just plain silly i guess alanta should go ahead and get rid of vick, my god he missed some games due to injuries in his 1st yr as a starter. at that position you are gonna have injuries and you have to play injured sometimes look back at all the nfl teams last yr and almost every team had a starting qb who was hurt and missed games or played hurt. for that fact it has been a trend the last 5yrs it seems more and more qbs are going down with injuries, that is why its key to have solid proven back ups something that we didnt have last yr. if griese impresses you fine , im glad we have him to , but please give that old fiedler gets injured to often crap a rest. i think the fins are going into this season with two good qbs and that can only be a positive for dolphin fans. peace

 

[DOLFANMIKE]

Originally posted by Va.fin fan
this whole injury thing and he gets injured often and he should go if he has another injury. is just plain silly i guess alanta should go ahead and get rid of vick, my god he missed some games due to injuries in his 1st yr as a starter. at that position you are gonna have injuries and you have to play injured sometimes look back at all the nfl teams last yr and almost every team had a starting qb who was hurt and missed games or played hurt. for that fact it has been a trend the last 5yrs it seems more and more qbs are going down with injuries, that is why its key to have solid proven back ups something that we didnt have last yr. if griese impresses you fine , im glad we have him to , but please give that old fiedler gets injured to often crap a rest. i think the fins are going into this season with two good qbs and that can only be a positive for dolphin fans. peace

Funny thing is I started this entire thread, and I agree with everything you have to say.....EXCEPT......I can't understand for the life of me taking the stance that Fiedler hasnt had a ton of injuries that have effected both his play and the Dolphins as an Offensive unit. Don't get me wrong, I'll have no problem with Jay starting this year, as I fully expect him to. However, in season 1 he missed almost the entire summer (preseason games) and missed some time in the regular season with hip injuries, a elbow injury, a shoulder injury. Thats is why (IMO) his QB rating went up and down so drastically from game to game in his first year. In his second year (his healthiest season with us) he had a finger injury and something else (Back? Shoulder? , neck?) and then last year of course he missed several games and it cost us in a big way because Ray didnt get it done.

On another board a Dolfan friend put it like this...neither Griese or Fiedler have shown the ability to play all season injury free (or play without losing something on the field) so far in their career as a starter....so perhaps this year they can compliment each other by playing well when healthy and letting the other guy take care of business when they are not healthy.
That said, I expect to see Jay start, but if he is injured I expect to see Griese in there much sooner than Ray Lucas would have been picking up the slack letting Jay recover. What happens after that depends on how they both played, but odds are it'll be Jays job again....IMO

 

[Surferosa]

Another great thread. I am not really worried about Griese's leadership qualities, though I am concerned about his lack of mobility. In my opinion, thats the biggest factor that seperates Jay from Brian.

Heres my breakdown: I think Brian has a stronger arm and is more accurate; Jays more of a leader and is more mobile in the pocket (see the first Pats game last year).

 

[DOLFANMIKE]

Originally posted by Surferosa
Another great thread. I am not really worried about Griese's leadership qualities, though I am concerned about his lack of mobility. In my opinion, thats the biggest factor that seperates Jay from Brian.

Heres my breakdown: I think Brian has a stronger arm and is more accurate; Jays more of a leader and is more mobile in the pocket (see the first Pats game last year).

I agree...one thing i did notice in the Denver game was that we had heat on Griese from start to finish, and we did sack him and pressure him alot....but he also showed the ability to escape and even scrambled for a 11 yard run on a big drive for them. I think he's got a little slippery to him that he doesnt get credit for. He flat out escaped an open sack attempt by Taylor and slipped by Zach and was later sacked by Taylor another time. By I did count three times he should have been sacked and was not in the game.

 

[minus]

Originally posted by Surferosa
Another great thread. I am not really worried about Griese's leadership qualities, though I am concerned about his lack of mobility. In my opinion, thats the biggest factor that seperates Jay from Brian.

Heres my breakdown: I think Brian has a stronger arm and is more accurate; Jays more of a leader and is more mobile in the pocket (see the first Pats game last year).

Stronger Arm ? Nope (Jay has stronger Arm)..........More accurate? I can agree with that but all other intangibles is Fiedler by far.I don't see Griese other than 1 year backup and hopefully Fiedler can remain healthy.I'm not up for another year that backup QB ruins it for the Fins even if it is Griese.

 

[DOLFANMIKE]

Originally posted by minus


Stronger Arm ? Nope (Jay has stronger Arm)..........More accurate? I can agree with that but all other intangibles is Fiedler by far.I don't see Griese other than 1 year backup and hopefully Fiedler can remain healthy.I'm not up for another year that backup QB ruins it for the Fins even if it is Griese.

I'd like to see a stat that demonstrates who has connected on more deep balls over the past 3 seasons. I have a feeling it's Griese, and that it's not even close. I say that because it seems like ESPN was always showing Bronco's Bombs for TD's. Anyhow, I think their arm strength is close enough to where regardless of who has the better arm it's close enough to not be any real edge.
The things I like about Jay over Brian are - Leadership, toughness, run ability, and he's more familiar with our scheme.
The things I like better about Brian over Jay are - His play action pass is one of leagues best, his short and middle passes are usually thrown perfectly so that the RB/TE/WR don't have to slow down a step to catch them. They get balls thrown perfectly in stride. I think Brian is more accurate in general.....but that may not be accurate as I'm basing that on having seen Brian only play healthy, and i've seen ever game Jay has ever played in as a Fin....both healthy and injured.

 

[Va.fin fan]

Originally posted by DOLFANMIKE


Funny thing is I started this entire thread, and I agree with everything you have to say.....EXCEPT......I can't understand for the life of me taking the stance that Fiedler hasnt had a ton of injuries that have effected both his play and the Dolphins as an Offensive unit. Don't get me wrong, I'll have no problem with Jay starting this year, as I fully expect him to. However, in season 1 he missed almost the entire summer (preseason games) and missed some time in the regular season with hip injuries, a elbow injury, a shoulder injury. Thats is why (IMO) his QB rating went up and down so drastically from game to game in his first year. In his second year (his healthiest season with us) he had a finger injury and something else (Back? Shoulder? , neck?) and then last year of course he missed several games and it cost us in a big way because Ray didnt get it done.

On another board a Dolfan friend put it like this...neither Griese or Fiedler have shown the ability to play all season injury free (or play without losing something on the field) so far in their career as a starter....so perhaps this year they can compliment each other by playing well when healthy and letting the other guy take care of business when they are not healthy.
That said, I expect to see Jay start, but if he is injured I expect to see Griese in there much sooner than Ray Lucas would have been picking up the slack letting Jay recover. What happens after that depends on how they both played, but odds are it'll be Jays job again....IMO

hey bro, i was only trying to point out by the silly comment that this is not a just a fiedler problem, i hope my post didnt sound as trying to deny that fiedler has had injuries if it did sorry. but i will point out hey if you or others will write post jay should go if he gets injured is absurd with that logic present qb's like vick, warner,culpepper ,mcnair, these guys should be let go because every yr they were injured and missed games or played hurt, past qb's like montana,aikman, kelly,marino,young, i can go on and on but thats not necessary. imo jay should start he's done nothing but put up alot of wins vs. losses and the team respects him, he's been nothing but a class act since he's been here. but with that said i am a dolphin fan .and i dont care who's the qb is it can be griese,fiedler or joe doodoo the ragman. come sunday just get the job done. i think we have two good qb's and we should all be able to rest better knowing if one or the other goes down the off. can still be productive. peace bro.

 

[minus]

Originally posted by DOLFANMIKE


I'd like to see a stat that demonstrates who has connected on more deep balls over the past 3 seasons. I have a feeling it's Griese, and that it's not even close. I say that because it seems like ESPN was always showing Bronco's Bombs for TD's. Anyhow, I think their arm strength is close enough to where regardless of who has the better arm it's close enough to not be any real edge.
The things I like about Jay over Brian are - Leadership, toughness, run ability, and he's more familiar with our scheme.
The things I like better about Brian over Jay are - His play action pass is one of leagues best, his short and middle passes are usually thrown perfectly so that the RB/TE/WR don't have to slow down a step to catch them. They get balls thrown perfectly in stride. I think Brian is more accurate in general.....but that may not be accurate as I'm basing that on having seen Brian only play healthy, and i've seen ever game Jay has ever played in as a Fin....both healthy and injured.

'

Connecting on deep balls doesn't mean stronger arm.It has alot to do with timing and Wr having seperation.Fiedler Has a stronger arm than Griese but is not like Fiedler has cannon either.

 

[Va.fin fan]

and i should add the 1st yr when he missed all summer, he only went 11-5 and the next season with his two bum shoulders yep 11-5 again last yr was on a roll when he went down the def. lost the kc game and he sure didn't lose the last two games poor play by chambers mcmicles,carter,st and defence lost those games. yeah i know if i give him credit for the wins i should count him in on those losses. but can you not say he had us primed for the win only to watch other players blow the game with poor play.

 

[relive1972]

Originally posted by DOLFANMIKE


I'd like to see a stat that demonstrates who has connected on more deep balls over the past 3 seasons. I have a feeling it's Griese, and that it's not even close.

You're right, it's not even close, but you're wrong, Griese's not the one who's better on the long ball. Over the past 3 seasons, Fiedler has completed 19 passes where the attempt was more than 31yds. Griese only completed 8 in that same 3 year span.

Check out these stats, scroll down to passing profile and look at the attempts for 31-40 and 41+yds. Then click on 2001, and 2000, then do the same for Fiedler and see for yourself:

http://snap.stats.com/snap/pfw/nfl/playerstats.asp?id=4322&Submit=Go

 

[DOLFANMIKE]

Originally posted by relive1972


You're right, it's not even close, but you're wrong, Griese's not the one who's better on the long ball. Over the past 3 seasons, Fiedler has completed 19 passes where the attempt was more than 31yds. Griese only completed 8 in that same 3 year span.

Check out these stats, scroll down to passing profile and look at the attempts for 31-40 and 41+yds. Then click on 2001, and 2000, then do the same for Fiedler and see for yourself:

http://snap.stats.com/snap/pfw/nfl/playerstats.asp?id=4322&Submit=Go

Wow! I am surprised. Nice Job!