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A message for all of you who claim Carey plugs our only hole

FinfanInBuffalo said:
Are you saying that there are NO player evaluations that had Carey ranked ahead of Wilfork?

I'm saying that the majority of the ones I have seen had Wilfork ahead and that it seems unreasonable to assert that Carey is the better player unless there is additional information. I find it notable that nobody so far has actually asked Rick about it, and Rick has not offered that he had Carey ahead of Wilfork in rating without regard to position. The very fact that he was so focused on OL to me suggests that he violated the value drafting dogma.
 
Jimmy James said:
I submit that what you see as arrogance is actually me being very defensive. I started this very thread because at the time, anybody who didn't sing the praises of this choice was getting branded some traitor to the Dolphins. I did what I thought best to make my point, and I kept taking shots. That's why my tone here is far more ascerbic than it is on pretty much every other thread.

Fair enough. Sometimes the extreme negativity by some on this board makes me too touchy.

BTW, your opinion that Wilfork will be the better pro is not far fetched. I was only reacting to what seemed to be your position that Carey being the better pro was impossible and that you seemed to imply that you knew that the Fins had Wilfork higher and went against their draft board for need.
 
Jimmy James said:
I'm saying that the majority of the ones I have seen had Wilfork ahead and that it seems unreasonable to assert that Carey is the better player unless there is additional information. I find it notable that nobody so far has actually asked Rick about it, and Rick has not offered that he had Carey ahead of Wilfork in rating without regard to position. The very fact that he was so focused on OL to me suggests that he violated the value drafting dogma.

This is where we just have to admit that there is not enough evidence to go on. The fact that at least some rankings had Carey ahead proves that it possible that the Fins had them ranked the same way.
 
I apoligize if we do not win the superbowl.Of coarse that and a quarter might get ya a cup of coffee. Dolfanreal69
 
For Crying Out Loud....

We can all agree that OL was our biggest need. Not QB, not WR..RB...DB..LB...CB..S..and so on. OL. Vernon Carey was the BPA at a position that was our biggest need. All this talk about apologies..and stuff..really is a little overkill. As a dolfan since 1980..nobody has had their heartbroken more than me. Every year I proclaim ..this is the year...only to see it vanish in December. But lets be real...we are fans and thats it. How can ya'll get so worked up over who got drafted and who didnt. Granted..maybe I am in a better than average mood since my Red Sox..just swept the evil empire under the rug...but still. It looks like Poole was a good pickup..and I cant wait to see Bua put on the pads and start hitting. I think Cote from the Herald summed it up...none of us can really put a grade on this draft. It could end up an A..or it could end up an F. Lets just leave it at that..and get on with life. One of these years..our team will get it right in December...this year looks good so far. Keep an open mind.
 
VT,

I do keep an open mind, and I do celebrate my Red Sox (as well) getting the broom out for the hated Yanks. Why is it that so many Dolphins fans are also Red Sox fans?

What you're missing here is that there is a relatively respected school of thought that I subscribe to that says you don't consider the draft at all for need filling. The draft is about keeping your team strong for the future, so you have to take the best guy. That is what the Patriots did at #21 with Wilfork, and it's just a crying shame that that also happened to be a need for them. That's the recent luck of the Patriots, though.
 
Jimmy, You are confusing points in your posts...The bottom line is that OL WAS the biggest need on this team and the 3rd best tackle prospect (by most professional publications, although I dissagreed) was available when we picked (the other two players were already gone). We had 2 other players on our targets as well that were gone. The FO did what was best for the team and took the BPA in a position we needed. It makes no sense for ANY GM to take the pure BPA when drafting after the top 5 or 10....even those teams, (Giants, SD, Raiders, Washington, etc) all took BPA, that corresponded to a need. The only one, IMO that took their BPA that didn't correspond to their direst need is the Cardinals, but that was more of a gut move on Denny's part....which is the guys perogative. When you are not in the top tier of the players available, then you take for BPA in your need areas. As someone else indicated....Jackson was the true BPA at 19 (according to the draft gurus), why would we take him, and if RS had you would be the first to condemn him...(I would have too).

Carey may not be a pro bowler this year, but we would have looked pretty silly, following your guidelines with RW and SJ and still a hole in the OL.....BTW, the other thing that you have to keep in mind is that RSs board and S. Pioli's (for example) board probably looked a lot different. The Fins had Carey ranked higher because we were looking at him as a tackle....He played tackle position much better than guard (for a variety of reasons). The Pats wanted him as a guard and he probably was the best "guard" in the draft.

There is too much cynicism in your remarks about something that you (and I) knew too little about as far as details between the different teams draft rooms to decide that Wilfork was the BPA and the Fins were "dumb" to not draft him...Personally, I think Philly is the team that is "dumb". Andrews was not the BPA at #16 nor was he their greatest need position.
 
Larry,

Don't tell me what I would do if we took Jackson. :fire: The fact is that I would be just fine with that pick, though I think it was a real question as to whether he or Wilfork was BPA at that moment. I focus on Wilfork because we're talking about a team in Miami and there are lots of Hurricane fans here.

Do you know how many times Ricky rushes each year with us? Do you really think the offense would be close to the same with Minor or Henry? The Jackson pick is another great example of why strict BPA is what you have to do in this league.

By your logic, we also shouldn't have taken Poole because we have a strong secondary. If BPA isn't the rule after the first 5 or 10, why would it be later in the draft? :rolleyes:

I'm not convinced that we had a hole in the OL before the draft. Look at the guys we brought in and the guys we drafted on day 2, and tell me we couldn't use St. Clair as a T and that one of about five guys we have in for RG wouldn't work out. Even if we did have a hole in the judgment of the team, free agency is where you fill holes.

It's funny that you bring up Philly. I am not an Eagles fan, but I'm a huge fan of their FO. They have been so smart for so long that I am willing to accept their judgment there. RS is in a "show me" position for at least a couple of years, and he didn't show me anything with that first pick that I wanted to see. He did do much better in the rest of the draft, though. Like I have said elsewhere, I'm not calling for his head. I just hope for better from now on.
 
Jimmy James said:
I do not believe in drafting for need.

Thanks for stating this up front so that I didn't have to read the last six pages of the thread. If you are committed to BPA regardless of need, there is no point in debating this pick.
 
Jimmy James said:
If BPA isn't the rule after the first 5 or 10, why would it be later in the draft?

Because first round picks are for players a team projects (and needs) to start right away. Later round picks are about getting value. Poole was an incredible steal in round 4.
 
Jimmy James said:
If you do what I described, you need to get with the program and learn a little thing called netiquette. I know not to expect Joe Sixpack to have manners, but I do expect better from my fellow Dolphins fans because I like to think we're a cut above.

If you're offended, look to your own behavior first.

oh, well excuse me, MR. Finheaven CEO !!! I didn't realize that you make the rules of how ppl are supposed to read and respond. Get over yourself already, ok?! netiquette, you say? Sure, you really showed that to a T, yup!!

:rolleyes:
 
Jimmy James said:
I stated that it was my opinion, and I have evidence in the form of lots of player evaluations with Wilfork over Carey to support my opinion. By suggesting that this is arrogance, you're calling almost every person on this board arrogant. We question FO, coaching, and player decisions here all the time. Do you not plan to do this, or are you being patently hypocritical just because it suits you?


Jimmy, if you have such evidence, then why not just post it up and share it with everone. That should clear up alot of confusion and ill will, unless you're just thriving on it, I don't know!
 
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