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AFC East breakdown

I don't get how you say that you go with NE's running backs because they are proven, but you say Dillon is banged up and that Maroney is very good. Well correct me if I'm wrong, but Maroney isn't exactlly proven. The other position I disagree with, is TE. McMichael is one of the top 8 tight ends in the league and although Ben Watson will be great, he is not at McMike's level yet. Other than that, pretty good.
 
BuffaloSoldier2 said:
You could argue that Dillion is one of the best backs in football and had a bad season, ala Culpepper. Dillion was money in 2004 and was a stud on crappy football teams in Cincy. Adding a first round pick is either great insurance or a nice replacement. On paper, Dillion is one of the most accomplished backs in football and a Dillion-Maroney combo is pretty impressive.

And I don't wanna diss Zach. I have a lot of respect for him. But the rest of the LBs are young. Additionally, this is a really good division for LBs. Spikes-Fletcher-Crowell and Bruschi-Vrabel-Colvin-Beiel ? are some of the top cores in the NFL. But let's agree to disagree. :wink:
O-tay.....agreed!
 
All right, I did this last year and am killing some time before I get nice before the Sabres game. :wink: Obviously, there are still some question marks but it's always interesting to see a breakdown and get some opinions.

Quarterbacks
NE 4
NYJ 3
BUF 2
MIA 1

If anyone argues against Brady, they are ******ed period. I was very tempted to put Losman ahead of Chadwick because he statistically had the edge in head to head games and for the season, but Chad is a playoff QB. As for the Fins, Green, C-pep, Lemon, Beck, Grape, or Orange, they are the bottom of this group until proven otherwise.

Running Backs
NYJ 4
MIA 3
NE 2
BUF 1

Very tough. I gave the edge to the Jets because Jones is a good pickup and has had slightly more productive seasons than Brown (while sharing the carries). Washington and him are a solid duo. Brown would be up there but injuries are always a concern. Maroney is a best but like Brown, has never had to carry the load by himself. Personally, I think Lynch will be offensive rookie of the year but I will be realistic (unlike Fin fans :wink: ).

Wide Receivers
NE 4
NYJ 3
BUF 2
MIA 1

NE went from one of the worst receiving cores to the best. Scary talent on a team with Brady throwing to them. Nasty. Crotchey and Coles turned out to be a very productive combo. Evans is the best wr in the division and in the top 10 of the league. If our #2 was better, he would be even better. Chambers was a huge bust, who has shown that besides one last season run, he slightly above average who makes sick catches. Ginn has to prove it like Lynch.

Tight Ends
NE 4
BUF 3
NYJ 2
MIA 1

Probably the least talented position in the division. NE with Watson & Brady (he sucks but is a good blocker) is pretty solid. Royal really started to come on last year (3 games in a row with a td, one against some team with the Piano man starting) and is a great blocker. Baker is a good receiving te. And honestly, I'm not really even sure who MIA's TE is. But at leat you got rid of a pregnant pass dropping wife beater. That's an improvement I guess. :wink:

Offensive Line
NE 4
BUF 3
NYJ 2
MIA 1

NE has a very unrated group. BUF & the Jets was close. But even if the Bills overspent a little bit, Dockery is a good young guard who will help from one of the best left sides in football. NYJ have the foundation of a very good oline for years to come, but Brick struggled at times. MIA's line isn't vey good right now. Hopefully for you guys, the draft picks will pan out.

Defensive Line
NE 4
MIA 3
BUF 2
NYJ 1

I kept this the same from last year. NE has one of the best d-lines in football. MIA took some losses but anytime you have Taylor, you have a really good d-line. Buf has a very underrated d-line with Schobel and Denney/Kelsay. The Jets aren't bad, but this is a pretty good group in the division.

Linebackers
MIA 4
NE 3
NYJ 2
BUF 1

Tough one. I respect Thomas but I think him and Crowder are overrted. But they still are the foundation of a really good defense. NE is getting really old at LB but Thomas is a huge pickup. The Jets got run over by pretty much everyone but getting harris is a solid move. The Bills LBs are very young.

Secondary
NE 4
NYJ 3
BUF 2
MIA 1

Close one. NE, assuming Samuel plays, are the class. The Jets added a 1st round cb and Rhodes is a playmaker. Buf has the best safties in the division but our corners are questionable. MIA has question marks all over their secondary.

Special Teams
BUF 4
NYJ 3
MIA 2
NE 1

Buf is one of the league's best on special teams for the last 5 years. Jets have a great returner and their kicker is getting better. Mia's rating totally depends on Ginn. NE's only major question mark.


Obviously, this isn't an exact science but these are my final scores:
NE 30
NYJ 23
BUF 20
MIA 17

What do you think???
 
Miami = Worst in AFC East? A complete shock :rolleyes2

Anyway good work on taking the time for this. I'm sure it'll create more arguements then anything else but whatever. That's what this site has come down to nowadays it seems
 
All right, I did this last year and am killing some time before I get nice before the Sabres game. :wink: Obviously, there are still some question marks but it's always interesting to see a breakdown and get some opinions.

Quarterbacks
NE 4
NYJ 3
BUF 2
MIA 1

If anyone argues against Brady, they are ******ed period. I was very tempted to put Losman ahead of Chadwick because he statistically had the edge in head to head games and for the season, but Chad is a playoff QB. As for the Fins, Green, C-pep, Lemon, Beck, Grape, or Orange, they are the bottom of this group until proven otherwise.

Running Backs
NYJ 4
MIA 3
NE 2
BUF 1

Very tough. I gave the edge to the Jets because Jones is a good pickup and has had slightly more productive seasons than Brown (while sharing the carries). Washington and him are a solid duo. Brown would be up there but injuries are always a concern. Maroney is a best but like Brown, has never had to carry the load by himself. Personally, I think Lynch will be offensive rookie of the year but I will be realistic (unlike Fin fans :wink: ).

Wide Receivers
NE 4
NYJ 3
BUF 2
MIA 1

NE went from one of the worst receiving cores to the best. Scary talent on a team with Brady throwing to them. Nasty. Crotchey and Coles turned out to be a very productive combo. Evans is the best wr in the division and in the top 10 of the league. If our #2 was better, he would be even better. Chambers was a huge bust, who has shown that besides one last season run, he slightly above average who makes sick catches. Ginn has to prove it like Lynch.

Tight Ends
NE 4
BUF 3
NYJ 2
MIA 1

Probably the least talented position in the division. NE with Watson & Brady (he sucks but is a good blocker) is pretty solid. Royal really started to come on last year (3 games in a row with a td, one against some team with the Piano man starting) and is a great blocker. Baker is a good receiving te. And honestly, I'm not really even sure who MIA's TE is. But at leat you got rid of a pregnant pass dropping wife beater. That's an improvement I guess. :wink:

Offensive Line
NE 4
BUF 3
NYJ 2
MIA 1

NE has a very unrated group. BUF & the Jets was close. But even if the Bills overspent a little bit, Dockery is a good young guard who will help from one of the best left sides in football. NYJ have the foundation of a very good oline for years to come, but Brick struggled at times. MIA's line isn't vey good right now. Hopefully for you guys, the draft picks will pan out.

Defensive Line
NE 4
MIA 3
BUF 2
NYJ 1

I kept this the same from last year. NE has one of the best d-lines in football. MIA took some losses but anytime you have Taylor, you have a really good d-line. Buf has a very underrated d-line with Schobel and Denney/Kelsay. The Jets aren't bad, but this is a pretty good group in the division.

Linebackers
MIA 4
NE 3
NYJ 2
BUF 1

Tough one. I respect Thomas but I think him and Crowder are overrted. But they still are the foundation of a really good defense. NE is getting really old at LB but Thomas is a huge pickup. The Jets got run over by pretty much everyone but getting harris is a solid move. The Bills LBs are very young.

Secondary
NE 4
NYJ 3
BUF 2
MIA 1

Close one. NE, assuming Samuel plays, are the class. The Jets added a 1st round cb and Rhodes is a playmaker. Buf has the best safties in the division but our corners are questionable. MIA has question marks all over their secondary.

Special Teams
BUF 4
NYJ 3
MIA 2
NE 1

Buf is one of the league's best on special teams for the last 5 years. Jets have a great returner and their kicker is getting better. Mia's rating totally depends on Ginn. NE's only major question mark.


Obviously, this isn't an exact science but these are my final scores:
NE 30
NYJ 23
BUF 20
MIA 17

What do you think???

One big problem with your approach - you have no ties. Seriously, there are NO cases where two or more of the teams are equal at a position?

I also don't agree with several of your rankings (RB, TE, secondary, OL). Miami had the best defense in the division last season. That is not reflected. You rank the Miami secondary lowest, but that just didn't show up on the field. Also, Buffalo's OL was worse than Miami's last season. They added a decent guard and a very suspect RT. Don't they have to prove it on the field? No way should they be ranked #2.

If Miami signs Green to be their starting QB, you'd have to put them #2 in the division. He has outplayed both Pennington and Losman.

Here are my rankings:


Quarterbacks
NE 4
MIA 3
NYJ 3
BUF 2

Asssuming Green or a Culpepper returned to form.

Running Backs
MIA 3
NYJ 3
NE 2
BUF 1

Brown is the best back in the division.

Wide Receivers
NE 4
NYJ 2
BUF 2
MIA 2

The Bills have nobody after Evans. They Jets are just average. Both the Jets and Bills ranked below the Fins in passing offense and that was with Joey Harrington at QB and before Ted Ginn.

Tight Ends
NE 2
BUF 2
NYJ 2
MIA 2

Not worth making a distinction.

Offensive Line
NE 4
NYJ 3
BUF 2
MIA 2

NE had the fewest sacks in the division. Miami had the best YPC. The Fins OL improved as the season went on.

Defensive Line
NE 4
MIA 3
BUF 2
NYJ 1


Linebackers
MIA 4
NE 3
NYJ 2
BUF 1


Secondary
NE 2
MIA 2
NYJ 2
BUF 2

Miami had the best pass defense in the division. All of the teams were pretty even. Miami's secondary fits their scheme.

Special Teams
BUF 4
NYJ 3
MIA 2
NE 1




These are my final scores:
NE 26
MIA 23
NYJ 21
BUF 18

If Miami gets QB play like last season, change their score to 15. Questionable QB play hurt the OL, RB, and WRs.

Basically, Miami's offense wasn't that far off of the Bills and Jets. Better coaching (no Mularkey), better QB play (Green or a healthy Culpepper), and Ted Ginn will make the offense better.
 
One big problem with your approach - you have no ties. Seriously, there are NO cases where two or more of the teams are equal at a position?

I also don't agree with several of your rankings (RB, TE, secondary, OL). Miami had the best defense in the division last season. That is not reflected. You rank the Miami secondary lowest, but that just didn't show up on the field. Also, Buffalo's OL was worse than Miami's last season. They added a decent guard and a very suspect RT. Don't they have to prove it on the field? No way should they be ranked #2.

If Miami signs Green to be their starting QB, you'd have to put them #2 in the division. He has outplayed both Pennington and Losman.

Here are my rankings:


Quarterbacks
NE 4
MIA 3
NYJ 3
BUF 2

Asssuming Green or a Culpepper returned to form.

Running Backs
MIA 3
NYJ 3
NE 2
BUF 1

Brown is the best back in the division.

Wide Receivers
NE 4
NYJ 2
BUF 2
MIA 2

The Bills have nobody after Evans. They Jets are just average. Both the Jets and Bills ranked below the Fins in passing offense and that was with Joey Harrington at QB and before Ted Ginn.

Tight Ends
NE 2
BUF 2
NYJ 2
MIA 2

Not worth making a distinction.

Offensive Line
NE 4
NYJ 3
BUF 2
MIA 2

NE had the fewest sacks in the division. Miami had the best YPC. The Fins OL improved as the season went on.

Defensive Line
NE 4
MIA 3
BUF 2
NYJ 1


Linebackers
MIA 4
NE 3
NYJ 2
BUF 1


Secondary
NE 2
MIA 2
NYJ 2
BUF 2

Miami had the best pass defense in the division. All of the teams were pretty even. Miami's secondary fits their scheme.

Special Teams
BUF 4
NYJ 3
MIA 2
NE 1




These are my final scores:
NE 26
MIA 23
NYJ 21
BUF 18

If Miami gets QB play like last season, change their score to 15. Questionable QB play hurt the OL, RB, and WRs.

Basically, Miami's offense wasn't that far off of the Bills and Jets. Better coaching (no Mularkey), better QB play (Green or a healthy Culpepper), and Ted Ginn will make the offense better.

Better coaching? Cameron hasnt been a head coach before, you cant assume he will be better. Better QB play? Yes its harder to get worse than last year, but Green isnt even on the team (not to mention 37, had a serious concussion and didnt play well after it last season). Healthy Cupepper? Lets wait and see that before you assume it. At this point in time miami is a 1 in the qb department.

I also think you can argue that Thomas Jones is better than Ronnie Brown. Just take a look at the stats the past few seasons.
 
Better coaching? Cameron hasnt been a head coach before, you cant assume he will be better. Better QB play? Yes its harder to get worse than last year, but Green isnt even on the team (not to mention 37, had a serious concussion and didnt play well after it last season). Healthy Cupepper? Lets wait and see that before you assume it. At this point in time miami is a 1 in the qb department.

I also think you can argue that Thomas Jones is better than Ronnie Brown. Just take a look at the stats the past few seasons.

Can you please agree to disagree? I mean I love the fact that we're all brothers and shi* but c'mon man. You obviously will see the Jets being better then us and this guy will see the Phins be better then your boys.

Peace brother, peace :evil:
 
Better coaching? Cameron hasnt been a head coach before, you cant assume he will be better. Better QB play? Yes its harder to get worse than last year, but Green isnt even on the team (not to mention 37, had a serious concussion and didnt play well after it last season). Healthy Cupepper? Lets wait and see that before you assume it. At this point in time miami is a 1 in the qb department.

I also think you can argue that Thomas Jones is better than Ronnie Brown. Just take a look at the stats the past few seasons.

We already talked about Jones. He's been in the league 5 years more then Brown so he HAS to be better. More experience and knowledge of the game AT THIS POINT. Big f'ing deal

Doesn't mean Jones is the best back in the division. If he comes in and gets 1,500 yds and 13 TDs then I'll crown him. But I know who he is! :D
 
I like this. It's a fun little exercise, and requires much more knowledge of the entire division than I have.

At QB Miami has to be ranked worst. You don't even know who's starting. I'd take Losman and Chad over Miami's best case option, Green, anyway.

As for Miami having the best defense in the division (as stated by FinFanInBuffalo), that's debatable. Pats fans will tell you points allowed are all that matters. Miami fans will quote yards allowed. Neither is perfect (the former penalizes a defense when the offense turns the ball over in their own territory, the latter makes no allowance for turnovers and red zone defense). Maybe the Bills fan will chime in on how he likes to judge team defense.

Oh, and I can't chime in on Jones vs. Brown. I really like Ronnie Brown and am curious what he could do with a non-crappy line. I just know nothing about Jones other than the fact he's put up some good #s in Chicago. And I was very happy to hear that Maroney had a rib injury and didn't simply fall off a cliff last year. If he gets hurt expect NE to go back to "running via the pass" as Sammy Morris and Kevin Faulk scare no one as primary backs.
 
Better coaching? Cameron hasnt been a head coach before, you cant assume he will be better. Better QB play? Yes its harder to get worse than last year, but Green isnt even on the team (not to mention 37, had a serious concussion and didnt play well after it last season). Healthy Cupepper? Lets wait and see that before you assume it. At this point in time miami is a 1 in the qb department.

I also think you can argue that Thomas Jones is better than Ronnie Brown. Just take a look at the stats the past few seasons.

Mularkey was as bad as you can get as OC. The team did not respond to Saban's approach. That's addition by subtraction in the coaching. Cameron is widely reknowned for his offensive coaching abilities and Capers is as good as they come. Plus I like the fact that the GM duties are handled by a fulltime GM.

Thomas Jones is not better than Ronnie Brown. I looked at the stats for the past two seasons. Jones has gotten more carries behind a better OL. Brown has the better YPC average, more receptions, and more big plays. I'll take Brown.

I didn't assume Miami would get better QB play. I clearly stated that if they get the same plays as last season, give the team a score of 15.
 
Quarterbacks
NE 4
MIA 3
NYJ 3
BUF 2

Asssuming Green or a Culpepper returned to form.

green or Culpepper at their best are not better than a healthy Chad
 
green or Culpepper at their best are not better than a healthy Chad

Several points:

1. THREE = THREE

2. Green has six seasons of 3400 yards passing or more. Culpepper has four. Pennington has ZERO. Green has four seasons of 23 or more TDs. Culpepper has three. Pennington has ZERO. Pennington had 17 TDs and 16 INTs last season. In his last 19 games he had the same number of INTs as TDs. It's been three years since he has had a decent season.

3. You have an inflated opinion of Pennington. He has been in the league for seven years. He has had two decent seasons. Those seasons can be characterized as very conservative play by the QB. His best season was 3120 yards and 22 TDs. Those are AVERAGE numbers.

Chad's best:
2002 New York Jets 15 12 399 275 68.9 3120 7.82 47 22 6 22/135 40 3 104.2

Culpepper's best:
2004 Minnesota Vikings 16 16 548 379 69.2 4717 8.61 82 39 11 46/238 63 18 110.9

Green's best:
2004 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 556 369 66.4 4591 8.26 70 27 17 32/227 59 9 95.2

Clearly Culpepper's and Green's best is much better than Chad's best.
 
Several points:

1. THREE = THREE

2. Green has six seasons of 3400 yards passing or more. Culpepper has four. Pennington has ZERO. Green has four seasons of 23 or more TDs. Culpepper has three. Pennington has ZERO. Pennington had 17 TDs and 16 INTs last season. In his last 19 games he had the same number of INTs as TDs. It's been three years since he has had a decent season.

3. You have an inflated opinion of Pennington. He has been in the league for seven years. He has had two decent seasons. Those seasons can be characterized as very conservative play by the QB. His best season was 3120 yards and 22 TDs. Those are AVERAGE numbers.

Chad's best:
2002 New York Jets 15 12 399 275 68.9 3120 7.82 47 22 6 22/135 40 3 104.2

Culpepper's best:
2004 Minnesota Vikings 16 16 548 379 69.2 4717 8.61 82 39 11 46/238 63 18 110.9

Green's best:
2004 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 556 369 66.4 4591 8.26 70 27 17 32/227 59 9 95.2

Clearly Culpepper's and Green's best is much better than Chad's best.


those are great meaningless fantasy stats but when daunte starts his team is 6 games UNDER .500 and he has just 2 PO appearances in the weak NFC and in Minny when Daunte was a memebr of the Vikes and missed games he Vikes were 4 games OVER .500.

All those pretty #s for Trent Green rsulted in ZERO playoff wins and 2 playoff appearances(last year Huard got them in position, KC was much worse w/ Green and he was awful in th playoffs).

Since Chad became the starter for the jets in 2002 th Jets are 31-22 when he starts and 8-19 when he does not and Chad has 3 PO appearances despite MUCH fewer starts than the other 2. You can have your meaningless fantasy #s, I'll take the wins and that's why you won't win w/ either QB.
 
Chad's best:
2002 New York Jets 15 12 399 275 68.9 3120 7.82 47 22 6 22/135 40 3 104.2

Culpepper's best:
2004 Minnesota Vikings 16 16 548 379 69.2 4717 8.61 82 39 11 46/238 63 18 110.9

Green's best:
2004 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 556 369 66.4 4591 8.26 70 27 17 32/227 59 9 95.2

Clearly Culpepper's and Green's best is much better than Chad's best.

By the way, during Chad;s best year he led a team out from a 1-4, 205 hole to win a division where the last place team was 8-8 while in Daunte's "best" year he led his eam to an 8-8 record in a division w/ ONE inning team an a conf that sen TWO .500 teams to the playoffs and Green's "best" year he led his team to a 7-9 record 5 games behind the ivision leader that Chad, w/ a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder, beat on the road in the playoffs.
 
Mularkey was as bad as you can get as OC. The team did not respond to Saban's approach. That's addition by subtraction in the coaching. Cameron is widely reknowned for his offensive coaching abilities and Capers is as good as they come. Plus I like the fact that the GM duties are handled by a fulltime GM.

Thomas Jones is not better than Ronnie Brown. I looked at the stats for the past two seasons. Jones has gotten more carries behind a better OL. Brown has the better YPC average, more receptions, and more big plays. I'll take Brown.

I didn't assume Miami would get better QB play. I clearly stated that if they get the same plays as last season, give the team a score of 15.

Ha give me LT and Gates and I will be known for my offensive coaching abilities...

You didnt assume miami would get better qb play? You ranked them tied with the jets. The current state of affairs says they are in the worst situation right now and until culpepper gets healthy or they get green they are a 1.
 
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