and the miami dolphins select...

[finsfanjay13]

I agree that Alabama and Ohio State were two of the best defenses in the country. Although I personally believe you can see a lot from how a guy faces Nebraska, Boston College, and Oklahoma as well. And Iowa. Not ready to toss those out and pretend they don't compare with Alabama and Ohio State. They do. But there's no doubt that some guys particularly Gabbert seem to be given a free pass versus Mallett...probably because of the character thing.

Too much is made of Mallett's performance against Bama. Three bad interceptions, no doubt about it. But otherwise he had two or three times more good plays than bad, and that was being very nitpicky with the bad plays. He needs to learn when to give up on a bad play. That's one of his most consistent problems, when he does screw up.

And I felt Mallett's Ohio State performance was about equal to Gabbert's Iowa performance, both good overall against good pass defenses. Both threw the critical interception at a bad time. Both were generally throwing the ball all over the field and throwing well for most of the game. Mallett's got a better history against better defenses. Also a better cast though.

I do recall that after that INT against Ohio State you mentioned the same thing I did in this thread (which I was trying to say, and my only point about Mallett): That Mallett can sometimes kill drives all by himself and be prone to a bad play. That's not verbatim, but you get the point. Regardless, if people ignore his alleged character concerns, he's a top-10 pick with ease. From a pure value play, Mallett is worth it at #15.

 

[miamiz19d]

mallets big mark against him is character issues.

thank god we drafted that other guy number 1, and not listening about character issues....I think vontae went 20 something to us, but should have been a top 10 pick but dropped because of character issues. WE have done it before, we well do it again. its human nature.

 

[miamiz19d]

and vontae's been nothing but a beast on the field.

 

[ckparrothead]

Yes, you can see enough from watching quarterbacks play against Nebraska (especially), Oklahoma, Boston College, and Iowa to get an evaluation, but they're not the same thing as facing Alabama's defense.

Every quarterback that has faced Bama's defense over the past 2 years usually either has their most dreadful outing of the season (or career), gets knocked out of the game... or both. You just can't say that about these other teams, it's a different test going up against Saban's Alabama defense. The physical and psychological strain on a quarterback is different.

Gabbert has NO history against good defenses other than a bad one on the rare occassion he was able to face one. Defenses that are considered "good" from the Big-12 aren't on par with the defenses from the SEC. Defenses from the B1G that are considered "good" are a little closer to what the SEC can throw at you every week... mainly only Ohio St. and Iowa. (not counting new B1G member Nebraska).

I think we've attempted to make the best case we can possibly make in order to help people realize that Ryan Mallett is not this gimme sack that people think he is. In fact, he's sacked about 1 in every 16 drop backs, whereas that beast of an athlete Cam Newton is sacked about 1 in every 12 drop backs facing the same defenses.

Blaine Gabbert is sacked less than BOTH of them, but you damn sure can't tell it by watching him play. Jake Locker is sacked more than any of them, at least he has a reason for his lack of accuracy and ability to function like an elite QB prospect from inside the pocket, without even mentioning the fact that he didn't have a checkdown option these other QB's had. His running back always had to stay in and block due to the offensive line being so poor. Locker either had to complete the pass to scrubs down the field, take off and run with it, or eat it. The checkdown option to help pad his completion percentage or take the pressure off his pathetic offensive line trying to sustain blocks wasn't there. The fact that he didn't turn the ball over more than he did considering the circumstances, and his TD/INT ratio is better than Gabbert's despite playing with an even more inferior supporting cast is a credit to him.

Gabbert's supporting cast is a lot better than Locker's, and still couldn't perform better than Locker despite both playing the same Nebraska defense twice over the past 2 years. However, Locker does have a "W" against the Huskers despite his receivers getting run out of bounds 10 yards into their route, Gabbert doesn't.

Please. You know damn well Locker was an atrocious passer against Nebraska in both games, and only won the second game because Washington finally figured out that the ONLY way you were going to beat Nebraska's defense is to successfully and consistently pound the ball at them on the ground. I watched Locker face Nebraska twice. I watched Gabbert face Nebraska as well. I graded both, very closely. It's not even close. Not. Even. Close. Blaine Gabbert was the far superior player. He struggled because, that's what quarterbacks generally did against Nebraska's defense when asked to pass on them all day...struggle. Gabbert was that offense, they didn't have a ground game. He was just asked to sit back and pass all day against the best pass defense in the country...throwing the ball right into the teeth of the defense. At least Washington had the kind of ground game to keep Nebraska's defense honest. If not, there's no way in HELL that you see Jake Locker complete that deep 45 yard touchdown to Jermaine Kearse. That pass went right over top of Prince Amukamara. Why? Because Prince was peeking in the backfield on the play-action boot. Would he find himself peeking in the backfield if he wasn't afraid of a Washington rushing attack which would later go on to BEAT Nebraska when they played a second time? Hell...and...no. That 45 yard touchdown was the lone bright spot in what otherwise might be the worst performance I've ever seen a quarterback have, maybe ever. It represented over 60% of Locker's passing yardage that day, and 25% of his completions. Yeah, seriously.

Gabbert didn't have the luxury of a running offense that could scare Prince Amukamara, cause him to peek in the backfield, opening up guys deep. They just went pass, pass, pass all day long. And in the end, he performed far better than Locker. It wasn't even close.

 

[ckparrothead]

I really like Mallet. One of my favorite prospects. But when I read this line I almost of reservations with the whole Henne thing. I can say the same thing about Henne that you just said about Mallet in the Alabama game. It makes me hesitate a little bit......just saying.

Perhaps that's your evaluation of Chad Henne but it's not mine. When I look at Henne against other QBs in this league, that's where he stands out. I tend not to like what Henne is doing on most of his plays. Some of the other guys, I tend to like what they're doing on most of the plays, and then they just have a few bad ones.

 

[ckparrothead]

I do recall that after that INT against Ohio State you mentioned the same thing I did in this thread (which I was trying to say, and my only point about Mallett): That Mallett can sometimes kill drives all by himself and be prone to a bad play. That's not verbatim, but you get the point. Regardless, if people ignore his alleged character concerns, he's a top-10 pick with ease. From a pure value play, Mallett is worth it at #15.

The fact that it was a second time Ryan Mallett got into a serious crunch moment, game on his shoulders, and he threw the game away...that's a red flag. Definitely. It causes you to HAVE to go back deep into his history and see if it's consistent. I did exactly that, and I personally found that it wasn't. And that's one of the ways I became more comfortable with him.

 

[ckparrothead]

Vontae Davis is a perfect example of a guy that had the character whisper campaigns going heavily against him, and with his combination of physical talent especially in that particular draft where most of the corners did not have great physical size and athleticism profiles...he did drop because of those rumors. I don't think there's any denying that. But, at the same time, what have we seen since he got to Miami? Day one starter. One of the hardest working men on the team. Always says the right things. Never a problem. And now he's on his way to being one of the better #1 corners in the league.

And yet, I remember right before the Draft...seeing some "insider" stuff on Vontae Davis, sourced from actual scouts and GMs. It was vicious. They talked about how dumb he is, and how they have no idea how he scored what he did on the wonderlic, must have cheated. They talked about how selfish and immature he is, etc.

The difference between what those "insiders" were saying...and what we've seen from Vontae in Miami...is just so unbelievably stark, I can't even fathom it. It really changed how I approach these types of issues.

 

[miamiz19d]

when i think razorback, especially the past few years, i think about a run first team.
theyve had some talented rbs prior to mallet, and invented the wildcat.
so for mallet to go there, and then became what that teams identity was, speaks volumes.
the kid is for real. get him better recievers, with a pass blocking oline, and he would be dangerous.
so what if he had a coke problem, so did marino! and how that turn out?
so what if he has a temper, so did marino! and how that turn out?
so what if he is slow as a snail!, guess what? so was marino and how did that turn out for us?


im just saying, mallet reminds me too much of marino coming out of pitt for us not to take a chance on him!

 

[miamiz19d]

Vontae Davis is a perfect example of a guy that had the character whisper campaigns going heavily against him, and with his combination of physical talent especially in that particular draft where most of the corners did not have great physical size and athleticism profiles...he did drop because of those rumors. I don't think there's any denying that. But, at the same time, what have we seen since he got to Miami? Day one starter. One of the hardest working men on the team. Always says the right things. Never a problem. And now he's on his way to being one of the better #1 corners in the league.

And yet, I remember right before the Draft...seeing some "insider" stuff on Vontae Davis, sourced from actual scouts and GMs. It was vicious. They talked about how dumb he is, and how they have no idea how he scored what he did on the wonderlic, must have cheated. They talked about how selfish and immature he is, etc.

The difference between what those "insiders" were saying...and what we've seen from Vontae in Miami...is just so unbelievably stark, I can't even fathom it. It really changed how I approach these types of issues.

perfect.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Please. You know damn well Locker was an atrocious passer against Nebraska in both games, and only won the second game because Washington finally figured out that the ONLY way you were going to beat Nebraska's defense is to successfully and consistently pound the ball at them on the ground. I watched Locker face Nebraska twice. I watched Gabbert face Nebraska as well. I graded both, very closely. It's not even close. Not. Even. Close. Blaine Gabbert was the far superior player. He struggled because, that's what quarterbacks generally did against Nebraska's defense when asked to pass on them all day...struggle. Gabbert was that offense, they didn't have a ground game. He was just asked to sit back and pass all day against the best pass defense in the country...throwing the ball right into the teeth of the defense. At least Washington had the kind of ground game to keep Nebraska's defense honest. If not, there's no way in HELL that you see Jake Locker complete that deep 45 yard touchdown to Jermaine Kearse. That pass went right over top of Prince Amukamara. Why? Because Prince was peeking in the backfield on the play-action boot. Would he find himself peeking in the backfield if he wasn't afraid of a Washington rushing attack which would later go on to BEAT Nebraska when they played a second time? Hell...and...no. That 45 yard touchdown was the lone bright spot in what otherwise might be the worst performance I've ever seen a quarterback have, maybe ever. It represented over 60% of Locker's passing yardage that day, and 25% of his completions. Yeah, seriously.

Gabbert didn't have the luxury of a running offense that could scare Prince Amukamara, cause him to peek in the backfield, opening up guys deep. They just went pass, pass, pass all day long. And in the end, he performed far better than Locker. It wasn't even close.

Gabbert would've been just an atrocious of a passer against Nebraska as Locker if his receivers were getting run out of bounds every play.

That "luxury" running game of Washington's has never scared anybody, much less Nebraska...which is why they're such a bad football team.

Prince gets caught looking in the backfield quite a bit, not just against Washington. Hell, that's why he got toasted by Justin Blackmon all day long...


You won't see a much worse passing performance than the one Locker had the first time around against Nebraska, there's no denying that. However, you also won't see a much worse defensive effort than the one Washington had against Nebraska by allowing the Huskers to run for 400 yards on the ground in no time..

Defenses like Nebraska and Alabama are designed to kill the head of the snake first, the quarterback. Which is why you've seen quarterbacks consistently struggle against these two defenses.. Including Josh Freeman who had almost as dismal of a performance against Nebraska 2 years ago as Jake Locker did..

Jake Locker learned how to beat Nebraska the second time around too, not just Washington. He did it by being the same type of quarterback Cam Newton was in beating SEC defenses, by grinding it out on the ground.

 

[hoops]

character concerns and drug use concerns to me are not the same thing...i heard all the character stuff about vontae but i never heard drug use

even still vontae in miami has been a lot of the same player he was at illinois imo...supreme talent but same old inconsistent play...that kid could be dominant but i just don't know if he has the want and desire...sometimes i get a content feel from him

 

[finsfanjay13]

The fact that it was a second time Ryan Mallett got into a serious crunch moment, game on his shoulders, and he threw the game away...that's a red flag. Definitely. It causes you to HAVE to go back deep into his history and see if it's consistent. I did exactly that, and I personally found that it wasn't. And that's one of the ways I became more comfortable with him.

Oh, I agree. I'm just pawning you to help solidify my argument. :)

 

[miamiz19d]

you can overcome drugs, if your luney tunes, your screwed for life.

 

[beanh8er]

character concerns and drug use concerns to me are not the same thing...i heard all the character stuff about vontae but i never heard drug use

even still vontae in miami has been a lot of the same player he was at illinois imo...supreme talent but same old inconsistent play...that kid could be dominant but i just don't know if he has the want and desire...sometimes i get a content feel from him

Vontae tested positive for marijuana at the combine.

 

[ckparrothead]

Gabbert would've been just an atrocious of a passer against Nebraska as Locker if his receivers were getting run out of bounds every play.

No, he just has receivers that quit on their routes if they didn't manage to get open immediately.

That "luxury" running game of Washington's has never scared anybody, much less Nebraska...which is why they're such a bad football team.

That's just not even accurate.

Prince gets caught looking in the backfield quite a bit, not just against Washington. Hell, that's why he got toasted by Justin Blackmon all day long...

Think Kendall Hunter and his 26 carries for 201 yards and 2 TDs that day might have had something to do with the reason Prince Amukamara got caught peeking in the backfield against Oklahoma State as well?

Jake Locker learned how to beat Nebraska the second time around too, not just Washington. He did it by being the same type of quarterback Cam Newton was in beating SEC defenses, by grinding it out on the ground.

That's a big stretch. Cam Newton also passed well against those SEC defenses, including going 13 of 20 for 216 yards and 3 TDs with 0 INTs against Alabama.

Jake Locker's never even come close to doing anything even remotely as impressive. Ever.