Anyone here think Foles is better than Tannehill? | Page 16 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Anyone here think Foles is better than Tannehill?

I can handle just fine. But come at this with some stats and facts to back up why RT is better. Like sack rate. And big road wins when they matter late in a season. Anything.

The argument that "if we can just build around him so he can win" is wearing thin.

You ignore all of that every time. That information has been posted in this very thread. You're only interested in belittling anyone who disagrees. I mean, blaming the QB for the sack rate behind this shitty OL? What's the point?
 
What is your major malfunction? Do you want to argue just for arguments sake? Are you that entrenched in the RT camp?

Foles even with Fischer's coaching and jumping to different teams flat out has won more games. His W-L record is actually a winning record. His numbers overall are better. And those are regular season numbers. It isn't even counting this latest run in the postseason by going 3-0.

No way in hell RT wins games like what Foles just did if he was the one traded to Philly instead of Ajayi and played same games as Foles. Never. Ever.

You can hitch your wagon to an 8 game stretch in 2016 all you want. When RT goes and wins big road games when they matter and late in a season please let me know. When he gets the team to the playoffs and wins something of note let us all know. The eye test confirms it to me. He's marginal. At best. Middling. 37-40. Five years in and he's plus 30 and off an ACL.

Im sick and tired of the excuses for RT. He has taken a crapload of sacks and quite a few are on him. Go and blame the offensive line. Go and blame any unit you want. Blame everything else but RT.

Why you don't want a game changer back there is beyond me. But no. You're content with game manager RT if only the Fins could build around him so they can win with him.

Oh and by the way Keenum put up a season this year RT could only dream of (as in he has never done over the course of a season).

68pct completion
14 starts
11-3 record
22 TD
7 INT
4.4 pct sack rate
98.3 QBR

So don't be so quick to throw a Keenum out there in passing and say a team with Keenum can make the NFC championship game. When this no name just put up a season like that. But let me guess. It's all because he had a better team around him. Nothing at all to do with the actual player.

I guess QB doesn't even matter. Let's just build a juggernaut at all positions and we can throw effing anyone back there.

The reason I go to that 8 game stretch is because that was the last glimpse we had of Tannehill before he went down with an ACL injury. Ya know...the most recent exposure we have. Kind of like Foles in the last two games.

I’ll be the first to say Foles played very well the last two games in the playoffs, but he did not look good in the Falcons, Cowboys or Raiders game.

So, in a sense, I’m using a larger sample size towards my projections where as you’re using two games to say that Foles is suddenly a game changer. Yes, two very important games, but Flacco also was incredible in his post season run and look where he is now.

Do I think we can do better than Tannehill? Yes. But the only way we’re actually able to find an “elite QB” is to take a chance on a draft pick.

Keenum had a good year. Not elite, but a good year. One good year. What, before this year, passed your eye test that he would be a good QB?

Listen, I’m not here to say you’re stupid or attack you personally, so there’s no reason to get upset. I have a belief and so do you. There’s no reason to think I’m personally attacking you.

I’m just going to believe Tanny can become a good enough QB to win us games in the future based on what he looked like before he went down. If the FO doesn’t believe that, we’ll find out this offseason. And if you look back in this thread to when I posted the Twitter thread on some of the throws that makes me believe that, maybe that’ll help. If not, then it is what it is.

Either way, I think we’re both fin fans and just want to win. If Foles somehow gets here and plays lights out, I will be just as happy as you.

Fins Up.
 
Foles is on the better team no doubt and is still wildly inconsistent, just what career path he's on is anyone's guess.
 
And outside of his year with Kelly and his playoff run this year he’s been close to terrible if not terrible.

So maybe, just maybe he’s a lightning in a bottle kinda guy that needs an offense that is easy to play in.
 
And outside of his year with Kelly and his playoff run this year he’s been close to terrible if not terrible.

So maybe, just maybe he’s a lightning in a bottle kinda guy that needs an offense that is easy to play in.

Ya, I dont get the hypocrisy of them thinking this short amount of work proves anything with Foles and in the same breath saying we need a new QB
 
It's funny how Foles wins because of his cast, and Tannehill loses because of his.

Exactly! That was the first wise post coming out of your profile. Crazy how a team sport works isn't it?

Just like your post the page before this sowing foles vs RT career stats did nothing but prove RT is equally capable of winning a SB as Foles but for some reason you see it as a dig at RT.....
 
This argument probably wouldn't exist without the Super Bowl. And while it is the biggest stage it is still one game. I know there are some who've always been high on Foles, but I think the consensus prior to that game would've been Tannehill. Despite how good the eagles roster is, they were still considered underdogs because Foles was under center. Maybe Foles will become better but until I see more, I think it's difficult to say Foles is better.
 
The reason I go to that 8 game stretch is because that was the last glimpse we had of Tannehill before he went down with an ACL injury. Ya know...the most recent exposure we have. Kind of like Foles in the last two games.

I’ll be the first to say Foles played very well the last two games in the playoffs, but he did not look good in the Falcons, Cowboys or Raiders game.

So, in a sense, I’m using a larger sample size towards my projections where as you’re using two games to say that Foles is suddenly a game changer. Yes, two very important games, but Flacco also was incredible in his post season run and look where he is now.

Do I think we can do better than Tannehill? Yes. But the only way we’re actually able to find an “elite QB” is to take a chance on a draft pick.

Keenum had a good year. Not elite, but a good year. One good year. What, before this year, passed your eye test that he would be a good QB?

Listen, I’m not here to say you’re stupid or attack you personally, so there’s no reason to get upset. I have a belief and so do you. There’s no reason to think I’m personally attacking you.

I’m just going to believe Tanny can become a good enough QB to win us games in the future based on what he looked like before he went down. If the FO doesn’t believe that, we’ll find out this offseason. And if you look back in this thread to when I posted the Twitter thread on some of the throws that makes me believe that, maybe that’ll help. If not, then it is what it is.

Either way, I think we’re both fin fans and just want to win. If Foles somehow gets here and plays lights out, I will be just as happy as you.

Fins Up.
I will be the first to say I do not want Nick Foles on Miami. Never would advocate for the move. Only saying I believe over both of their careers that Foles is better. It's clearly debatable. We can surely agree to disagree here.

I understand the allegiance to RT. He's been a team guy. A stand up guy. Tough as nails. Gets up from the mat repeatedly.

I just view RT as a limited ceiling guy. It was evident early in his career to me. By taking Foles over RT I am saying Foles has won more than he's lost and has demonstrated the nads to win on road in tough games. Sure he was going to retire. So was Kurt Warner. Retirement talk means little. We all wish Cutler had stayed retired.

The RT 8 game stretch in 2016 is key. You view it as things to come. I view it more pessimistically. I just have no evidence to believe RT can win a tough division road game late in season. Or any tough road game late.

We all hope RT gets it done in 2018. I will be cheering for him and hope I'm proven wrong about him.
 
Tannehill is more individually talented than Foles. Not even a question.

Why do you think the QB play didnt drop off from Wentz --> Foles???? hmmm

What you saw in the SB is a COMPLETE TEAM in a TEAM GAME.

Coaching, scheme, and game planning (as well as TEAM execution) sets up any qb up for success.

Bc the Eagles TEAM has been executing all year, including a very good OLINE.

I cant believe some of these responses. I guess Trent Dilfer is more talented than Tannehill too.
 
Tannehill is more individually talented than Foles. Not even a question.

Why do you think the QB play didnt drop off from Wentz --> Foles???? hmmm

What you saw in the SB is a COMPLETE TEAM in a TEAM GAME.

Coaching, scheme, and game planning (as well as TEAM execution) sets up any qb up for success.

Bc the Eagles TEAM has been executing all year, including a very good OLINE.

I cant believe some of these responses. I guess Trent Dilfer is more talented than Tannehill too.

Dilfer > Marino. 1 to nothing lol.
 
Exactly! That was the first wise post coming out of your profile. Crazy how a team sport works isn't it?

Just like your post the page before this sowing foles vs RT career stats did nothing but prove RT is equally capable of winning a SB as Foles but for some reason you see it as a dig at RT.....

I'm not completely sure the stat sheet between Foles and RT shows that RT is equally capable of doing anything. Unless we use an 8 game stretch two years ago that keeps getting referenced even though it includes a dud of a game at Baltimore and losing 38-6.

Didn't Matt Moore come in and post a 105.6 QBR in the last 3.5 games of 2016 after RT went down? Didn't he go 3-1 in these games including two road Dec wins in the division? Wasnt it 8 TD and 3 INT? Then a 97.8 QBR in the playoff loss to Pittsburgh? Hmmm wonder what all that means. Oh yeah, the defenses "couldn't gameplan for him". I thought all these wins in 2016 were because of RT?

The RT backers will back him till the end. I give you credit for staying the course.
 
I'm not completely sure the stat sheet between Foles and RT shows that RT is equally capable of doing anything. Unless we use an 8 game stretch two years ago that keeps getting referenced even though it includes a dud of a game at Baltimore and losing 38-6.

Didn't Matt Moore come in and post a 105.6 QBR in the last 3.5 games of 2016 after RT went down? Didn't he go 3-1 in these games including two road Dec wins in the division? Wasnt it 8 TD and 3 INT? Then a 97.8 QBR in the playoff loss to Pittsburgh? Hmmm wonder what all that means. Oh yeah, the defenses "couldn't gameplan for him". I thought all these wins in 2016 were because of RT?

The RT backers will back him till the end. I give you credit for staying the course.

I think the 8 game stretch is overblown, since 2013 he's had similar 8 game stretches.

2016 13tds 5int comp% 69.10 and QB rating of 100.1
2015 week 5-12 14tds 6ints comp% 64.39, qb rating 95.5.
2014 week 6-13 14tds 4ints comp% 70.85, qb rating 100.1
2013 week 9-14 (6 games) 12tds 5ints comp% 64.66, qb rating 93.9

To me the significant improvements came in 3rd down where he has a career QB rating of 75.9 and jumped up to 87.6 in 2016 and winning those close games, going from winning .620% of games decided by 7 points or less between 2012-15 to winning .778% in 2016, and of course his deep ball improvement.

Like you said though he played a cupcake schedule so I'm not sure if I trust him 100% yet, but i'm hopeful.
 
I think the 8 game stretch is overblown, since 2013 he's had similar 8 game stretches.

2016 13tds 5int comp% 69.10 and QB rating of 100.1
2015 week 5-12 14tds 6ints comp% 64.39, qb rating 95.5.
2014 week 6-13 14tds 4ints comp% 70.85, qb rating 100.1
2013 week 9-14 (6 games) 12tds 5ints comp% 64.66, qb rating 93.9

To me the significant improvements came in 3rd down where he has a career QB rating of 75.9 and jumped up to 87.6 in 2016 and winning those close games, going from winning .620% of games decided by 7 points or less between 2012-15 to winning .778% in 2016, and of course his deep ball improvement.

Like you said though he played a cupcake schedule so I'm not sure if I trust him 100% yet, but i'm hopeful.
This is good data and research. For a second there you almost had me believing RT could be the answer and I was wrong about him :-)

2018 is the latest make or break year for RT. I sure hope we enter the season with an actual contingency plan this time.
 
I think the 8 game stretch is overblown, since 2013 he's had similar 8 game stretches.

2016 13tds 5int comp% 69.10 and QB rating of 100.1
2015 week 5-12 14tds 6ints comp% 64.39, qb rating 95.5.
2014 week 6-13 14tds 4ints comp% 70.85, qb rating 100.1
2013 week 9-14 (6 games) 12tds 5ints comp% 64.66, qb rating 93.9

To me the significant improvements came in 3rd down where he has a career QB rating of 75.9 and jumped up to 87.6 in 2016 and winning those close games, going from winning .620% of games decided by 7 points or less between 2012-15 to winning .778% in 2016, and of course his deep ball improvement.

Like you said though he played a cupcake schedule so I'm not sure if I trust him 100% yet, but i'm hopeful.

I started thinking hey what was RT W-L record in the games you referenced above?

A couple corrections in your data:

2015 week 5 was a bye week. So you mean weeks 6-12 or 7 games

2013 week 15 was a huge game for RT and a win over NE. So I'm sure you meant weeks 9-15 or 7 games here.

So adding up these stretches is a total of 30 of RT's 77 career starts.

In these 30 games RT has a W-L record of 20-10. A staggering 67% win rate.

This means in RTs other 47 career starts his record is an abysmal 17 wins and 30 losses.

What can we draw from this?

I am pretty sure if we studied many historical middling QBs like RT we would find stretches of play like this. Periods of strong play mixed with other periods of poor play. The issue with middling QBs like RT is their inconsistency week to week and stretch to stretch.

Maybe his supporting cast is why he is so inconsistent? I tend to think it's more to do with the fact he just isn't that great.

Bottom line in your post is you have uncovered a key clue: RT has had stretches of good play dating back to 2013, but somehow still hasn't put it together for a season. Why then do we think 2018 and beyond will be any different?
 
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