bakedmatt
I drink your milkshake!
bluehaze said:That's the nice thing about message boards, if you lose track of the conversation you can simply scroll back and remind yourself what you were talking about.
:hmph:
Maybe I'm being diplomatic.
Article absolutely KILLING Chambers
- Thread starter Gardenhead
- Start date
:hmph:
Maybe I'm being diplomatic.
cnc66
wiley veteran bad spelur
bakedmatt said:
no, I'm suggesting that Chambers really does suck when 40 recievers including the number two and three on his own team are playing better and are more productive... be diplomatic with that.
bakedmatt
I drink your milkshake!
John Biello said:
I think that the situation is just a lot more complicated than some of you give it credit.
http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leaders.asp?year=Q&type=NFL+Receiving&rank=232&Submit=Go
Do you believe those numbers? Steve Smith has 4 more drops, but has caught 62% of the passes thrown his way. Terrell Owens has 7 more drops, but catches 57% of the passes thrown his way. In spite of their struggles, they're still forcing the ball to their playmakers. We don't have that luxury, because our offense as a whole isn't good enough, and Chambers' role in our offense is going to suffer.
I think Chambers' DVOA rating is a reflection of the whole team's performance and I'd take any comments about Chambers that come from Bostonsportsmedia.com with a grain of salt.
On the Football Outsiders site it says "DVOA is still far away from the point where we can use it to represent the value of a player separate from the performance of his ten teammates that are also involved in each play. That means that when we say, "Larry Johnson has a DVOA of 27.6%," what we are really saying is "Larry Johnson, playing in the Kansas City offensive system with the Kansas City offensive line blocking for him and Trent Green selling the fake when necessary, has a DVOA of 27.6%."
Funny thing at the bottom of that Receivers DVOA page...Chambers DVOA rank is #3 for rushing by wide receivers.
On the Football Outsiders site it says "DVOA is still far away from the point where we can use it to represent the value of a player separate from the performance of his ten teammates that are also involved in each play. That means that when we say, "Larry Johnson has a DVOA of 27.6%," what we are really saying is "Larry Johnson, playing in the Kansas City offensive system with the Kansas City offensive line blocking for him and Trent Green selling the fake when necessary, has a DVOA of 27.6%."
Funny thing at the bottom of that Receivers DVOA page...Chambers DVOA rank is #3 for rushing by wide receivers.
bakedmatt said:
Evidently it's too complicated for you to comprehend look at these numbers and tell me which of these recievers would you say is not good enough?
Chambers: 122 Attempts 43% Caught 611 Yards
Welker: 83 Attempts 73% Caught 598 Yards
Booker: 71 Attempts 61% Caught 598 Yards
McMicheal:70 Attempts 66% Caught 467 Yards
Hagan: 32 Attempts 53% Caught 180 Yards
bakedmatt
I drink your milkshake!
thigg4 said:
Yep. And that's very telling. DVOA is efficient as a measure for an entire offense... NOT individual players.
rdhstlr23
Go Fins!
Disnardo said:
Well, I wish the writer wouldn't enter such phrases as the worst WR in the NFL, or other phrases making claims that he's "one of the worst". The argument of him being a #1 WR is understandable. That may or may not be true. But, to me he's not only trying to show that, he's making the claim that he's terrible. Which, in my eyes isn't true, nor is his data a showing of that.
bakedmatt
I drink your milkshake!
bluehaze said:
Ugh
Are attempts including any passes are are catchable? Hagan has been our worst WR - dropping passes in his mitts 5 times this season.
bakedmatt
I drink your milkshake!
I remember these rankings from last season, and in spite of having a 1,000-yard season, DVOA ranked Chambers below Marty Booker. What's that all about?!
With Detroit... Most of Joeys WR's had better stats...
Here are interesting stats...they deal with our current QB Joey...
When Hoey was with Detroit in 2002 (5.54 YPA, 50% comp), his # 1 WR (A Hakim) had a 14.6 YPC, caught 45% fo passes; and his # 2 (Shroeder) had 16.5 YPC, caught 47% of passes...
When Joey was with Detroit in 2004 (6.23 YPA, 56% comp), his # 1 WR (A Hakim) had 17.2 YPC, caught 45% of passes; and his # 2 (R. Williams) had 15.1 YPC, caught 45% of passes...
When Joey was with Detroit in 2005 (6.1 YPA, 57% comp), his # 1 WR (R. Williams) had 15.3 YPC, caught 56% of passes...
Of course this was with Joey, now with MIA, Joey has a 6.09 YPA, and 59% comp and what has our #1 WR accomplished with him?
after 7 games with Joey, he had 12.17 YPC, and caught 39% of his passes...
So we can continue to blame Joey but the stats above don't follow the Detroit trend... it shows another issue or at least it kind of eliminates him from this current CC issue...
Here are interesting stats...they deal with our current QB Joey...
When Hoey was with Detroit in 2002 (5.54 YPA, 50% comp), his # 1 WR (A Hakim) had a 14.6 YPC, caught 45% fo passes; and his # 2 (Shroeder) had 16.5 YPC, caught 47% of passes...
When Joey was with Detroit in 2004 (6.23 YPA, 56% comp), his # 1 WR (A Hakim) had 17.2 YPC, caught 45% of passes; and his # 2 (R. Williams) had 15.1 YPC, caught 45% of passes...
When Joey was with Detroit in 2005 (6.1 YPA, 57% comp), his # 1 WR (R. Williams) had 15.3 YPC, caught 56% of passes...
Of course this was with Joey, now with MIA, Joey has a 6.09 YPA, and 59% comp and what has our #1 WR accomplished with him?
after 7 games with Joey, he had 12.17 YPC, and caught 39% of his passes...
So we can continue to blame Joey but the stats above don't follow the Detroit trend... it shows another issue or at least it kind of eliminates him from this current CC issue...
bakedmatt
I drink your milkshake!
Disnardo said:
Hey, where is it showing that Chambers has caught 39% of passes thrown from Joey?
bakedmatt said:
They are attempts not neccesarily catchable but plays intended for the reciever that were not completed for any number of reasons, running the wrong routes, not getting open, dropped passes, and yes even poor throws. Now by comparison Chambers stats are laughable compared to the other recievers you mention:
(Att/Yards/TD's/ Comp %)
Terrell Owens
121 915 8 57%
Steve Smith
107 958 6 62%
Chris Chambers
122 611 4 43%
Look it up... I took every gameday stat from NFL.COm play-by play... and came up with the numbers... here is a thread of mine from last week...if you don't believe me go ahead and take a few hours to look it up...bakedmatt said:
Link to Thread: http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=172151
Some of the post recently has shown some curiosity on weather Daunte or Joey help the the Dolphin's receiving corp... so I seperated the 1st 4 games of the season with Daunte and the other 7 games with Joey...
I laid out the "thrown to" as attempts, completions, and "yards per catch" (YPC)...
The 1st 4 games "on left" and last 7 "on the right"...
Wes= 26 att, 18 comp, 222 yds (12.33)-39 att, 26 comp, 255 yds (9.8)
Caught 69% of passes thrown to.........Caught 67% of passes thrown to
Cris= 39 att, 16 comp, 181 yds(11.31)-59 att, 23 comp, 280 yds (12.17)
Caught 41% of passes thrown to.........Caught 39% of passes thrown to
MB= 21 att, 11 comp, 173 yds(15.72)-40 att, 25 comp, 342 yds (13.68)
Caught 52% of passes thrown to.........Caught 63% of passes thrown to
Ronnie= 18 att, 18 comp, 143 yds(7.94)-14 att, 10 comp, 111 yds (11.1)
Caught 100% of passes thrown to........Caught 71% of passes thrown to
Randy= 17 att, 10 comp, 113 yds(11.3)-42 att, 28 comp, 256 yds (9.14)
Caught 59% of passes thrown to..........Caught 67% of passes thrown to
Just giving more light to all the QB, receivers questions...
bakedmatt
I drink your milkshake!
bluehaze said:
I wouldn't be surprised if you proved to me that Smith and Owens are better at getting open, I know they're better receivers. I'm suggesting that the plays that Chris has run are lower-percentage and that the QB is innaccurate.