Barry Jackson: Dungy and JT Criticize Philbin | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Barry Jackson: Dungy and JT Criticize Philbin

hooshoops said:
i do think the eagles system is a qb friendly one...hell sanchez not looking terrible in it tells me as much also...but the one miamis running is qb friendly to me also...tannys not setting up protections as much etc...this SHOULD be an easier one for him to operate in...but somethings definitely a miss so far

maybe it just needs time...we'll find out
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Has Sanchez played in a regular season game under the offense?? I don't recall he has. Don't worry the real Sanchez will show if he's thrown out there.
 
joeharley666 said:
Has Sanchez played in a regular season game under the offense?? I don't recall he has. Don't worry the real Sanchez will show if he's thrown out there.
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that's true too and even with his preseason run he still did some dumb things...despite the numbers...i just think you can hide his weaknesses more in that o...same for foles etc
 
ConvenientTruth said:
We also don't have Chip Kelly teaching it either...
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I think people have given up on Lazor too early. Issues with the Lazor offense? Yeah. I was kind of bummed with some things I saw in the play design, and the slow tempo does the team no favors, IMO. They need more chances, not fewer. It's not as if we're turning the ball over at a crazy clip...

... Lazor was brought here to fix Ryan Tannehill and it's a work in progress. Saw it in the practice reports yesterday "working heavily on footwork."

Meh.
 
His coaching decisions, game planning, in game adjustments, bizzare motivational tactics and uninspiring tone should be enough to get him fired regardless of what RT does.
 
ConvenientTruth said:
We also don't have Chip Kelly teaching it either...
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People don't understand how critical and accurate this statement is. Chip Kelly is the innovator of his offense. The only thing an assistant can go teach elsewhere are the concepts. Just like the only thing a Saban disciple can go teach elsewhere are some of Saban's pattern-match concepts, but he can't teach it like Saban.

One of the biggest keys to Chip Kelly's offense in terms of tempo is when to run tempo, and at what pace. Oregon had 3 speeds of HUNH offense under Kelly. You can't teach another guy how to have your feel for when and how to vary it.

Furthermore, Kelly's system is only QB friendly in theory. This quarterback must be in tune with making these adjustments to pace and tempo. Chip Kelly's system stresses decision making, and tests it to the brink in terms of who the quarterback is keying on. This changes too. There are multiple keep/hand-off/throw options for the QB to choose from on a single play. He has to make this choice correctly in a split second after the ball is snapped. Precisely an aspect of quarterbacking that Ryan Tannehill has always struggled with.

He's the type of quarterback that is best when the defense makes it simple for him by showing him where to go with the football pre-snap. Tannehill is best when he can identify single coverage pre-snap. If that changes post-snap, it forces him to come off his initial progression and go to the next. This is always where he has struggled, among other significant areas that are the same weaknesses he had coming out of college that I documented in detail with my Final Word.
 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
I think people have given up on Lazor too early. Issues with the Lazor offense? Yeah. I was kind of bummed with some things I saw in the play design, and the slow tempo does the team no favors, IMO. They need more chances, not fewer. It's not as if we're turning the ball over at a crazy clip...

... Lazor was brought here to fix Ryan Tannehill and it's a work in progress. Saw it in the practice reports yesterday "working heavily on footwork."

Meh.
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Your Arians quote is exactly what I expect from the Dolphins this year. Fans don't have the patience necessary these days nor the understanding of the undertaking it takes to implement a new offense. Personally I see it as a Madden/fantasy football disease.
 
i'm finding when tannehill holds the ball the most in this offense it's off of play action...when the reads should be easier...i get the multiple quick reads in a short time frame from kellys offense and making quick decisions but i don't see signs that he's making the wrong decisions out of them...ie keep or hand off to the back or pull it back etc...and there's a lot of predetermined throws to the perimeter etc and built in bubble screens etc all predicated off what he sees presnap...i do think i see evidence of him staying on his first progression too long and not coming off and i do think that is a function of what he's done for the last 5 years...making so many presnap reads and working off of them...

so does it become a thing where we just have to wait for him to get comfortable or is he just incapable of adjusting to it...is he a fish out of water in this offense for the long term
 
Sons of Shula said:
Ignore the media. Twisting words and speculating ideas with out any gumption behind them.

We shouldn't be surprised the RT has taken a few steps. We like to imagine that he would step seamlessly into a brand new offense but that's not reality. No one wants to hear that RT and the offense needs more time to gel with new schemes because of the immediate gratifications that society now serves to us but it's the truth. Now the truth in whether Philbin and Tannehill will succeed as move further into the season is yet to be told but any assumptions this early is simply foolish.
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Yes to this^^^

Also,
Philbin has a job to keep, and not just for himself, but doing his job as HC of the Dolphins and getting his team squared away.
He needs Tannehill to get a gut-check ASAP and this is one way of doing it. Tannehill has been the starting QB since he got here. Sure, he knows he needs to get better, but he's also continued to play badly week after week despite knowing this. This isn't like RT has only played one bad game and now Philbin is after him. This is like his 5th-6th bad game in a row! He plays well in practice, and then stinks it up on Sunday.

Honestly, I think Philbin is doing it right no matter how negative or brash this looks, or what the media is saying. He's sending a message that if you want to be the guy on Sunday, you need to be better than the other guys on Sunday.
 
hooshoops said:
i'm finding when tannehill holds the ball the most in this offense it's off of play action...when the reads should be easier...i get the multiple quick reads in a short time frame from kellys offense and making quick decisions but i don't see signs that he's making the wrong decisions out of them...ie keep or hand off to the back or pull it back etc...and there's a lot of predetermined throws to the perimeter etc and built in bubble screens etc all predicated off what he sees presnap...i do think i see evidence of him staying on his first progression too long and not coming off and i do think that is a function of what he's done for the last 5 years...making so many presnap reads and working off of them...

so does it become a thing where we just have to wait for him to get comfortable or is he just incapable of adjusting to it...is he a fish out of water in this offense for the long term
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You're correct in your observation regarding Tannehill holding the ball too long off the zone read fake, because he doesn't process the information fast enough post-snap. The trick to Chip Kelly's offense is that the defense can never be right as long as they're not winning at the LOS... there's too many options for the football to go on a single play. If the offense is struggling, it's because they're getting whipped at the LOS, the QB isn't making the correct reads, or not making the correct read fast enough.

Tannehill's decision making isn't his biggest flaw. It's making the correct decision fast enough. Anybody can get better at it, but processing information quickly has never been Tannehill's strength. It never will be.

You're incorrect in terms of the bubble screens being predetermined throws. The bubble screen is merely an extension of the running game. The bubble is built in as an option as opposed to running IZ into an 8 or 9 man box. The defense tells the offense what to do. He's letting the defense dictate where the ball goes because they can never be right. That's the beauty of it.

As you know, most zone read offense leave the EMOL unblocked and this is the guy the QB "zones" or reads. Kelly's offense changes who's unblocked or who's getting "zoned" (read).
 
what i mean by predetermined throws is if he is gonna throw the ball the built in bubble screens are where it's going based off what he sees from the defense...not he's auto going to that...so i guess in that regard predetermined would be the incorrect term for me to use

i get that the decisions are post snap quickly being made...everything predicated off of what the defense does
 
hooshoops said:
speaking of the hartline penalty after the td i know i saw a similar situation play out in another game i was watching this weekend either the seahawks broncos the sunday nighter or the monday nighter and no call was made on it...

but thats hartline for ya...rarely sniffs the end zone so when he does on a well designed play more than anything he's got to do some demonstration instead of act like he's been there before
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On the Hartline penalty, it wasn't so much the put, but the guys lining up to watch. It looked rehearsed.
 
LANGER72 said:
On the Hartline penalty, it wasn't so much the put, but the guys lining up to watch. It looked rehearsed.
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It did look rehearsed, I agree.

Hartline doesn't score much so he likes to put on a show when he does.
 
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