Belichick Pulls Brady, Starters Before 2min. Warning.

[MarinePhinFan]

Peyton does not have to do more- he TRIES to do more but he doesn't need to do more. Like I explained, the difference in PA btw the 2 Ds in postseason is less than 2 PPG. It's not like Manning is losing 38-34 shootouts, he guides his O to less than 14 PPG in their 8 playoff losses and has only led his O to more than 20 points in ONE playoff loss.

It doesn't matter how many drives have been TD drives, he's gotten the job done. The one time he led a late, long TD drive his D blew it. Peyton has never had that happen to him.


Belichick only faced Montana led teams in postseason 3 times and they knocked him out of 2 of them including the '90 title game that he left SF w/ a lead in. In '85 and '86 SF didn't have great teams and Montana was having injury problems(he only played 8 games in '86). BB was on the staffs when SF beat the Giants in '81 and '84.

Better than BB in just 3 games against montana look up BB's coaching record w/ and w/o Brady and let me know what you find. Also, BB had never reached a conf title game w/o Brady, Tony Dungy made one w/o Peyton.


So if the magic has so much to do w/ Adam Vinatieri why does Peyton only have 1 title w/ him? Brady set up his kicker to make kicks and he made them. You can blame the kicker all you want for '05 vs. pitt but on 2nd and 3rd and 2 Manning took shots at the EZ instead of moving the chains and getting in better FG position. Brady would move the chains. In SB XXXVIII AV missed 2 FGs yet Brady still got him in position to kick the GW.

Show me the playoff losses that peyton has done all he could but other parts of the team collapsed.

PPG difference is only 2? You think I wouldn't check your stats? You're a liar.

:lol2:

Colts D gives up 22 PPG on average in post season

Pats D gives up 17 PPG on average in the post season.


Your entire post is whimsical. You either avoid my stats facts all together or you comeback with facts that have been cherry picked. I've provided ALL the stats for both QB's and there just isn't a difference in the post season between the two. Other than their defense, coaches and FG kicker. I've also shown that when Manning plays poorly, the Colts usually lose. When Brady plays poorly, the Pats usually win. That's because the Pats have had the better TEAMS nearly every year.

Cassel, who hadn't played football in 6 years was able to nearly get his team to the playoffs and win 11 games (with an 8th ranked defense mind you. Remember, Brady has never won more than 10 games with a defense ranked less than 6th). The Pats system is very QB friendly.

Manning, Favre, Rivers, McNabb, Big Ben, Palmer, Hasselbeck, Warner, Brees, Bulger or E. Manning could have all won Super Bowls with this pats team. Brady is another Troy Aikmen. Nothing more.

 

[MarinePhinFan]

He broke the single season TD record and didn't play more than half his games in DOMES.


You are right, Moss made Brady which is why he won 3 SBs w/o him and has yet to win one w/ him. You are talking about making someone look stupid?:lol2:

You are stupid. You can't comprehend. I said Moss made Brady. I never said Moss made the Patriots. Teams win SB's, not QB's. Brady's average season mirrored Cassel's season with the Pats. Look it up.

The Defense and Belichick have made the Patriots.

 

[nyjunc]

PPG difference is only 2? You think I wouldn't check your stats? You're a liar.

:lol2:

Colts D gives up 22 PPG on average in post season

Pats D gives up 17 PPG on average in the post season.


Your entire post is whimsical. You either avoid my stats facts all together or you comeback with facts that have been cherry picked. I've provided ALL the stats for both QB's and there just isn't a difference in the post season between the two. Other than their defense, coaches and FG kicker. I've also shown that when Manning plays poorly, the Colts usually lose. When Brady plays poorly, the Pats usually win. That's because the Pats have had the better TEAMS nearly every year.

Cassel, who hadn't played football in 6 years was able to nearly get his team to the playoffs and win 11 games (with an 8th ranked defense mind you. Remember, Brady has never won more than 10 games with a defense ranked less than 6th). The Pats system is very QB friendly.

Manning, Favre, Rivers, McNabb, Big Ben, Palmer, Hasselbeck, Warner, Brees, Bulger or E. Manning could have all won Super Bowls with this pats team. Brady is another Troy Aikmen. Nothing more.

AGAIN you are just looking at a boxscore, how about digging deeper into the boxscore? Why does the Colts D get responsibility for Manning INTs for TDs or KRs for TDs? Go back, check all the postseason games, remove the scores that didn't come against the Colts D and let me know what you find.



Cassell was in that system for years and against a creampuff sched he won 6 less games than Brady did the previous year and this year cassell already has led KC to more wins than they had all of last year and they have 5 games left to play.


the Pats system is very QB friendly which is why that system has won so many SBs w/o Brady, right?



Please stop. NE was a sinking ship before Brady rescued them. Switch Manning and Brady and Indy has 3-4 SBs this decade while NE would be lucky to have one.

 

[nyjunc]

You are stupid. You can't comprehend. I said Moss made Brady. I never said Moss made the Patriots. Teams win SB's, not QB's. Brady's average season mirrored Cassel's season with the Pats. Look it up.

The Defense and Belichick have made the Patriots.

Again, enough w/ the childish insults.


What you fail to comprehend is the QB position is about much more than meaningless reg season fantasy stats. How many SBs was that team winning before Brady started playing?

The defense and Belichick made the Pats, how many SBs have they won w/o Brady?

 

[DuderinoN703]

I wouldn't mind having either QB on the Dolphins :up:

 

[Tailgater]

First, thanks to Bta for backing up the message I was trying to get across about Bandwagoners. Fans like Tom are part of the "old school" Patriots fan base that I can respect. Sure they hate us, but they suffered through the tough times like the God-Awful McPherson teams from the early nineties.
We kicked them around a little in those days and this decade it's been their turn for the most part ( we have managed to inflict a few painful upsets lol).
It's the other guy - you know the one that traded in his Marshall Faulk jersey for a Tom Brady after SB XXXVI. I hate that type of "fan" lol.

So basically you're saying any Pats fan under 30 is a bandwagon fan? That works for every team, doesn't it? In our case, there's a lot of truth to it. I cringe when Ithe idiots booed last season while Miami smacked them at home. They left in droves at halftime. They wouldn't have been fans in the 70's or 80's.

I'll cut them some slack though. When they grew up, watching the Pats and Red Sox winning championships, it must be hard for them to adjust to less than perfect results.

I have a friend that says hes a fins fan. So are his sons. Yet every time I invite him to a game when the fins are in town he refuses. Is he bandwagon?

As to using message boards to measure a fanbase, please.

I live & work in Foxboro, among fellow m*******s, the majority of them are pat fans. Most have been to a game or two or three, and all watch them when they're on tv, but I doubt many have ever been to any type of message board, never mind an nfl board.

 

[Batroc]

So basically you're saying any Pats fan under 30 is a bandwagon fan? That works for every team, doesn't it? In our case, there's a lot of truth to it. I cringe when Ithe idiots booed last season while Miami smacked them at home. They left in droves at halftime. They wouldn't have been fans in the 70's or 80's.

Huh?- You know the old saying about what happens when one assumes?...Well that's what you are doing here. Please show me where I said any Pats fan under the age of 30 is a bandwagon fan. If you grew up rooting for the Patriots, well that's awesome...good for you.
The point I was trying to make ( which most understand, but some seem to have taken exception to) is that the Pats fans who've suffered through the bad times have earned the right to enjoy their team's success, even if that means coming here and making us eat a little crow every now and then.
The breed of Patriot fan I have a problem with is the type that was a Rams fan at the turn of the century, and a Broncos fan before that, a Cowboys fan before that and so on. If you're not that guy I don't really see the problem- unless of course you are looking for message board drama lol.

 

[TB12]

Are you serious???? :lol2: Have you ever been to the Patriot's Planet web site? They don't have anywhere close to the amount of fans that Finheaven has, nor the amount of posts that FH has. They also only have maybe 5-10 forum posts in the forum main page on any given day that have anything to do with football. There is no comparison when discussing any Pat's fan forum page to FH in terms of the amount of posts or the type of analysis you get of these two teams.

maybe because pats planet isnt the biggest pats site. So the "cheatriots" "Belicheat" "Brady is a ***" threads consist of better analysis than our board? lmao what a joke. We actually talk about football and not childish bull****. This is one of the better boards I've seen but the same **** I see at gangreen applies to here. Only other side I'm registered to is here.

 

[TB12]

You are stupid. You can't comprehend. I said Moss made Brady. I never said Moss made the Patriots. Teams win SB's, not QB's. Brady's average season mirrored Cassel's season with the Pats. Look it up.

The Defense and Belichick have made the Patriots.

Brady finally gets a #1 WR and completely shatters the record book. Yeah no.

 

[AphexPhin]

Brady's wife is pretty good looking IMO.

 

[MarinePhinFan]

Brady finally gets a #1 WR and completely shatters the record book. Yeah no.

Again, what records did he "shatter"?

Besides one more TD than Manning and 2 more than Marino, what numbers are you referring to? NFL MVP's? NOPE. Pro Bowls? NOPE. Super Bowl Rings? NOPE. Most wins? NOPE. Most YPA? NOPE. Most yards in career? NOPE. Most career TD's? NOPE. Want me to go on?

Cassel with this SAME team last year through 11 games- 7-4
Brady with the SAME team as last year through 11 games- 7-4

2008 defense ranked #8. 2009 defense ranked #7.

Brady = Troy Aikmen. An average to good QB who had the luck of falling in the lap of a great organization, coaches and team.

 

[MarinePhinFan]

Looking at this from another perspective: How does each team do when they score a certain number of points?

In Brady's 17 playoff games they have been held under 14 points twice and are 0-2 in those games. They have scored 15 to 21 points 5 times and are 5-0 in those games. When they score 22 to 24 points they are 4-0. When they score over 24 points they are 5-1. The notion that the Pats are routinely scoring 30 points to win playoff games is provably false.

Now for Manning...the Colts have been held under 14 points 3 times and are 0-3 in those games. They have scored 15 to 21 points 4 times and are 1-3 in those games. They are 1-1 when scoring 22 to 24 points. They are 5-0 when scoring 25 or more points.

In review, both QB's came up short when their teams scored less than 14 points and dominated when they scored 25 or more points. The difference is when the Pats scored 15 to 24 points they are 9-0, while the Colts are 2-4 when they score 15 to 24 points. In Tom Brady's 14 playoff wins he has had to score 25 or more points 5 times. In Manning's 7 playoff wins, the Colts scored 25 or more points 5 times.

When Brady fails to lead the Pats to 25 points the Pats still win 82% of the time. When Manning fails to lead the Colts to 25 points, they win only 22% of the time.

Again, this proves that Brady has had more help during the off season.

 

[TB12]

Again, what records did he "shatter"?

Besides one more TD than Manning and 2 more than Marino, what numbers are you referring to? NFL MVP's? NOPE. Pro Bowls? NOPE. Super Bowl Rings? NOPE. Most wins? NOPE. Most YPA? NOPE. Most yards in career? NOPE. Most career TD's? NOPE. Want me to go on?

Cassel with this SAME team last year through 11 games- 7-4
Brady with the SAME team as last year through 11 games- 7-4

2008 defense ranked #8. 2009 defense ranked #7.

Brady = Troy Aikmen. An average to good QB who had the luck of falling in the lap of a great organization, coaches and team.

Can you read? Need hooked on phonics? Why the **** are you talking about his career stats? Was I?

He has had a crap WR core his whole career and finally gets a good core in 07 and SHATTERS THE RECORD BOOK. He is the best QB in the NFL Bar none.

Mannings cant play in bad weather.
Has always had a good WR core
7-8 in the playoffs, Brady is 14-3
Brady has a higher PR in the playoffs.

Nice sig, probably the best night of your life. That's the sad part.

 

[MarinePhinFan]

Can you read? Need hooked on phonics? Why the **** are you talking about his career stats? Was I?

He has had a crap WR core his whole career and finally gets a good core in 07 and SHATTERS THE RECORD BOOK. He is the best QB in the NFL Bar none.

Mannings cant play in bad weather.
Has always had a good WR core
7-8 in the playoffs, Brady is 14-3
Brady has a higher PR in the playoffs.

Nice sig, probably the best night of your life. That's the sad part.

You sound mad.

Again what record or records did Brady shatter in 2007? What record or records has Brady shattered in his career?

I'll wait...

Brady had a "crap" WR corps? Really? Then who caught all those passes?


Manning can't play in the cold?

January 11, 2004- 22-30, 304yds, 3 TD's, 0 INTs, 138 QBR in KC, MO. You think is wasn't cold that day? The low that day was 19 and the high was 28.


No, the Colts are 7-8 in the playoffs and the Pats are 14-3. Both of their QB's have played pretty much identical in those games even though Manning was under far greater pressure because of the p1ss poor play of their defense. Have you NOT read anything I've posted? Your drivel and homerism is quite funny. I have offered NOTHING but objective facts and stats and you've thrown out the old, "Because I said so" argument. You lose.

Brady has a higher PR? What is a PR? Passer rating? You mean QBR? You mean the 88 for Brady and 86 for Manning? Is that tiny difference what you're making your case with?

Brady isn't even the 3rd best QB in the league right now much less the best. He is Troy Aikmen and Bob Griese reincarnate.


Manning's 2 NFL MVPs > Brady's 1

Manning's 7x time All-Pro > Brady's 2

Manning's 9 Pro-Bowls > Brady's 4


Now, I'm sure you'll come back with TEAM accomplishments, like Super Bowl wins. Morons usually do, but you're wasting your time. Individual accomplishments outweigh team accomplishments when trying to argue which individual was better.

Now, if you want to make the argument that the Pats have had the better TEAMS this decade, I'll agree. The objective stats and facts are there.

 

[nyjunc]

You sound mad.

Again what record or records did Brady shatter in 2007? What record or records has Brady shattered in his career?

I'll wait...

Brady had a "crap" WR corps? Really? Then who caught all those passes?


Manning can't play in the cold?

January 11, 2004- 22-30, 304yds, 3 TD's, 0 INTs, 138 QBR in KC, MO. You think is wasn't cold that day? The low that day was 19 and the high was 28.


No, the Colts are 7-8 in the playoffs and the Pats are 14-3. Both of their QB's have played pretty much identical in those games even though Manning was under far greater pressure because of the p1ss poor play of their defense. Have you NOT read anything I've posted? Your drivel and homerism is quite funny. I have offered NOTHING but objective facts and stats and you've thrown out the old, "Because I said so" argument. You lose.

Brady has a higher PR? What is a PR? Passer rating? You mean QBR? You mean the 88 for Brady and 86 for Manning? Is that tiny difference what you're making your case with?

Brady isn't even the 3rd best QB in the league right now much less the best. He is Troy Aikmen and Bob Griese reincarnate.


Manning's 2 NFL MVPs > Brady's 1

Manning's 7x time All-Pro > Brady's 2

Manning's 9 Pro-Bowls > Brady's 4


Now, I'm sure you'll come back with TEAM accomplishments, like Super Bowl wins. Morons usually do, but you're wasting your time. Individual accomplishments outweigh team accomplishments when trying to argue which individual was better.

Now, if you want to make the argument that the Pats have had the better TEAMS this decade, I'll agree. The objective stats and facts are there.

Wow! One good game in the cold against the 29th ranked defense and a franchise that has a grand total of 3 playoff wins since 1970.

Actually, the morons recite the meaningless regular season fantasy #s where Manning plays at least half his games in dome every year. Those that understand the game discuss how those QBs play when it matters most and when it matters most Brady has been the much more successful QB despite never having half the offensive talent around Manning has had w/ the exception of 2007.