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Best FA QB to pursue

I agree re Mark Brunell, but more than anything where he stands out above Garcia is his deep arm strength and accuracy.

Before this past season Garcia has been pretty durable, in 2000, 2001 and 2002 seasons, each having 16 starts, before dropping to 13 in '03 due to injury. With Brunell's # of games missed over the same stretch, I'd say that makes them fairly equal as for projected durability.

Another point about Brunell, he is actually 7 months younger than Garcia, so I do not see how anyone could say that Garcia is a viable option and Brunell is too old and washed up, or sentiments to that effect. Remember Garcia played for several years in the CFL and if you combined his attempts with both leagues, probably has more attempts and wear and tear on his body over his pro career than Brunell. Although in his defense I will say that Garcia is as much a weight room junkie as any QB in the league, which helps his longevity.

Having a real deep threat at QB such as Brunell, who can hit an open reciever in stride deep or on intermediate crossing routes, would help our OL and running game, even if there were no personnel changes, although there most certainly will be.
Heck, even if we kept the same 4 WRs that we ended the last season with at the top of the depth chart, they would look and be much more effective with Brunell throwing the ball.
 
Originally posted by MrClean
I agree re Mark Brunell, but more than anything where he stands out above Garcia is his deep arm strength and accuracy.

Really???....How's that???:rolleyes:

I guess all of those deep TD's over the last few years to WR T. Owens were just a mirage huh???... :lol:

Brunell vs Garcia??? All I need to do is look at career TD's in order to make my choice between those two. Garcia is a superior QB in every aspect IMO....

Brunell would be an upgrade over Fiedler, but that's not saying much. Brunell has only thrown 20 TD's once during his 11 year career. Weak. Garcia averages almost 30 TD's a season!!!.....

How can you pass up on that???...

PHINZ RULE!!!:fire:
 
BLITZKRIEG Brunell has been consistant and has pretty good bettr that Fiedler. But if you are going out to spend money on a qb go out an get the best. That is Between Brunell and Garcia who ever they sign I will be happy.

You made a good point on Garcia's #'s that is good almost 30 TD's a year and alot of yard pass and run. He broke some 49er's QB single season records that is passing Montana and Young that is impressive. He just needs to stay away from the injuries and get his back better this offseason

Brunell or Garcia would be fine. I think Brunell wants Miami more than Garcia does.
 
Why is it this board gets tunneled vision on one position, without really looking at the real problem area, last it was Griese, this year draft a rookie and get Brunnel..so when do we address the heart of our OL, which make the leader of O better.
 
Originally posted by Noland
I think Brunell wants Miami more than Garcia does.

So does Fiedler. But that doesn't automatically make him the best option at QB does it???....

Brunell would certainly be cheaper, but just like the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for".....

PHINZ RULE!!!:fire:
 
MDFINFAN yes we thought Griese could get it done but the O-LIne was better last year look at Williams and Fiedler stats they were better Williams alot better and Fiedler a little better. No one thought that the Line would have injuries and play this poorly. Griese could play with a line he proved that in Denver his first couple of years. But you cant play a qb that has to have the best line in the league he dont move around enough.
 
Originally posted by MDFINFAN
Why is it this board gets tunneled vision on one position, without really looking at the real problem area, last it was Griese, this year draft a rookie and get Brunnel..so when do we address the heart of our OL, which make the leader of O better.
this thread is about QB (at this pt. Brunnell vs Garcia) and we will more than likely have a new starting QB in Mia so this is a huge pt of discussion.
 
Originally posted by Blueprint_21
please everyone get off MB nuts. he's to old and was BENCHED after they saw Leftwhich play (when mb got hurt, and in BL first game he had 425 yards and 2 TD).

Remember....

Everyone was on Grieses ***.....

No one who comes in here will be successfull unless 2 things happen.

1. The O line is improved, or should I say revamped.
2. The Dolphins get a 2nd WR that can catch.
3. The Dolphins get a slot reciever that can catch.

I am positive if Brunell comes in as the QB, Thompson wouldn't be able to catch from him, as he couldn't with Jay.

Do I want Jay gone? Nope, I would love to see Jay back up someone. But I would rather those three issues above be addressed FIRST.
 
Originally posted by Noland
MDFINFAN yes we thought Griese could get it done but the O-LIne was better last year look at Williams and Fiedler stats they were better Williams alot better and Fiedler a little better. No one thought that the Line would have injuries and play this poorly. Griese could play with a line he proved that in Denver his first couple of years. But you cant play a qb that has to have the best line in the league he dont move around enough.

Yes some did think the OL was in trouble, me, we had dicussions about it all TC and preseason, I thought it was the biggest mistake we made this offseason no addressing it. I hear you D39, I'm attempting to change the conversation to what I think is the biggest problem on this team..OL..and lack of production, even with Ricky's breakout first year, it was a lot on him to do the breaking out, he broke a lot of trackles to get the yards he did. I'd thought we would upgrade the OL this year. instead we kept the starters and sign no vet backups, plus lost Dixon as a starter..major mistakes. Some will say the asking price for the OL we wanted was too great, I say restructure the D's contracts to get enough to pay for some O. Period
 
Blitz, Brunnel threw for 20 td's twice.....19 two other times......

Lifetime QB rating: Brunnel 85.2 Garcia 88.5

I don't see where you see this great difference between the two.......

Brunnel throws a better deep ball........PERIOD.

I go with Brunnel.

You go pay an additional 2 million a year for 3 points on the QB rating......I just hope they don't hire you as GM.
 
Originally posted by Section126
Blitz, Brunnel threw for 20 td's twice.....19 two other times......

Lifetime QB rating: Brunnel 85.2 Garcia 88.5

I don't see where you see this great difference between the two.......

Brunnel throws a better deep ball........PERIOD.

I go with Brunnel.

You go pay an additional 2 million a year for 3 points on the QB rating......I just hope they don't hire you as GM.

Now add in the fact that Garcia had a great supporting cast and coach in SF while Brunell had neither, and we have our clear choice. Brunell to the Phins!
 
Originally posted by BLITZKRIEG


Really???....How's that???:rolleyes:

I guess all of those deep TD's over the last few years to WR T. Owens were just a mirage huh???... :lol:

Brunell vs Garcia??? All I need to do is look at career TD's in order to make my choice between those two. Garcia is a superior QB in every aspect IMO....

Brunell would be an upgrade over Fiedler, but that's not saying much. Brunell has only thrown 20 TD's once during his 11 year career. Weak. Garcia averages almost 30 TD's a season!!!.....

How can you pass up on that???...

PHINZ RULE!!!:fire:


Brunell had 20 TDs in two seasons, 1998 and 2000. For what it's worth, he also had two seasons of 19 TD passes each.
Garcia btw, averages 22.6 TD passes per season, which is the higher of the two, but it is not "almost 30"

As for Yards Per Attempt, which could be a better measure of deep passing ability, Brunell is at 7.08, Garcia is at 6.95.

As for TD passes per game, yes Garcia does have an advantage,
Brunell has 144 TDs in 122 games, which is 1.18/game
Garcia has 113 TDs in 74 games, which is 1.52/game

As for mobility, Brunell has a rushing average of 5.1, Garcia has an average of 4.9. Brunell rushed for a first down 33% of the time, and Garcia 34%.

Basically, what all the numbers look like is one will have a slight advantage by one measure, and the other will have a slight advantage by another.

As for Garcia and his long completions to Owens, of course they were not a mirage, and I never would say they are, but without the numbers available for yards gained after the catch, all we can go by is what we have seen and how we remember it. In the West Coast Offense, it appears to me that Owens, as with Rice before him, gains a high pct of his yards after the catch, turning short and medium completions into long completions that on paper do not look any different than if the QB would have thrown the ball the entire distance and the WR just caught the ball and was tackled. This benefits the stats for the QB on yards per attempt. Brunell didn't play in the same offense in Jacksonville did he?
What I have seen from Brunell, when it comes to how far he can throw the ball, to make a long completion, he has a superior arm to Garcia.
Really, while Garcia does have more TD passes per game, how in the world is number of TD passes a measure of arm strength?
It is not at all. How many were 10-15 yard TDs?

Also, in published reports, such as The War Room puts out every year through The Sporting News, one comment their scouts made on Garcia was that he "does not have prototypical arm strength for a starter". In his defense, he does have many positive attributes they mentioned, such as accuracy, mobility, pre-snap reads, etc...but we are talking mostly arm strength right?

Regarding Brunell they said: "Throws a catchable ball and puts receiver in good position to make the catch", and "can drop the ball over the top of a secondary." Those, to me, are two areas where Fiedler was definitely lacking

You prefer Garcia for the reasons you've mentioned, I prefer Brunell, but I hope we can both agree that either one would be a significant upgrade from what we've had the past 4 seasons.
 
Originally posted by BLITZKRIEG
I don't think QB is the Phinz #1 priority this off-season. It's a close 2nd behind the OL though....

If M. Brunell is the best FA QB available, we're in trouble. There's a reason why rookie QB B. Leftwich is starting in Jacksonville. QB M. Brunell isn't getting it done anymore....

I don't want him. He's certainly not much of an upgrade if you ask me. He may be an upgrade over Fiedler, but that's not saying much when you think about it....

We need a mobile, accurate QB. I'd like to see QB J. Garcia in Miami personally. He's got a strong arm, he's accurate, and he plays with determination. He could also use a change of scenery. He's a guy who can make things happen....

PHINZ RULE!!!

:fire:

The reason why Brunell wasn't starting was because Del Rio knew they weren't going any place witht that team & since Brunell got hurt they figured to give Leftwich the opportunity to learn on the field.

Garcia does NOT have a strong arm, ask any Niners fan. He has an arm a little better than Fiedler's.

Brunell is "garage sale" material at this point in his career IMO. I'd rather spend the money on OL, and keep Fiedler than waste it on a very minmal upgrade like Brunell. I just can't see him helping our offense that much....

How is Brunell garage sale material & Garcia isn't? Garcia is older than Brunell.

Brunnel BTW, throws a better deep ball than Garcia.....has less injury problems.....is more mobil......equally accurate and cheaper...........

Garcia is more mobile but Brunell is more accurate & may be cheaper since he's already gotten a big contract.

Brunell would be an upgrade over Fiedler, but that's not saying much. Brunell has only thrown 20 TD's once during his 11 year career. Weak. Garcia averages almost 30 TD's a season!!!.....

You blame that on Coughlin. Coughlin prevented Brunell from becoming great.
 
Originally posted by Blueprint_21
please everyone get off MB nuts. he's to old and was BENCHED after they saw Leftwhich play (when mb got hurt, and in BL first game he had 425 yards and 2 TD).

Mark Brunell is 7 months younger than Garcia. If one is too old, then both are too old. Neither is, for that matter

In Brunell's limited action of 2003, he had a QB rating of 89.7, 2 TDs and no ints, a 65.9 completion pct. He was not benched for poor play. Jax is a team that is rebuilding and Leftwich is their future franchise QB, it only made sense to get him on the field.

Leftwich's QB rating was a very Fiedler like 73. Which Jax QB played the best in 2003? Not the most, but the best?
 
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