Blitzing/Norv Turner.

[PHINFAN4LIFE]

Originally posted by Merman


So with all the talent the Dolphins have they should have been the #2 D in the league instead of #3.

Which coaches are making fun the the Fin's D scheme??? Are they from the other two teams who did better or was it from all the other 29 who came out worse last year??? I don't know of any profession who makes fun of their colleagues who are considered at the top of the field.

That was an absolute cop out Merman. Barbarian is full of it! Yeah coaches from the #'s 1 & 2 defenses were having a roast on the Dolphins #3 ranking. Wanny was there and Spielman, but Bates couldnt make it, he was at home following BARBARIANS posts, trying to find a better scheme than last years!

This may be the most realest thing you may ever hear homeboy, the coaches job ends at the white stripe called the sideline, after that its up to the players to EXECUTE! If the scheme works the first 15 games, you run it til it doesnt work anymore! And to answer the sarcasm, no, other coaches have absolutely no knowledge of whats running through our defensive coordinators head at any given moment!

 

[IceStorm]

You may be right.

 

[XoPhinsoX]

I thought Dolphins D did end up #2 last year?

Who was #2? Philly?

Philly blitzes like 53% of the time or something like that.
I enjoy watching their games from time to time.

 

[PHINFAN4LIFE]

Originally posted by IceStorm
You may be right.

No, no Ice, you may be right

 

[wahwee]

New England can't go downfield, because Brady doesn't have the arm strength for it. They spent the whole game throwing screens and such. We were stopping them until the last 5 min.

Come to think of it, we got burned alot by screens. Is that Bates' fault, as well? Or is it that some of our players (eg rodgers, Greenwood) aren't aware enough to sniff out screens?

It must be Bates! The players can't be the problem.

 

[Da 'Fins]

We definitely need to "spice" up the defense. We are way too "vanilla." I think the reason the D breaks down at the end of the year is that teams know exactly what they will get and they are able to exploit the weak areas. They are able to isolate and attack us one on one - with our weakest positions. If we mixed up the schemes more and presented a variety of different looks (ala Belichick), we'd be deadly. I think if Belichick were the coach, our defense would be the best in all of football, bar none. I also think our players are smarter than what we scheme with and could handle changes.

If we waste Seau by making him play one little area and never turn him loose, I think fans will be ticked off. The media will question Seau, if he isn't making big plays - when they likely should question Bates'. Things need to change this year, or Wanny will be gone. I say that, though I'm not in the anti-Wanny camp as yet.

On Turner - I think if the team performs poorly enough that Wannstedt is fired, then the whole staff will be fired. I can't imagine Turner having a great year as OC, and the team doing really poorly. I also think that we will try to bring in some new blood if this staff doesn't get the job done.

If the team does well - look for Turner to be gone b/c he'll be on several "A" lists for head coaching spots.

 

[Barbarian]

Originally posted by Merman


So with all the talent the Dolphins have they should have been the #2 D in the league instead of #3.

Which coaches are making fun the the Fin's D scheme??? Are they from the other two teams who did better or was it from all the other 29 who came out worse last year??? I don't know of any profession who makes fun of their colleagues who are considered at the top of the field.

Don't look at the overall numbers like that, they get skewed when we slaughter some of the weak teams on the schedule.

Bill Bellicheck said that our Scheeme was "Easy to figure out" and Mike Tice said in an interview after Minnisota took advantage of that great Defensive scheeme that "Miami's defense has holes in it that you can exploit because they never adjust"

Theres quotes from 2 coaches, the 2 that took Miami out of the playoffs.

#3 Defense is a seriously skewed stat, there are 2 types of statistics, Lies and Damned lies. The fact is that teams figured us out, and Bates never ever adjusted.

The guy has been handed one of the most talented Defenses in the history of the NFL, and he set them up for failure at the end of the season.

Oh, nd Nobody in the NFL considers Bates the "Top of his field."

 

[Barbarian]

Originally posted by PHINFAN4LIFE


That was an absolute cop out Merman. Barbarian is full of it! Yeah coaches from the #'s 1 & 2 defenses were having a roast on the Dolphins #3 ranking. Wanny was there and Spielman, but Bates couldnt make it, he was at home following BARBARIANS posts, trying to find a better scheme than last years!

This may be the most realest thing you may ever hear homeboy, the coaches job ends at the white stripe called the sideline, after that its up to the players to EXECUTE! If the scheme works the first 15 games, you run it til it doesnt work anymore! And to answer the sarcasm, no, other coaches have absolutely no knowledge of whats running through our defensive coordinators head at any given moment!

Well, well well... somebody that obviously doent understand the concept of evolution... you wnt to know the difference between Miami's Defense and Tampas Defense (I mean other than over 100 points allowed)

Tampa actually changed their scheeme a bit and adjusted when people figured them out. People figured out Bates, and just like Head Coaches in the NFL Bill Bellicheck and Mike Tice mentioned he never changed and thus the only thing going for the D was the talent, because the D scheeme wasn't there.

Make all the excuses for Bates that you want, but many in the league consider the guy a joke.

 

[Barbarian]

Originally posted by XoPhinsoX
I thought Dolphins D did end up #2 last year?

Who was #2? Philly?

Philly blitzes like 53% of the time or something like that.
I enjoy watching their games from time to time.

Carolina was #2 last year. (That should tell y'all something about how misleading theese stats are)

Philly was actually #4.

Which Defense would you rather have? Philly's or Carolinas?

me too... Kinda makes what theese other guys say about the #3 defense sound silly doesn't it?

Gotta look a little deeper than the box scores folks... if they actually watch the games they might learn a thing or two.

 

[Barbarian]

Originally posted by wahwee
New England can't go downfield, because Brady doesn't have the arm strength for it. They spent the whole game throwing screens and such. We were stopping them until the last 5 min.

Come to think of it, we got burned alot by screens. Is that Bates' fault, as well? Or is it that some of our players (eg rodgers, Greenwood) aren't aware enough to sniff out screens?

It must be Bates! The players can't be the problem.

In the last 5 minutes they did start going downfield more. Just like the jets did on the final drive where our vanilla D got exposed to Penningtons "weak" arm that went deep on us.

Actually the main problem with screens falls on the shoulders of our OLB's (that and the cover 2 naturally has a bit of a poblem with screens.

 

[wahwee]

The reason that we lost that Jets game was because Surtain, our probowl corner let Coles (I think) get behind him, and Marion was late getting over. I wouldn't consider that Bates' fault when you're scheming to keep everything in front of you, yet your probowlers fail to execute.

I don't have any documented proof, but I do believe that most of the yards gained by NE at the end were still to rbs and short passes, we just choked trying to stop them.

I know what is happening here. Everyone loves to look for a scapegoat, and Bates is the scapegoat du jour (actually has been for a couple years). It's alot easier to blame 1 coach, and believe that the players aren't the problem, than to look at some players and see that they are not executing at crucial points in games.

These are the type of players who are incapable of taking it to the next level. We do have a handful of those, and it is hard to accept that maybe we can't win without a major changeup. I believe that we are challenging these players properly, and we have already replaced several over the last few years. Whether we have done enough yet is open to argument, but, believe me, a coaching change with our personnel does not equal #1 defense and/or Superbowl.

Showing some cojones and lining up and beating the man across from you equals #1 D/Superbowl, regardless of scheme.

 

[rafael]

I believe we need to vary our schemes more and most importantly adjust when an O is killing us. I'm not sure, however, that increased blitzing is the panacea that posters on this thread imply. Miami's base D doesn't rely on blitzes much, but it does allow very aggressive reads. That's why Zach excels (in part) b/c when he recognizes what the O is doing the scheme permits him to disrupt the play. Even Greenwood had some great run stops for no gain last year that were the result of aggressive reads. I really haven't noticed Rodgers doing that. My hope is that Seau, who is so aggressive, will flourish in this D. The result may be more stops behind the line b/c of fast, aggressive reads rather than increased blitzes.

The scheme change I would like to see is more zone coverage and zone/man combos. IMO the majority of the players on our D would excel in zone. My only concern is Madison. He is not a great physical speciman at cb. He succeeds b/c he is smart, studies alot and has great technique. He overcomes his lack of great speed by bumping, jostling (ok, some holding) and anticipation. (That's why he has trouble with Moulds b/c Moulds is strong enough to fight through the contact.) I think Madison should be able to play in a zone b/c of his great anticipation, but he seems to lose his aggressiveness in zone schemes. If he can overcome that then we could be very effective switching periodically to zone.

 

[Merman]

Originally posted by Barbarian

Don't look at the overall numbers like that, they get skewed when we slaughter some of the weak teams on the schedule. #3 Defense is a seriously skewed stat, there are 2 types of statistics, Lies and Damned lies.

Well those are the numbers everyone looks at and is judged with. If you want to talk about weak teams then how about the NFC South where Tampa plays. How about the NFC East where Philly plays??? If total yards bothers you how about 4th in the league in points allowed per game. Is that skewed too??? Then there is no way to judge performance in the NFL until every team plays each other during the season and you know that's not going to happen.

Originally posted by Barbarian
Bill Bellicheck said that our Scheeme was "Easy to figure out" and Mike Tice said in an interview after Minnisota took advantage of that great Defensive scheeme that "Miami's defense has holes in it that you can exploit because they never adjust"

Theres quotes from 2 coaches, the 2 that took Miami out of the playoffs.

The fact is that teams figured us out, and Bates never ever adjusted.

Miami has played the same defense since JJ came to Miami. So these geniuses have finally figured it out??? Big deal what they say. Miami has been a consistent top 5 defense no matter what anyone says. But if you like quotes how about JJ." Defense is not rocket science."

Originally posted by Barbarian
The guy has been handed one of the most talented Defenses in the history of the NFL, and he set them up for failure at the end of the season.

Oh, nd Nobody in the NFL considers Bates the "Top of his field."

What difference does being handed a very talented team have to do with anything. Nothing. This is one of the most talented defense in the league and they perform that way. Your statement of Bates setting up the defense for failure is very disingenuous. Everyone saw the games and the players were in position to make the plays. The players didn't make them. If you don't realize Bates is tops in his field that's your problem because you don't know what people in the NFL think.

 

[Barbarian]

Originally posted by Merman


Well those are the numbers everyone looks at and is judged with. If you want to talk about weak teams then how about the NFC South where Tampa plays. How about the NFC East where Philly plays??? If total yards bothers you how about 4th in the league in points allowed per game. Is that skewed too??? Then there is no way to judge performance in the NFL until every team plays each other during the season and you know that's not going to happen.

Did you just call the NFC South weak?

ummmm... okay... And I guess the AFC West was a weakling division as well huh?

Miami has played the same defense since JJ came to Miami. So these geniuses have finally figured it out??? Big deal what they say. Miami has been a consistent top 5 defense no matter what anyone says. But if you like quotes how about JJ." Defense is not rocket science.&

JJ's Defenses were eeing compared to shulas Defenses, back then the Offense was still supposedly our salvation with Marino leading the charge, now this eam is soposed to be a defensive minded team, instead of being thrilled that we have a top 10 D now we have to realise that the current strategy (which has changed considerably since JJ's first days) requires a dominating Defence. This Vanilla D doesn't cut it in todays NFL.

What difference does being handed a very talented team have to do with anything. Nothing. This is one of the most talented defense in the league and they perform that way. Your statement of Bates setting up the defense for failure is very disingenuous. Everyone saw the games and the players were in position to make the plays. The players didn't make them. If you don't realize Bates is tops in his field that's your problem because you don't know what people in the NFL think.

his is one of the most talented Defenses in the league, then why is it that they collapse nearly every time they run into a team with solid offensive talent? Every team capable of stretching the field did so at will on us. Thank god Jerry Rice and Tim Brown are old or else Oakland would have exposed Bates Defense as well.

You can argue with other coaches, and former players turned sportswriters all you want, the fact is that Bates D was resposable for such ingenious matchups as Fletcher covering guys like Marvin Harrison and Randy Moss.

Yeah, it's the players that play the game, but the coaches can set the players up for success, or they can doom them to falure, and Bates unwillingness to adapt his D scheeme when teams figure him out dooms the Phins D to failure. (Just like in Minnisota and New England)

 

[Merman]

You really have to come off it. Miami has one of the best D's in the league no matter how much you bellyache. You have have lost all creditability now.

BTW what were you trying to say :

JJ's Defenses were eeing compared to shulas Defenses

eeing??? On second thought never mind.