Blitzing/Norv Turner. | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Blitzing/Norv Turner.

Originally posted by Merman
You really have to come off it. Miami has one of the best D's in the league no matter how much you bellyache. You have have lost all creditability now.

BTW what were you trying to say :


eeing??? On second thought never mind.
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excuse me BEEING! Of course you have never had a typo being Mr Perfect.

And your rediculous ostrich head theories about our D Scheeme destroyed your credability quite a while ago, but hey, whatever helps you sleep at night, some of us would rather face reality.
 
IT HAS TO CHANGE A LITTLE

This is a very good defense. And Jim Bates has probably done a better job than we give him credit for. But it can be better. And it starts with Jim Bates making adjustments (his GLARING weakness) and ends with players executing.

You can look at rankings all you want. But the fact is that Barbarian is right. Every team that CAN go down the field DID. This team CRACKED when the division and the playoffs were on the line. Sometimes it was the players' fault. Sometimes it was the coach's fault. But in this case, change starts at the top, because I don't feel that mental toughness/shapness was the problem. We've got all the talent in the world on this side of the ball. Championship talent. Talent that can execute.

Everything isn't hunky dorey. If it were, team CAPTAINS like Zach Thomas and Sam Madison wouldn't be crying out for SPECIFIC changes. Not big changes. But some wrinkles and alterations. That's how close this defense feels it is to success.

There are two things that Bates can do that would help in getting this team over the hump: Stop with the stupid blitzes and stop with the stupid Prevent Defense. AKA - Find another way to get it done.

I agree that we really don't need to blitz very often. Our pass rush is good enough to do it alone in most cases. But when you ARE gonna blitz, at least try and make it successful. Honestly, how many times did you see Zach blitz and think, "He's not gonna get there"......and Zach not get there?? Very often. The blitzing of Zach Thomas simply took our best coverage LB out of plays all year long.

And if we learned ANYTHING from the Tom Olivadotti era, wouldn't it be that the Prevent Defense PREVENTS you from WINNING?? Apprently this defensive coordinator doesn't subscribe to that theory.

The Prevent Defense hurt us the last two games in the 4th quarter (watch the tape and you'll see that God-forsaken thing show it's ugly head). It's not that Brady didn't have the arm to beat us deep (his arm is better than most give him credit for). The problem was that the Prevent allowed him to dink and dunk us underneath.

Our team plays lights out for 3 quarters and then collapses in the 4th. Just as we play awesome for 12 weeks and collapse the last 4. The common thinking here is, "We have to continue to be aggressive and strong-willed down the stretch.". Wouldn't that include being aggressive and not going into a shell down the stretch in an individual game (Prevent/letting up)??

This team won't succeed in the 4th quarter/December until it's defensive coordinator decides to challenge an offense for 4 quarters. After that, it's up the the players to execute.

Getting guys like Junior Seau and the competition going on at SLB will only help from an execution standpoint. In this area, I don't think Jim Bates should be faulted as much as Derrick Rodgers and Morlon Greenwood for what happened (or should I say "didn't happen").

Finally, in regards to Surtain letting Coles get behind him in the Jets game, you might want to read into Surtain's statements after the game......where, when questioned about what happened on that play, he replied, "I play the defense that's called".
 
Originally posted by XoPhinsoX
I was wondering if anyone here knew anything about our "scheme" for 03 on the Defensive side of the ball.
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Obviously not, just based on the few comments I have read.

This is not Jim Bates defense. His title as defensive coordinator is nothing but a token title. This is Dave Wannstedt's defense, and it resembles every defense he's ever coached.

This team isn't going to blitz more because Wannstedt just doesn't blitz his linebackers much at all.

The only thing that may change is that Junior Seau isn't going to play strictly assignment football at weakside linebacker. He's going to freelance, making some plays in the process while blowing some plays as well.
 
Re: Re: Blitzing/Norv Turner.

Originally posted by KB21

This is not Jim Bates defense. His title as defensive coordinator is nothing but a token title. This is Dave Wannstedt's defense, and it resembles every defense he's ever coached.
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But it doesn't appear that Wannstedt is calling the defensive plays on gameday. I disagree on the token title. He is much more involved than that. It's Wannstedt's base scheme. But Bates has a lot of leeway. Wanny ain't holding him back.
 
Re: Re: Re: Blitzing/Norv Turner.

Originally posted by Muck


But it doesn't appear that Wannstedt is calling the defensive plays on gameday. I disagree on the token title. He is much more involved than that. It's Wannstedt's base scheme. But Bates has a lot of leeway. Wanny ain't holding him back.
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well, bates ain't gettin it done!!!!!!!!!!!!:yell:
 
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Zach cant be the blitzer, he is the sieve at the end of the funnel, if you blitz Zach then your great D line penetrators have to hold back and contian for him, he does what is asked and fits that style.
Seau will get chances to blitz, same way that teams just dared ROMO to blitz (Denver was only team he answered that and blitzed, knokcing Griese out in process).
The NEW lb you got in draft round 2 is the key, he has the SPEED to play cover 3 drop like Tampa uses Derrick brooks, so when the team goes straight cover 2 presnap a guy like Moore drops the middle and takes out the crossing route, or forces enough air under the ball that someone on the next level make big hit or INT.

No need to blitz when the line does well. Your O went cold those losses, and needed to answer the call. Norve tried to do it passing, was always a play away and kept trying. This fan thought Ricky was due a gamebreaker in those times and wasnt given the chance.

Moore (with time) has the speed to rotate cover 3 from any lb spot, and Zach can instead take his option ( the third or fourth route in most plans: te, fb, or hb).


Cover 3 was the look you needed for change-up.
 
Always good to have you aboard....even if you are a serial killer. :)
 
i think the only thing that has to change about our defense is once were up big keep playing the same dont soften it up like he always does.
 
why does everybody...................

ignore the most important fact. BATES PLAYS PREVENT, THEN CALLS FOR BLITZ WHEN THEY NEED A STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:yell: you can't do both, ya leave the middle wide open!
 
If there is the question Bates will have to answer possibly only secondarily to how best to use Jr, it is how are you gonna get a consistent pass rush when every team decides to double team JT on every down. Bates had no answers ag. NE and that was (one big reason) why NE was able to have time to come back. Bates needs to have someone blitzing on JTs side constantly, but he cannot stick with the "our front 4 is betta than your pass protection" attitude like he did last year. For all his talk of L-T contracts, O-Gun could have proven his worth w/1 timely sack of Brady ag single coverage when it counted most, but could not.

Now Bates can play vanilla D ag the Texans and 'Boys and other pathetic O's, but when we play in our division, he needs to have some tricks up his sleeve to counter the other team's OC. It is not JTs job to provide a pass rush when triple teams it is the other 3 guys and the DCs job to make the O pay for ingoring them
 
Re: Re: Re: Blitzing/Norv Turner.

Originally posted by Muck


But it doesn't appear that Wannstedt is calling the defensive plays on gameday. I disagree on the token title. He is much more involved than that. It's Wannstedt's base scheme. But Bates has a lot of leeway. Wanny ain't holding him back.
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All I know is the Dolphins Blitzed a heck of a lot more than they ever did before last year. The problem was they were blitzing the wrong guys, and the blitz was useless basically.

Now with Seau I look for the Dolphins to allow him to blitz when he wants to. Seau can blitz and Zach can go out in coverage. As good a blitzer Rodgers was he is not half the blitzer Seau is.

Oliver...
 
Re: why does everybody...................

Originally posted by dolfan06
ignore the most important fact. BATES PLAYS PREVENT, THEN CALLS FOR BLITZ WHEN THEY NEED A STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:yell: you can't do both, ya leave the middle wide open!
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Exactly I watched the Broncos and the Pats game in New England games this last week and that't the biggest thing I noticed. Bates almost lost us the Broncos game because after they went up 21-11 or 12 whatever it was Bates went prevent 2 seriies in a row. Infact you could see how frustrated Surtain and Madison were while they were out there. I assume it was because of the plays that were being called.

Same thing with the Pats game when we got our lead he played mostly prevent and mixed in some blitzes out of the prevent package which made no sense to me at all.

Hopefully what Wanny says is true, they are not going to let up until the game is over this year. You could also see in those 2 games that the offense stopped calling what was working and went into conservative mode. Not a good thing.

Oliver...
 
Originally posted by Mr.Murder
Zach cant be the blitzer, he is the sieve at the end of the funnel, if you blitz Zach then your great D line penetrators have to hold back and contian for him, he does what is asked and fits that style.
Seau will get chances to blitz, same way that teams just dared ROMO to blitz (Denver was only team he answered that and blitzed, knokcing Griese out in process).
The NEW lb you got in draft round 2 is the key, he has the SPEED to play cover 3 drop like Tampa uses Derrick brooks, so when the team goes straight cover 2 presnap a guy like Moore drops the middle and takes out the crossing route, or forces enough air under the ball that someone on the next level make big hit or INT.

No need to blitz when the line does well. Your O went cold those losses, and needed to answer the call. Norve tried to do it passing, was always a play away and kept trying. This fan thought Ricky was due a gamebreaker in those times and wasnt given the chance.

Moore (with time) has the speed to rotate cover 3 from any lb spot, and Zach can instead take his option ( the third or fourth route in most plans: te, fb, or hb).


Cover 3 was the look you needed for change-up.
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:up:

Great post Mr Murder!!
 
Wannstedt and Bates will change things aroun on defense.. Madison and Zach Thomas already expressed their disguist and thoughts on the defense they play and Zach's quote alone says everything..
"Here in the Pro Bowl we can't blitz, play man to man and the defense is simple.. Much like our defense in Miami." The quote was somewhat like that.. So with that in mind, Wannstedt and Bates know they have to change it up...

HOORAH:drinker:
 
Re: Re: why does everybody...................

Originally posted by Oliver


Exactly I watched the Broncos and the Pats game in New England games this last week and that't the biggest thing I noticed. Bates almost lost us the Broncos game because after they went up 21-11 or 12 whatever it was Bates went prevent 2 seriies in a row. Infact you could see how frustrated Surtain and Madison were while they were out there. I assume it was because of the plays that were being called.

Same thing with the Pats game when we got our lead he played mostly prevent and mixed in some blitzes out of the prevent package which made no sense to me at all.

Hopefully what Wanny says is true, they are not going to let up until the game is over this year. You could also see in those 2 games that the offense stopped calling what was working and went into conservative mode. Not a good thing.

Oliver...
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i really noticed it in the KC game and the pats game. even in the pats game the announcers even said it was stupid. all i can think of is bates called a friggin blitz. linebackers don't do it on their own!:yell:
 
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