Boomer's Top 15

[Vendigo]

While Nelson does get caught up with attempting to make the big hit at times, he is very good at run support.

You've obviously seen more Gator games than I did (it's not as easy to keep up with all draft prospects when you're not living in the States), and maybe I've just seen the "wrong ones", but in the ones I saw, I can't fully agree to that assessment. I've always had the impression that he is a tad bit too hesitant and doesn't always recognize how a running play is going to develop. I've just seen some more instances of Nelson not going after the ball carrier quick enough than I'd like to see from a player ranked that high. That's not to say that he's a bad football player by any means. I just don't have him in the top 20 of my board, that's all.

I am not sure on what basis you say he lacks brains or is too ****y.

Well, the brains part is solidified by a lot of scouts who question his intelligence on and off the field. Obviously I can only comment on the on field part (and rely on what insiders say about the off field stuff), but consistently going after the big hit instead of making the easy tackle usually is a sign of either ****iness or a lack of game intelligence. It's like a running back who doesn't go through the hole because he wants to make another fancy cutback. Just not very smart.

However, that's what these forums are for - expressing your opinion. I enjoyed the debate.

Same here :)

 

[Vendigo]

I think Okoye and Branch both fit the bill

I'm not sure that they do. Branch's stock is falling rapidly (him sliding out of Kiper's big board is a bad sign - I don't think Kiper's a phenomenal draft guru, but he's got good sources) and there's a bit too much bust potential there than you'd like at #9. Okoye is a freak, but technically he's not an ideal 3-4 NT which is what we would need. You could argue with his age and the fact that he might be able to put up enough weight, but again you'd be facing a kind of gamble that you don't like to take with a top 10 pick - not when you could easily take a can't miss prospect like Carriker.

As I've said earlier, I don't see the type of DT we ought to be looking for in the first two rounds. I liked Branch a lot a couple of weeks back, but his workout and the fact that he seemed to have trouble during the interviews make me wonder. When you're drafting inside the top 10, you absolutely have to take a player who you're convinced will be a playmaker for you. And I don't think Okoye or Branch fit that bill. If I had to chose, I#d go with Okoye any day, though.

 

[BlueFin]

I'm not sure that they do. Branch's stock is falling rapidly (him sliding out of Kiper's big board is a bad sign - I don't think Kiper's a phenomenal draft guru, but he's got good sources) and there's a bit too much bust potential there than you'd like at #9. Okoye is a freak, but technically he's not an ideal 3-4 NT which is what we would need. You could argue with his age and the fact that he might be able to put up enough weight, but again you'd be facing a kind of gamble that you don't like to take with a top 10 pick - not when you could easily take a can't miss prospect like Carriker.

As I've said earlier, I don't see the type of DT we ought to be looking for in the first two rounds. I liked Branch a lot a couple of weeks back, but his workout and the fact that he seemed to have trouble during the interviews make me wonder. When you're drafting inside the top 10, you absolutely have to take a player who you're convinced will be a playmaker for you. And I don't think Okoye or Branch fit that bill. If I had to chose, I#d go with Okoye any day, though.

I wouldn't put a lot of stock into Kiper's "Helter Skelter" amazing shifting board, there has been way too much movement in it. Do not think all team boards will match Kipers. I'm not saying the guy doesn't know his stuff, but this year in particular his board seems to be blowing with the wind all over the place.

I'm not saying we should draft Branch or Okoye, but I don't think either would disapoint if drafted to play D-line here.

 

[Vendigo]

I wouldn't put a lot of stock into Kiper's "Helter Skelter" amazing shifting board, there has been way too much movement in it. Do not think all team boards will match Kipers. I'm not saying the guy doesn't know his stuff, but this year in particular his board seems to be blowing with the wind all over the place.

And that's usually a sign that team boards are moving as well. As I said, Mel Kiper isn't the best scout out there (he isn't even a good one in my opinion), but apart from Rick Gosselin, he's got the best sources in the business. If he has Branch falling out of his top 25, then a lot (not necessarily all, of course) of teams have him falling out as well.

It's not that unusual to see Kiper's board blowing with the wind (nice expression, by the way) that time of the year. That's usually when teams really dive into the scouting part, watching tapes, conducting interviews, grading players and such. There's usually a lot of similar movement in team boards - Kiper is just reflecting that.

I'm not saying we should draft Branch or Okoye, but I don't think either would disapoint if drafted to play D-line here.

I think Boomer nailed it by saying that Branch is somewhat of a gamble (which is why I think teams have him drop out of the top 20). He dominates in one game and does nothing in the next. Teams were willing to concede that he didn't have to do a whole lot in those games because he could rely on his bulk, but after Krumrie exposed his technical weaknesses (and rather poor way of dealing with hard coaching) at the Michigan pro day, I'd be surprised to see him go top 10. Technical issues with poor work ethic are what busts are made of.

 

[BlueFin]

And that's usually a sign that team boards are moving as well. As I said, Mel Kiper isn't the best scout out there (he isn't even a good one in my opinion), but apart from Rick Gosselin, he's got the best sources in the business. If he has Branch falling out of his top 25, then a lot (not necessarily all, of course) of teams have him falling out as well.

It's not that unusual to see Kiper's board blowing with the wind (nice expression, by the way) that time of the year. That's usually when teams really dive into the scouting part, watching tapes, conducting interviews, grading players and such. There's usually a lot of similar movement in team boards - Kiper is just reflecting that.



I think Boomer nailed it by saying that Branch is somewhat of a gamble (which is why I think teams have him drop out of the top 20). He dominates in one game and does nothing in the next. Teams were willing to concede that he didn't have to do a whole lot in those games because he could rely on his bulk, but after Krumrie exposed his technical weaknesses (and rather poor way of dealing with hard coaching) at the Michigan pro day, I'd be surprised to see him go top 10. Technical issues with poor work ethic are what busts are made of.

I don't think you've seen Boomer's board, or Boomer's opinions fluctuate to the extreme that we've seen Kipers jump around this year, and I guess we'll have to disagree about that but I've never seen Kipers board change so drastically three weeks before a draft.

What also should be kept in mind is that Kiper may be getting fed a bunch of propaganda about certain prospects that certain teams may want to see fall, one thing is for certain, the teams are better now than they've ever been about spreading misinformation, I highly doubt Kiper's sources are going to be more loyal to Kiper than the team they work for, and are going to willingly give him information thats hurts thier chances of getting the players they want.

 

[Vendigo]

and I guess we'll have to disagree about that but I've never seen Kipers board change so drastically three weeks before a draft.

I agree that this year seems to be an up and down for some players. And I'm not going to argue that Kiper is right with every projection, but I have a hard time thinking of a player that was drafted top 10 and wasn't on Kiper's board.

I highly doubt Kiper's sources are going to be more loyal to Kiper than the team they work for, and are going to willingly give him information thats hurts thier chances of getting the players they want.

Good point. But I don't think that any NFL-FO cares that much about Kiper's board. I'd be surprised if they read anything in a prospect moving up or down there. Take Rick Gosselin, for example. Teams obviously don't have a problem with feeding him absolutely accurate information on who they will eventually pick or have high on their boards.

 

[PHINSfan]

Simon thanks for all the info, once again you're the man!!!
And as far as Staley goes....there's a lot of talk about this guy down here in Davie, specially after the tremendous pro day he had. If they manage to trade down, then I trully believe he will be our guy. Or as Simon says:
He could very well be that guy at #9!

 

[BlueFin]

Good point. But I don't think that any NFL-FO cares that much about Kiper's board. I'd be surprised if they read anything in a prospect moving up or down there.

Which was exactly my original point, just because Branch has fallen off of Kipers board after being a top five, that does not mean he has fallen off the teams boards per say, he is a very big man who will clog the middle for somebody.

 

[MastR_EvaluatoR]

You've obviously seen more Gator games than I did (it's not as easy to keep up with all draft prospects when you're not living in the States), and maybe I've just seen the "wrong ones", but in the ones I saw, I can't fully agree to that assessment. I've always had the impression that he is a tad bit too hesitant and doesn't always recognize how a running play is going to develop. I've just seen some more instances of Nelson not going after the ball carrier quick enough than I'd like to see from a player ranked that high. That's not to say that he's a bad football player by any means. I just don't have him in the top 20 of my board, that's all.



Well, the brains part is solidified by a lot of scouts who question his intelligence on and off the field. Obviously I can only comment on the on field part (and rely on what insiders say about the off field stuff), but consistently going after the big hit instead of making the easy tackle usually is a sign of either ****iness or a lack of game intelligence. It's like a running back who doesn't go through the hole because he wants to make another fancy cutback. Just not very smart.



Same here :)

I agree .. The thing about Nelson I see is, he always seems a tad late to arrive in his coverages.. While Landry always seems to be there at the right time ..

I think Griffin and Merriweather will both be better safeties than Nelson..

 

[Vendigo]

Which was exactly my original point

No, not really. You argued that Kiper's board wasn't very representative for the invidual team boards, while I think (based on experience) that Kiper's board is in fact a very good indicator for where teams rank the top players. As I said ealier, you'd have a hard time finding a top 10 player who Kiper didn't have on his big board. If a players drops out, that's quite some reason for concern in my experience, as usually his top 20 players end up being the top 20 drafted (just not in the order Kiper thinks they will).

I'm saying that if the teams feed Kiper their information, why would they act upon information they provided themselves? Makes no sense to me. If a lot of teams had Branch ranked high, he'd be in Kiper's board. In my experience, it's really as simple as that (and the one real asset of Mel Kiper).

 

[Fingers]

I think Griffin and Merriweather will both be better safeties than Nelson..[/quote]

I can't speak to how well Griffin and Merriweather will play in the NFL, but I would say that you are certainly in the minority in saying they are better prospects than Nelson. For what its worth, most draft gurus think Nelson is either the #1 or #2 safety.

 

[BlueFin]

No, not really. You argued that Kiper's board wasn't very representative for the invidual team boards, while I think (based on experience) that Kiper's board is in fact a very good indicator for where teams rank the top players. As I said ealier, you'd have a hard time finding a top 10 player who Kiper didn't have on his big board. If a players drops out, that's quite some reason for concern in my experience, as usually his top 20 players end up being the top 20 drafted (just not in the order Kiper thinks they will).

I'm saying that if the teams feed Kiper their information, why would they act upon information they provided themselves? Makes no sense to me. If a lot of teams had Branch ranked high, he'd be in Kiper's board. In my experience, it's really as simple as that (and the one real asset of Mel Kiper).

Dude, consider that teams may want Branch to fall and are feeding Kiper crap, we don't agree, and thats ok.

 

[RichmondWeb]

T-Rock and Jim Miller interviewed Branch on Sirius today. He says he's being called out of shape for getting gassed on a 15 play drive in the 4Q. He says he is prepared to prove the "experts" wrong on the field. He also says he can play all DL positions and thinks of himself as the next Richard Seymore. Either way, teams looking for a big guy who can move will snag him if they get a chance. I think where he goes is more a function of who's picking where and what they need, rather than a dislike for Branch. Branch also got a ringing endorsement from opposing coach Pete Carroll who understands that all 330# players tend to get tired; but, he said his talents are special for his size.

RW

 

[RichmondWeb]

Boomer, today Schein and Wilcotts interviewed Jordan Palmer on the radio. He was exteremely impressive in his interview. He seems very familiar with the NFL and pages ahead of some other QB prospects (since he has hung around with his older brother Carson) and he is extremely smart and articulate. He said he went to UTEP so he could start as a frosh and to get out of Carson's shadow. The critics question his picks but, Palmer said they were just trying to convert third downs and he was just throwing where he was instructed to according to their scheme. Could this guy be another Carson Palmer to be had in round 2? (S.O.D!!!) What are your opinions of the second tier QB's? Thanks!

RW

 

[Finole]

This is how I see it on March 31st 2007. I refuse the right to change my mind

1. Calvin Johnson
2. Adrian Peterson
3. Brady Quinn
4. Joe Thomas
5. Patrick Willis
6. Adam Carriker
7. Ted Ginn Jr.
8. Gaines Adams
9. Amobi Okoye
10. Reggie Nelson
11. Jamaal Anderson
12. LaRon Landry
13. Darrelle Revis
14. Leon Hall
15. JaMarcus Russell

And if I was to take it to 20, my next 5 would be:

16. Chis Houston
17. Levi Brown
18. Jarvis Moss
19. Robert Meacham
20. Alan Branch

Where's Marshawn Lynch?