I refer to his era of glory...as the Scam Scameron era ?
Brian Flores COY
- Thread starter Gonzofinfan
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I refer to his era of glory...as the Scam Scameron era ?
I was wrong about him too. I couldn't be more happy that I was wrong. Part of me hated that we hired someone out of the Patriots tree. I remember when he was hired, I couldn't stop thinking about what Zach Thomas said after Parcells and Co. did him dirty and cut him. The Pats went after him hard in FA but he signed with the Cowboys. When asked why he didn't sign with the Pats, Thomas said something to the effect of: "You don't play those guys twice a year without learning to hate them."
I also just didn't think he was the right man for the job. I'd been burned by so many coaches I'd thought were the answer before, part of me figured this franchise would never get it together. But in retrospect, Flores was the correct hire. I'm glad Ross + Grier were at the helm and made the decision they did. I'm more than happy to eat my crow.
There's way too many instances of having a HOF QB and it not being enough to have team success. Drew Brees from 2007-2008, 2012, and 2014-2016. Dan Marino from 1986-1989. Aaron Rodgers in 2018 etc. Hell the Steelers beat the Titans in spite of Big Ben throwing 3 picks, beat the Browns with Ben throwing for 162 yards and 1 TD, and beat the Ravens with Ben throwing for 182 and a pair of TDs. While I'm not saying these are bad games (well barring the Titans games) these aren't strong performances in which he should get most of the credit for in getting the W.
Take away most teams starting QB and I suspect a significant amount will do worse than 8-8. The Steelers just last year went 8-6 without Big Ben including going 3-3 with an undrafted rookie 3rd string QB, who's to say they don't finish the season 10-6 or 9-7 if Rudolph had started the season.
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BennySwella
We need better LB's
No denying that but if they went 8 and 8 last year without big Ben doesnt that show more that they are undefeated because of big Ben not Tomlin?
Take Tua away from this team and we could still do well, take big Ben away from the Steelers and they are 8 and 8 again. Wouldnt that quantify better coaching on our side?
I know it isnt an exact science but it seems corelated.
dolphinsjayshaw
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COY should be the coach who has done the best with the players he has. And when you look at what we gave Flores, it is difficult to not view him as a definite front runner for COY. You look at a player like Ogbah, how many thought this was not a good move to get him, average player, underwhelming etc. But under coach Flores and his staff...wow! This same example is being seen with multiple players at multiple positions.
Don't get me wrong, we have some serious talent on this team, possibly (probably) the best one two combination of DB's in the league and others. But Coach is getting the best out of really every level of athlete on this team.
Don't get me wrong, we have some serious talent on this team, possibly (probably) the best one two combination of DB's in the league and others. But Coach is getting the best out of really every level of athlete on this team.
But they didn't go 8-8 without Big Ben. Rudolph went 5-3 and Hodges went 3-3 so they went 8-6 without Big Ben it was Ben in fact who was the only QB on the team who had a losing record last year at 0-2. Without Big Ben they managed to go 5-3 with a sophomore QB getting his first NFL action and 3-3 with an undrafted rookie QB. Take away Big Ben this year and maybe Rudolph with 8 games of experience from last year plays a little bit better this year. I don't think 8-8 is a forgone conclusion.
To me Flores will eventually surpass Tomlin and maybe everyone not named Belichick in a few short years but Tomlin going 8-6 with a 3rd round sophomore QB with 0 starts under his belt and a undrafted rookie is mighty impressive and proves he's not just riding Big Ben to success. I doubt the Steelers would be 8-0 but I could 100% see them being 5-3 (losses to Philly, Titans, and Ravens) with Rudolph especially if he improved upon last year.
Depends what you mean by "well" because without Tua I see them going 8-8 with Fitz since he is such a streaky player, you never know if you're going to get Fitzmagic or Fitztragic.
BennySwella
We need better LB's
All great points once again but they are a much better team than us and have been. Meaning their current record is not that much improvement this year specifically, while ours is exponential and quantifiable as better as far as improvement goes.
Flores took a bottom feeder team and has them 2 games over .500, Tomlin inherited a Superbowl winning team, turned it into an 8 and 8 team last year, and now has them doing well again. I feel like Flores is doing much more with less. While Tomlin is just maintaining a great team that had a formula for success before him, and will after him.
That's how you become a great HC, by playing the game like a chess master, and being steps ahead.
Many coaches just follow the HC manual of what to do for each situation, but the truely gifted know when to implement your own style on offense and defense that you saw, that will give you an advantage....That's what made Shula truly special, what he did on game day.
I agree with you on Tomlin, but lets not forget, Flores as HC For the 1st time, with the least talented roster, and an imconsistent QB won 5 games in the 2nd half of their schedule in 2019, including wins against the Colts, Eagles, and Patriots...all at their home.
Flores brilliance may have start much early then we thought or expected.
Discipline, accountability, attention to detail and preperation is what made Shula.
His gameday coaching was 100% by the numbers, and very conservative.
Which is funny, in an ironic way, because when Flo goes conservative, many ppl lose their minds and bash him for it.
BennySwella
We need better LB's
To be fair we are at our best when playing aggressively on both sides of the ball.
I agree with you that there were many layers to make Shula great, but Shula was not as conservative as you may think, the guy was as good a game day coach as there was.
Just because he did not always take chances does not mean Shula was Conservative, he just quickly assessed the situation like a master chess player, and made the call he thought was best to win.
Example: 1990 game, Monday Night, Miami winning by only a few points, with less then 2 minutes to play against the Browns...If I remember right, the Browns can tie the game with a FG, are on the 2 or 3 yard line. During that time, teams would not allow the opponant to score the TD, but Shula knew that the clock was going to run out, with the Browns eventually scoring that TD. Shula decided to allow them to score the TD (I remember the Commentators thinking that was a Risky and bad move with only a little more then a minute to have to score a TD to win).
Shula knew he had Marino, and that though it was risky, he believed it was his best move. Marino moved the ball quickly for a TD, and Miami won the game.
If you went into a game thinking that on game day Shula was not going to try to outsmart, and outcoach you, you were in for a very bad day.
Oh, he was smart for sure. The example you gave is an example of that.
By conservative, I didn't mean that he was averse to risk. Just unnecessary risk. When you are down and up against the clock, there isn't risk in taking chances.
I was thinking more along the lines of when Flo goes to the ground game with a multi score lead to eat clock, as opposed to letting the QB sling it all over the field. A lot of ppl see that as too conservative when, in fact, it is smart, and the correct thing to do in terms of winning the game.