Build Around Tannehill Or Make A Move At Quarterback?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by SF Dolphin Fan, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    Every season it seems like the Miami Dolphins are at a crossroads. It's been an unusual offseason so far, one where Adam Gase seems intent on getting his type of player. That leads to this major question. Does he feel good enough about Ryan Tannehill moving forward? That question really defines the direction of this team.

    With the Jets positioned to get one of the top three quarterbacks from the draft, the Bills vying to get up for one and with the Patriots somehow, once again, with a slew of early picks, this seems like a huge offseason for Miami. If both the Jets and Bills hit on the quarterback position, does Miami get left in the rear view window?

    I think it comes down to two things.

    1. Build Around Tannehill
    I was reminded recently that Tannehill went 7-1 in his last eight starts with Miami before the injury ended his season. Part of that success was due to the emergence of Jay Ajayi as he strung together a fantastic stretch with three 200-yard games. So it's obvious that Tannehill can be successful with a strong running game. This draft features some real talent at the position. Barkley figures to go before Miami picks, but a player like Guice could fit the bill. He's the type that the team could dictate the running game with. Perhaps the Dolphins could get him with a trade down. One of the top tight ends in round two and, at least on paper, Miami could finally have a complete offense with enough weapons and a decent offensive line to be successful. In this plan, the Dolphins draft a developmental quarterback maybe someone like White or Falk in round three.

    2. Upgrade at Quarterback
    This is the more difficult solution. There's no guarantees that any of the top quarterbacks in the draft will be an upgrade over Tannehill. Without trading up, Rudolph and/or Jackson both figure to be there at #11, although that's not a foregone conclusion either. I like Rudolph quite a bit, but not sure he has any traits that are above average, maybe his deep arm accuracy. He isn't necessarily athletic, but makes good decisions on when to run and gets some yardage. Jackson has elite athletic ability. He reminds me of Kaepernick. Nice deep arm, can get chunk yards with his legs, but won't beat you if forced to stay in the pocket. Could be a ROP star, adding a whole new dimension there. If Miami wants to trade up for one of the top four, not only will it be costly but they likely have less ammunition than Buffalo.

    What approach do you prefer?
     
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  2. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    No offense - personally I'd prefer no longer beating a dead horse
     
  3. LargoFin

    LargoFin Well-Known Member

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    They need to do both. Both are important. However, the QB position being the most important for variety of reasons, including production, long term success and stability, having an edge over the rivals, they need to grab the best QB when available as early as possibly. And when they get that QB, that does not mean they should get rid of Tannehill. they also need to build the team, of course, that's obvious.
    But, spending a high pick like 11 this year on a linebacker is ill advised when we are one of the teams not set at QB, we do not have a phenom, and multiple rivals in conference are looking for that QB. the pick should be Rudolph, to me it's as clear as daylight.
    Tannehill will start next year, they can build the roster with the other 7 picks and UDFA. If everything is good, Tannehill can start 2019 as well. If not, they'll have the QB to take over.

    Last year at 11, I would've taken Watson or Mahomes, and this year Rudolph at 11. And that is better than Charles Harris and Roquan Smith. It's better value, even if they do not see the field, it's money better spent, for all the possible reasons, because you can get those complementary pieces in later rounds.
     
  4. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I wouldn't touch Rudolph before the second round. I like him, but he'd be a huge reach at 11, IMO. A reach like that would only be acceptable for a team like Buffalo who doesn't have a starter for 2018 (not a fan of A.J. as a starter). Not a team like the Dolphins who has a capable starter and a huge list of priority needs.
     
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  5. Digital

    Digital Starter Finheaven VIP

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    Personally, I'd build around Tannehill, but there's no shame in taking a QB if you think he's the real deal.

    For me, the guy who proved he could run your offense well in 2016 after the team took 5 games to learn the system, is the guy I'd put my faith in. Having had the exact injury that Tannehill had, I know how tough it is. But, today's surgery means he'll honestly be as good as new. He didn't miss a single game from injury until he got hit low by the 330 pound Calais Campbell while his foot was planted. Not many guys walking away from that uninjured.

    So to me, his only blunder was not having the surgery. Personal decision. I made the same wrong choice the first time I was in his situation and my ACL inevitably tore the rest of the way. So, I get it. But with the luxury of hindsight, I now know surgery was the way to go. But, after the surgery, he'll be as good as new this year, no setbacks, and after he frees himself of the demons of being worried about it, he'll be back to firing on all cylinders. That's the QB that Gase wants and needs to implement his offense.

    Now with a better OL featuring a dominating LG in Sitton and a decent RG in Davis, plus an OK but dependable C in Kilgore, we'll be able to run the ball more than as a gimic or against bad run defenses. That balance will help thin the two-high safety look we face so often. The improved pass protection will ease the uber-tight coverage everyone was able to play against us so effectively, because there will be more time to let our speed merchants break open deep. And when the DB's play off a bit, there will be open guys to make the throw quicker. We'll miss Landry, no doubt, but with Grant, Wilson and Amendola, we'll have more speed after the catch and DB's will be more inclined to play off those speed merchants more, creating more space into which to throw.

    Sure, if Baker Mayfield falls to 11, it's something to consider. But, I think Gase knows the difference between his 10-6 season and his 6-10 season wasn't guys loafing and not studying after practice as much as it was missing 17 to cover those sins.
     
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  6. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Finheaven if the Fins draft Rudolph at 11...

    [​IMG]
     
  7. BigNastyFish

    BigNastyFish A True Fan

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    This is Ryan's year to assert his position as a difference maker @QB -- if he fails at that then not no one can consider him the answer moving forward.

    Regardless, we need to make a significant investment at the position via the draft for developmental and/or replacement reasons.
     
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  8. rickd13

    rickd13 Scout Team

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    Well said. Thank you.
     
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  9. mwestberry

    mwestberry FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I don't think this "horse" is dead...I think all of us fans have an opinion and are hoping for the right answers and are entitled to their thoughts in this forum...and, of course, we all are entitled to respond or ignore the posts...with respect

    I am still on the build the team and the QB will come theory...if we didn't have a capable starter then a QB at 11 or even a move up, if possible, would be the way we would have to go....as extremely important as the right signal caller is, we need to build our TEAM in order to be competitive and I want our team to be looking at potential game changing starters at 11 and 42...there isno sure thing but drafting a QB at 11 says to me our first round draft pick will not see the field (barring injury) for a couple of years (in theory)....

    Our team is not in a place where they can afford to sit idle with a first round draft pick and pass on a potential game changer (hopefully on defense) that should start day one and impact our team immediately...our team is also not ready to mortgage the future by trading away draft picks needed for talent and depth....

    A QB in the 3rd-4th to groom should suffice while we build a stronger team
     
  10. Fin Fan in Cali

    Fin Fan in Cali Joanne Shaw Taylor Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000925934/article/ranking-the-18-quarterback-classes-since-2000

    Ranking the 18 quarterback classes since 2000

    3) 2012


    Round 1: Andrew Luck (No. 1), Robert Griffin III (No. 2), Ryan Tannehill (No. 8), Brandon Weeden (No. 22)
    Round 2: Brock Osweiler (No. 57)
    Round 3: Russell Wilson (No. 75), Nick Foles (No. 88)
    Round 4
    : Kirk Cousins (No. 102)
    Round 6
    : Ryan Lindley (No. 185)
    Round 7: B.J. Coleman (No. 243), Chandler Harnish (No. 253)

    Had all gone right, this class had a chance to be remembered as an equal to the all-star cast from 2004 -- maybe even 1983. Andrew Luck is a plug-and-play Pro Bowler with incredible potential, but his career rests in a tricky spot after he missed all of last season post-shoulder surgery. Assuming he's back, Luck has the chance to be one of the game's true greats. A troubling case, Robert Griffin III was the most exciting quarterback in football during his rookie campaign. A knee injury changed his trajectory forever, but Griffin was also quickly exposed as a pocket passer. He's hoping for a comeback with Baltimore after spending last year in absentia. The Redskins missed on Griffin but ultimately found a starter in the same draft by nabbing Kirk Cousins in the fourth round. Who knew he'd become the prize of free agency in 2018 and Minnesota's hope for a Super Bowl crown? In Round 3, the Seahawks altered their franchise by taking a chance on Russell Wilson. Dinged by some for his diminutive stature, Wilson won the starting job in camp and tugged Seattle to a Super Bowl win during his sophomore campaign. Few players in the league are relied on more than Seattle's do-everything starter. Toss in Ryan Tannehill and Super Bowl LII hero Nick Foles, and this emerges as a wildly productive class, even amid the wreckage of Griffin, ultra-bust Brandon Weeden and the underwhelming Brock Osweiler.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  11. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    The good news is most here have civil discussions (which is why I'm here). The bad news is it seems it doesn't take long for those on the extremes to turn this in to a name-calling topic with (often) irrational comments. THAT is the dead horse I want to avoid. The OP seems focused on a reasonable question (make a move on a QB with no mention of R1). I agree on a lower round move. I dread seeing this become another 'Tannehill thread.'
     
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  12. rickd13

    rickd13 Scout Team

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    I believe they should kind of do both. I believe it is not time to trade away draft assets to move up to draft a QB, but if one is siting there at 11 and Gase believes in him I have no issue with it. The team has needed a talented young QB to develop for the past 4 years. All the stiffs they had behind Matt Moore just never made sense to me. Not one of those guys ever shown any attributes necessary do develop into anything. They were a waste of time and money. If, however, none of the QB's available at 11 excite Gase, draft the best player available and keep searching until value matches opportunity with the QB position. It can be in any round they see fit.
     
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  13. LoneStarPhin

    LoneStarPhin FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    1. QB is the most expensive and one of the most uncertain pieces to fit.

    2. RT has shown that he just MIGHT be one of the top 10 QBs in the league.

    3. There is a good chance he will return successfully.

    4. it would be foolish to move away from T Hill at this point when you can build so many other areas.

    5. If a qb falls in your lap for future development, great- go for it.
     
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  14. zach attach

    zach attach A True Fan Donator

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    What have you done for me lately.
    Forget the multiple coaches and numerous offensive scheme's early in Ryan's career.
    What has Ryan done for us lately?
    He found a groove and went 7-1.
    What evidence suggests that he doesn't build on that high watermark?
    Same coach, same offensive scheme.
    But add in a revised o line, 2 good receivers, Drake's abilities and Gore.
    Another year of watching film, absorbing Gases system and building a strong desire to return to the field, Ryan is set up for his Now Moment, the culmination of his experiences and abilities that led him to 2018.
    A slump this year is inexcusable. This is THE year for Ryan.
    As far as the draft, before Sitton I wanted Nelson if we kept Ryan as the QB for the next couple of years. And to be honest, I'd still love for Nelson to be here.
    So absent a QB or LG pick, I'd go defense. For now, I'd take Edmunds and be excited to see him work with Kiko and McMillan.
     
  15. Njphinsfan

    Njphinsfan A True Fan

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    I don't like any of the top QBs this year. Darnold and Rosen seem to be the only 2 that I feel will be successful. The rest, for me, are just iffy. Don't like Allen or Mayfield so I would absolutely build this team and fill our holes with Tannehill at QB. Let's see what he has, now that he is healthy. I liked the pick when we drafted him, felt we reached a bit but he was the guy to lead our team. I hate that we haven't gotten the chance, as fans, to actually see what he can do because of poor coaching and injuries. We're not winning a Super Bowl this year, so build up this team and give Ryan his chance.
     
  16. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

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    When did Ryan Tannehill show he can be a top 10 QB?

    You could say, at times, he played worse then a top 20. Can we see the guy earn his way back to the late '16 status he had around here...

    Jesus, sound so familiar to his draft day.
     
  17. gofins60

    gofins60 A True Fan

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    Personally, I wanted a complete rebuild for this upcoming season with Tannenbaum, Grier, and Gase all being replaced. But, since that's not going to happen, then I say give them one more year with Tannehill and improve the rest of the team. Should they do well, fine... although I'd still want Tannenbaum gone! Should they fall flat again, clean house completely, and give the new regime a chance to pick their own QB.
     
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  18. DuderinoN703

    DuderinoN703 We? What the **** we? Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Depends on if a franchise guy is available at a spot they don’t have to give up numerous picks to acquire.
     
  19. Ren

    Ren Rookie

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    Yes!

    Yes yes yes yes yeeeeeeeeesssss!!!

    Another Tannehill thread!!!

    YES!!!!!!
     
  20. RMLogic

    RMLogic Active Member

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    This must be the only place in the country where anyone thinks THill is any good. I just do not understand how some Fin fans defend this guy.
    He is not even in the top 20 QBs in the league.
    Every GM, scout, coach would take these 20 QBs over him without hesitation:Brady, Brees, Big Ben, Wentz, Wilson, Cam, Ryan, Rodgers, Luck, Mariota, Winston, Rivers, Stafford, Carr, Cousins, Watson, Flacco, Dak, Eli, Goff.
    Most would put THIll on par with Dalton and Taylor.
    And fans think they should build around him? A guy who has never won a playoff game or shown the ability to excel in the 4th quarter.
     
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  21. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    Not much if a RT guy, nor do I get wrapped up in this 7-1 talking points. It's like hearing the Pennington "most accurate QB in history " nonsense.

    But since i believe the current CS and FO, a long with ownership are all in on Tannehill...we will be witness to more rebuilding in search of a product that resembles something other than crap we've been given these past years.

    Ryan Tannehill will get a 10 year window in Davie.
     
  22. finmann

    finmann Pro Bowler

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    LMAO...you know it was bound to happen.
     
  23. Yessir

    Yessir Dolfan for Life Donator

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    Building around a player who can’t even make the pro bowl as an alternate is a laugher.

    Use the draft to unearth a hidden gem. Or we’re doomed to mediocrity.
     
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  24. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    You make it sound so easy... I mean, hey! I dont have a debt problem, all I gotta do is win the lotto and we'll be fine....
     
  25. Phindog

    Phindog A True Fan

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    I like our QB status this year way more than last year. Ryan's back and we'll definitely keep an eye out for a future star QB as we will every year.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  26. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs UCF 13-0 Finheaven VIP Donator

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    So you use a popularity contest to judge a QB?
     
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  27. AZStryker

    AZStryker Pro Bowler

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    A lot of those guys on your list are in the same non playoff win/4th quarter boat. Ironic post seeing you have “logic” in your username.
     
  28. Danny

    Danny Finheaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    We need to build around him like you would any QB but I'm ok taking a QB too if one we like is there when we pick
     
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  29. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Why is "lately" one and a half years ago?
     
  30. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla A True Fan

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  31. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    There are many ways to skin a cat but personally I like what Pederson did. And I think Gase has missed his window on drafting the QB of the future.
     
  32. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer Tape Guys vs Analytics Guys Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I'll say this, I don't care who the quarterback is, but we should build around them.

    And by 'build around them,' I mean certainly not whatever the hell we've been doing the last several years.
     
  33. Sherif

    Sherif Pro Bowler Donator

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    If they can get the right QB in this draft, then we may have Tannehills successor. I'd like a trade down to take a good QB prospect however my feeling tells me that Josh Allen will be somewhat successful. He has the physical gifts and he's one of the smartest QB's in the draft class based on the Wonderlic test scores. If Allen or Mayfield are not available, then it's Mason Rudolph who can be had with our 9th pick in the 3rd. After that our 31st pick in the 4th or any of our remaining picks won't land a QB worth drafting unless we get really lucky.
    • Josh Allen: 37
    • Josh Rosen: 29
    • Sam Darnold: 28
    • Baker Mayfield: 25
    • Lamar Jackson: 13
     
  34. RMLogic

    RMLogic Active Member

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    And all those QBs are better than Tannehill. You must not watch much football to think he is better. No one anywhere would agree with you.
     
  35. FinfanInBuffalo

    FinfanInBuffalo Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    You know EVERY GM, SCOUT, and COACH????? Can you get me some autographs?

    Oh, wait, were you just talking out of your butt?

    Let me know.
     
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  36. LargoFin

    LargoFin Well-Known Member

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    This owner deserves a big f u from the fanbase for his past ten years. This team has done absolutely nothing under his ownership. It has been garbage coaching, garbage GMing, garbage results, garbage product, and a big part of that is Ryan Tannehill and other garbage quarterbacking.

    Now, people say look at the 7-1. Let’s not throw awat the baby with bathwater! Okay, let’s see it one more year.
    But, If this team misses out this draft on a QB you can say goodbye to the next ten years and this owner might as well sell the team like Wayne. He made his bucks but he would have done nothing for football and deserves a F U again.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  37. superphin

    superphin close your eyes, see that? no your eyes are closed Finheaven VIP

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    Whoa you mean to tell me my lottery retirement plan is not viable?
     
  38. psfign

    psfign Guest

    Conflicted. It would be exciting to see if we draft an elite qb. But if we move up and they end up being worse than Tannehill, then we're moving backwards.
     
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  39. foozool13

    foozool13 #12 #13 #23 #29 #54 #99 Donator

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    He’s a middle of the pack guy who can get it don if everything else around him is going well, like an Alex Smith. I think we need to keep grabbing QBs until we get a true franchise QB.

    P.S. That knee injury was so ****ing painful. I finally thought he had turned a corner. Hope he can pick up where he left off.
     
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  40. GOfins54

    GOfins54 Well-Known Member

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    Ruldolph, a guy people have going in the 4th round at 11. More evidence of the low football IQ of the RT17 haters.
     

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