Calling Boomer and CK! | Page 12 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Calling Boomer and CK!

fishypete said:
O.K. so he went against one tackle that's projected to be a 2nd or 3rd rounder...and Otah...who ran a 5.50 40 at the combine. You do realize that his team played against 8 teams with a losing record.

Like I wrote...if you really look closely...he had a great last year...but before that he was nothing but average.
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Well when you play in the acc you play against above average players week in and week out, theres only a certain amount of highly rated tackles at the next level, but it doesnt mean that the rest of them suck. The acc is no sec but the level of talent is by no means chop liver.
 
I've been following this entire thread but been unable to post until my internet has been installed post-move. I'd rather we not have such an aggressive tone towards one another, after all, it's all opinions. With that in mind, this is my opinion and in no way meant to be negative towards differing opinions.

I look at the first pick a bit differently than most. As far as "value" goes, nobody merits this pick for the Dolphins IMHO. Similarly, I doubt there is a person who truly merits the selection for any other team, therefor I doubt anyone will allow us to trade down out of the pick ... in essence, my viewpoint is that accepting way less than the antiquated JJ draft value chart would be a good move, I'd take 2,000 points in value instead of the 3,000+ points the top overall pick is supposedly "worth." So yeah, I'd even take a trade with Dallas straight up for their 2 first rounders--but I'd obviously try to milk more out of it if possible.

That said, I expect us to be stuck with the top overall pick, so here's my thinking on who we pick. Parcells is rebuilding the Dolphins in his ultra-predictable mold of smash-mouth running offenses with heavy investment in his type of O-Linemen and a dominating 3-4 defense with space-eater D-Linemen and supermen Linebackers. I think that much is a given and I'll be truly shocked if that doesn't happen. I've been saying it since the day Parcells joined the Miami family and nothing I've seen contradicts that. In fact, every personnel appointment including each coach and FA supports it. Sooooooo, let's see who adds the most "value" to that system.

Parcells draft board is going to be much smaller than most teams boards because he's looking for people to fit a system. Dorsey, Ellis, Chris Long and Gholston are the elite defensive prospects, but none of them can play D-Line for our system. That rules out Dorsey and Ellis completely. C.Long and Gholston are projections to OLB and Gholston is a good fit there, but C.Long (whom I have loved since he was first recruited in high school by UVa and followed closely his entire career) isn't fast enough to be a good fit at OLB. So defensively, the only choice would be Gholston--who has the physical gifts unquestionably, but I'm just not sold on him being a sure-fire elite player.

Offensively, there are no franchise QB's IMHO ... sorry to all the fans of Matty Ice, he's not going to be the top overall pick of Miami, so unless we are able to trade down, he's not going to be a Dolphin. Personally I have Brohm as the top QB, he's more accurate and better at reading defenses, which are the two most important factors for translating college production to the NFL. RB's simply have too short of a lifespan, so while I think McFadden may be the most talented, he doesn't make sense for us, we have Brown and Parcells invests in lines not RB's ... so that position is out too. There are no top WR's even worthy of consideration. So offensively, that leaves the O-Line. In the NFL, C's and G's are easier to find, cheaper to pay, and have a smaller impact on the team than most other positions. By far the marquee position on the line are the T's, with the blind-side pass protector being THE superstar of that unit and where you'll never find a young FA and usually have to draft in the first round to get top quality. Luckily for us, this draft is deep in quality T's and several of them can play LT.

Personally I like Clady as the best LT, but I don't think he's ready yet to really star, which is fine for a rebuilding team, but not what you'd prefer in the top overall pick. Once he's coached up a bit, he's going to be a monster. There are several other potential monsters like Otah, Williams, etc. But personally, I'd rather take the guy who is already a monster, Jake Long.

Parcells is building a grinding football team. Long is a phenomenal grinding tackle who doesn't get injured, doens't draw penalties, blows even the strongest of players off the line of scrimmage, and who was accidently given the arms of Ralph Sampson (an old 7'4" tall UVa basketball player .... I'm saying Long's arms are freakishly long:D ). He doesn't possess the quickness and agility to handle the elite pass rushers like the Ogden's or Pace's of earlier years, but his physical gifts are good enough to do a good job in pass pro in the NFL. In the running game, he's pure dominance and even most good run defenses are weak if you can power run left on them. So, Jake Long looms as a fantastic player for the Parcells system for 10 years.

Is he "worth" the top overall pick? That's immaterial IMHO, we have the pick and unless we can unload it he's "worth" more to this system than any other player. Would Jake Long give us "value" for that salary slot? There aren't too many players who can justify that pick, QB's, RB's, OLB's, and LT's are positions that could do the best job of justifying the salary. Taking a D-Lineman in the Parcells system is a waste of money for your salary cap and a bad pick.

To me, it comes down to the solid pick of Jake Long, or the risky pick on Gholston. If I believed Gholston would be Derrick Thomas, he'd be the pick. But all I can think of is that he was playing on an unbelievably talented cast, given the best position in which to shine, physically overmatched 100% of the players he was pitted against, constantly in position to pin his ears back and pass rush ... and yet he didn't make as much impact on the football field as I would have expected and wanted. To me, he's a bit of a projection and a gamble. I don't want another Aundry Bruce ... and IMHO Gholston is no Bruce Smith or Lawrence Taylor type of difference maker. Personally, I'd go with Jake Long. Not because I think he's the best LT or pass pro or even player in this draft ... but because I think if we must pick #1 overall, he adds the most value to the Parcells system.

Yeah, I'd rather have Merriman, and maybe Parcells thinks Chris Long can become a Merriman. Maybe Parcells thinks he can turn a Gholston into a great one. But when it's all said and done, trading out of the top overall pick is our first choice but it's not possible. I think we take Jake Long, he's as effective in pass pro as Carey was or slightly better (but not an All-Pro), and he anchors what will eventually become a dominant O-Line that allows Parcells to do here what he's done elsewhere, grind enough clock and points to win games and make the playoffs. Making that move from a playoff treadmill team to a superbowl team will take more than Parcells.
 
nice write up digital. be interesting to see if our front office agrees
 
Digital said:
I've been following this entire thread but been unable to post until my internet has been installed post-move. I'd rather we not have such an aggressive tone towards one another, after all, it's all opinions. With that in mind, this is my opinion and in no way meant to be negative towards differing opinions.

I look at the first pick a bit differently than most. As far as "value" goes, nobody merits this pick for the Dolphins IMHO. Similarly, I doubt there is a person who truly merits the selection for any other team, therefor I doubt anyone will allow us to trade down out of the pick ... in essence, my viewpoint is that accepting way less than the antiquated JJ draft value chart would be a good move, I'd take 2,000 points in value instead of the 3,000+ points the top overall pick is supposedly "worth." So yeah, I'd even take a trade with Dallas straight up for their 2 first rounders--but I'd obviously try to milk more out of it if possible.

That said, I expect us to be stuck with the top overall pick, so here's my thinking on who we pick. Parcells is rebuilding the Dolphins in his ultra-predictable mold of smash-mouth running offenses with heavy investment in his type of O-Linemen and a dominating 3-4 defense with space-eater D-Linemen and supermen Linebackers. I think that much is a given and I'll be truly shocked if that doesn't happen. I've been saying it since the day Parcells joined the Miami family and nothing I've seen contradicts that. In fact, every personnel appointment including each coach and FA supports it. Sooooooo, let's see who adds the most "value" to that system.

Parcells draft board is going to be much smaller than most teams boards because he's looking for people to fit a system. Dorsey, Ellis, Chris Long and Gholston are the elite defensive prospects, but none of them can play D-Line for our system. That rules out Dorsey and Ellis completely. C.Long and Gholston are projections to OLB and Gholston is a good fit there, but C.Long (whom I have loved since he was first recruited in high school by UVa and followed closely his entire career) isn't fast enough to be a good fit at OLB. So defensively, the only choice would be Gholston--who has the physical gifts unquestionably, but I'm just not sold on him being a sure-fire elite player.

Offensively, there are no franchise QB's IMHO ... sorry to all the fans of Matty Ice, he's not going to be the top overall pick of Miami, so unless we are able to trade down, he's not going to be a Dolphin. Personally I have Brohm as the top QB, he's more accurate and better at reading defenses, which are the two most important factors for translating college production to the NFL. RB's simply have too short of a lifespan, so while I think McFadden may be the most talented, he doesn't make sense for us, we have Brown and Parcells invests in lines not RB's ... so that position is out too. There are no top WR's even worthy of consideration. So offensively, that leaves the O-Line. In the NFL, C's and G's are easier to find, cheaper to pay, and have a smaller impact on the team than most other positions. By far the marquee position on the line are the T's, with the blind-side pass protector being THE superstar of that unit and where you'll never find a young FA and usually have to draft in the first round to get top quality. Luckily for us, this draft is deep in quality T's and several of them can play LT.

Personally I like Clady as the best LT, but I don't think he's ready yet to really star, which is fine for a rebuilding team, but not what you'd prefer in the top overall pick. Once he's coached up a bit, he's going to be a monster. There are several other potential monsters like Otah, Williams, etc. But personally, I'd rather take the guy who is already a monster, Jake Long.

Parcells is building a grinding football team. Long is a phenomenal grinding tackle who doesn't get injured, doens't draw penalties, blows even the strongest of players off the line of scrimmage, and who was accidently given the arms of Ralph Sampson (an old 7'4" tall UVa basketball player .... I'm saying Long's arms are freakishly long:D ). He doesn't possess the quickness and agility to handle the elite pass rushers like the Ogden's or Pace's of earlier years, but his physical gifts are good enough to do a good job in pass pro in the NFL. In the running game, he's pure dominance and even most good run defenses are weak if you can power run left on them. So, Jake Long looms as a fantastic player for the Parcells system for 10 years.

Is he "worth" the top overall pick? That's immaterial IMHO, we have the pick and unless we can unload it he's "worth" more to this system than any other player. Would Jake Long give us "value" for that salary slot? There aren't too many players who can justify that pick, QB's, RB's, OLB's, and LT's are positions that could do the best job of justifying the salary. Taking a D-Lineman in the Parcells system is a waste of money for your salary cap and a bad pick.

To me, it comes down to the solid pick of Jake Long, or the risky pick on Gholston. If I believed Gholston would be Derrick Thomas, he'd be the pick. But all I can think of is that he was playing on an unbelievably talented cast, given the best position in which to shine, physically overmatched 100% of the players he was pitted against, constantly in position to pin his ears back and pass rush ... and yet he didn't make as much impact on the football field as I would have expected and wanted. To me, he's a bit of a projection and a gamble. I don't want another Aundry Bruce ... and IMHO Gholston is no Bruce Smith or Lawrence Taylor type of difference maker. Personally, I'd go with Jake Long. Not because I think he's the best LT or pass pro or even player in this draft ... but because I think if we must pick #1 overall, he adds the most value to the Parcells system.

Yeah, I'd rather have Merriman, and maybe Parcells thinks Chris Long can become a Merriman. Maybe Parcells thinks he can turn a Gholston into a great one. But when it's all said and done, trading out of the top overall pick is our first choice but it's not possible. I think we take Jake Long, he's as effective in pass pro as Carey was or slightly better (but not an All-Pro), and he anchors what will eventually become a dominant O-Line that allows Parcells to do here what he's done elsewhere, grind enough clock and points to win games and make the playoffs. Making that move from a playoff treadmill team to a superbowl team will take more than Parcells.
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Fantastic post bro! As far as the #1 pick and value go I totally agree. I do however believe that this year, because of the transparency that exists in Atlanta as far as their pick goes, and the fact that the Falcons are under the magnifying glass with the mistakes made by trading Schaub, then Vick going to jail, then Petrino quiting, then Parcells leaving town, then Rich McCay debacle, then goofy GM/coaching search....with no marque GM or coach to buy the franchise any relevance and time (like Parcells gives instant credability)...they HAVE to get a face of the franchise. They have NO identity. In most cases I would say thats ok. I don't think that's the case with Atlanta this year. Like the Vernon Carey pick with Rick Speilman - where he felt he HAD to give up a draft pick to get the guy, in the end, I believe it will come to pass that the same thing will happen to Atlanta. The threat of us taking Ryan or another team having interest will compel the Falcons to move up. It may be that Parcells accepts less than the "chart" for the deal. I do think that somehow the deal does come to pass tho. Again, under ordinary circumstances I think we get stuck with the pick. This year I think we end up at number 3.

Now from there the options don't change much. It seems that perhaps the only options for the Dolphins would be Gholston, Chris Long, Jake Long, and MAYBE Ryan Clady, or Derrick Harvey. The pick almost certainly is going to be EITHER the guy Parcells deems to be the best pass rusher in the draft or the best left tackle in the draft. It really as simple as that. I think your argument for Jake Long has legs, and as I've said before, if that's the pick - then I'm all for it, cause obviously Parcells has more info than I do. I do believe, however, that Gholstons body of work is strong, and with the fact he just lowered his 40 time to 4.58 (pro-day), which is absolutely astounding for a guy that benches 37 reps and weighs close to 270 lbs. He is a truly rare athlete, his college production was fantastic. The guy is a player. Parcells has also demonstrated in the past, his preference for the defensive side of the ball, and pass rush early in the draft. IN the end, I think he will be too difficult to pass up. That being said I will be happy with whoever we end up with!!!! Go phins!!
 
Thanks everyone for the thanks. :) Glad you liked hearing my perspective. I don't think we can go wrong with any of Jake Long, Chris Long or Gholston, they're all going to be very good players. But we still need 1 guard and 1 tackle minimum, so expect us to draft at least 2 offensive linemen total and add at least 1 more FA tackle. This draft is absolutely loaded with good OL and CB prospects.
 
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