Chase Young with 1st pick

[EJay]

Saw this today. It’s only two opinions, like any of ours, but count David Pollack and Todd McShay in the group that believe Chase Young is better than either Bosa brother.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Couple of knuckleheads that are always wrong and overhype players. McShay had Ryan Finley as a top 10 pick.

McShay even compared Terrell Lewis to Jevon Kearse. I don't care who says it or how many, I'll bet money against every single one.

 

[EJay]

Couple of knuckleheads that are always wrong and overhype players. McShay had Ryan Finley as a top 10 pick.

McShay even compared Terrell Lewis to Jevon Kearse. I don't care who says it or how many, I'll bet money against every single one.

Kinda figured you’d dismiss them. And perhaps you‘re right to do so. Who knows.

However, point again is, there are people that do this for a living and watch college players just as much as you guys do that see Chase a bit differently. You told me you weren’t convinced anybody saw it differently than you. These two obviously do. And I‘ve heard and read others that do as well. Joel Klatt is another off the top of my head. Those guys have said that they’ve talked to numerous scouts and GM’s that say the same. They can’t all be idiots to be easily dismissed!

Again, not saying you‘re wrong. Time will tell. But I am proving the point that there are numerous evaluators out there that see things differently both in Chase Young’s technique and ability and also in comparison to the Bosa’s.

Lastly, IDC what you or anybody else says, I know Joel Klatt to be quite a smart guy and while nobody is above being wrong, he’s not some uneducated talking head. Also believe Pollack has the credentials to somewhat know what he’s talking about too.

You know what you know, and they know what they know.

Here’s a few more comments about Chase from coaches that worked with both players:

"His get-off, his speed, it's unbelievable," OSU co-defensive coordinator Jeff Hafley said. "It's like nothing I've seen before. It's ridiculous."

"I had a chance to see Nick Bosa last year and I coached in the NFL and saw some really good players at different times," OSU coach Ryan Day said. "But he is as good as I've been around, again, because he's so versatile."

 

[BigNastyFish]

Kinda figured you’d dismiss them. And perhaps you‘re right to do so. Who knows.

However, point again is, there are people that do this for a living and watch college players just as much as you guys do that see Chase a bit differently. You told me you weren’t convinced anybody saw it differently than you. These two obviously do. And I‘ve heard and read others that do as well. Joel Klatt is another off the top of my head. Those guys have said that they’ve talked to numerous scouts and GM’s that say the same. They can’t all be idiots to be easily dismissed!

Again, not saying you‘re wrong. Time will tell. But I am proving the point that there are numerous evaluators out there that see things differently both in Chase Young’s technique and ability and also in comparison to the Bosa’s.

Lastly, IDC what you or anybody else says, I know Joel Klatt to be quite a smart guy and while nobody is above being wrong, he’s not some uneducated talking head. Also believe Pollack has the credentials to somewhat know what he’s talking about too.

Good points... But ya gotta give the Hillbilly credit where it's due -- and as he stated in a post yesterday
he very clearly articulated his position on evaluations in general -- readily admitting he doesn't know
for sure and neither does anyone else -- even the "PROs." That said there's a big difference between
a well informed opinion and one that's just throwing **** on the wall.

IMO Mister Slimm is both well informed and impressively sarcastic!

Beyond that I have a hard time differentiating between righties and southpaws!

 

[EJay]

Good points... But ya gotta give the Hillbilly credit where it's due -- and as he stated in a post yesterday
he very clearly articulated his position on evaluations in general -- readily admitting he doesn't know
for sure and neither does anyone else -- even the "PROs." That said there's a big difference between
a well informed opinion and one that's just throwing **** on the wall.

IMO Mister Slimm is both well informed and impressively sarcastic!

Beyond that I have a hard time differentiating between righties and southpaws!

I can’t differentiate either! Lol.

In all seriousness, I’m trying to tread carefully here. Just having a respectful discussion.

I‘ve been following and reading this site for, I believe, nearly a couple decades now. Over that time, I’ve enjoyed reading Slimm and CK’s contributions as much or more than anyone else. In the early days, I did a lot more reading than contributing. Point is, while I do disagree here and there, I have utmost respect for both of them. I know they aren’t just throwing baseless, thoughtless opinions out there hoping they stick.

That said, in this case, the point of contention has become whether other evaluators see the same technique, first step and bend issues these guys do. And whether CY2 is comparable or potentially better than either or both Bosa brothers. And I‘ve now cited several examples of evaluators praising his quickness, speed, technique and bend. Furthermore, I’ve cited several examples of evaluators on record comparing him to the Bosa’s believing he might be better.

Who is right and who is wrong is still up for debate and a long while from being proven. I’ve already stated that I’m not sold either way, but am open to the possibility. I also don’t see the same technique issues, at least not to the same degree. But that doesn’t mean CY2 will be as good or better.

Since Nick and Joey are already doing it at the next level, I’d bet my money on them. It’s a safer bet. But I’d still draft CY2 and take my chances if Tua isn’t a possibility.

 

[BigNastyFish]

I can’t differentiate either! Lol.

In all seriousness, I’m trying to tread carefully here. Just having a respectful discussion.

I‘ve been following and reading this site for, I believe, nearly a couple decades now. Over that time, I’ve enjoyed reading Slimm and CK’s contributions as much or more than anyone else. In the early days, I did a lot more reading than contributing. Point is, while I do disagree here and there, I have utmost respect for both of them. I know they aren’t just throwing baseless, thoughtless opinions out there hoping they stick.

That said, in this case, the point of contention has become whether other evaluators see the same technique, first step and bend issues these guys do. And whether CY2 is comparable or potentially better than either or both Bosa brothers. And I‘ve now cited several examples of evaluators praising his quickness, speed, technique and bend. Furthermore, I’ve cited several examples of evaluators on record comparing him to the Bosa’s believing he might be better.

Who is right and who is wrong is still up for debate and a long while from being proven. I’ve already stated that I’m not sold either way, but am open to the possibility. I also don’t see the same technique issues, at least not to the same degree. But that doesn’t mean CY2 will be as good or better.

Since Nick and Joey are already doing it at the next level, I’d bet my money on them. It’s a safer bet. But I’d still draft CY2 and take my chances if Tua isn’t a possibility.

I don't know about all the 1st step analysis or loose hips
sink ships let alone definitive player-to-player comparisons.
Bottom line I want players on the field that make impact
plays and can positively affect game outcomes.

I tend to believe Chase Young is probably the best player
in the upcoming draft -- and Flores would use him in a
hybrid role -- and perhaps he's a certified NFL terrorist!

But for whatever reason I find myself less and less sold on
the impending N F L greatness of Tua. I'm in the camp where
Rosen still hasn't had a legit NFL opportunity @QB where his
breed of cat needs protection and a viable running game (yeah
play action is still viable IMO)!

But of course -- let's draft another high quality QB prospect
and build the program with max value in mind! But stop
the nonsense this kid Tua is some kind of guaranteed
savior when there are easily a number of prospects
that may exceed his proficiency in the PROs.

One the other hand, if ??? I really believed this kid Tua
was a true generational talent and pretty much a lock as
a certified "NFL franchise" QB I'd be 100% onboard!
I just don't see it. And I think his downside (weak
arm etc.) is being immaculately ignored!

 

[EJay]

I don't know about all the 1st step analysis or loose hips
sink ships let alone definitive player-to-player comparisons.
Bottom line I want players on the field that make impact
plays and can positively affect game outcomes.

I tend to believe Chase Young is probably the best player
in the upcoming draft -- and Flores would use him in a
hybrid role -- and perhaps he's a certified NFL terrorist!

But for whatever reason I find myself less and less sold on
the impending N F L greatness of Tua. I'm in the camp where
Rosen still hasn't had a legit NFL opportunity @QB where his
breed of cat needs protection and a viable running game (yeah
play action is still viable IMO)!

But of course -- let's draft another high quality QB prospect
and build the program with max value in mind! But stop
the nonsense this kid Tua is some kind of guaranteed
savior when there are easily a number of prospects
that may exceed his proficiency in the PROs.

One the other hand, if ??? I really believed this kid Tua
was a true generational talent and pretty much a lock as
a certified "NFL franchise" QB I'd be 100% onboard!
I just don't see it. And I think his downside (weak
arm etc.) is being immaculately ignored!

I hear you.

But as much as I'm praising Chase Young and would like to see him in a Dolphins uni, I don't believe I could pass on Tua Tagovailoa if I was the GM with the #1 overall pick.

I really like both players. A lot. And while I agree with you that Tua is far from a sure thing, I believe he's shown enough already and has enough potential to warrant risking a top selection on him. Of course if a legit long term injury concern was to crop up once these players start getting dissected from head to toe, then I'd likely change my mind. But for now, I'd have to go with Tua over Chase.

Because I agree with Slimm that landing a QB should be top priority. As long as the one they 100% believe in is available to them. I wouldn't want them drafting for need and taking a QB that is the 'next best available' after the one they really wanted is off the board.

If that should happen, they are better off drafting Chase Young IMO. But that's just me.

Tua Tagovailoa and Chase Young are #1 and #2 respectively on this fan's BIG board.

 

[Dolphins81]

There are only 2 reasons we draft Young. If we don’t get the first pick or Tua stays in college. If we end up with Young, I bet that Burrow will be on the board for our Pittsburgh pick.

 

[BigNastyFish]

I hear you.

But as much as I'm praising Chase Young and would like to see him in a Dolphins uni, I don't believe I could pass on Tua Tagovailoa if I was the GM with the #1 overall pick.

I really like both players. A lot. And while I agree with you that Tua is far from a sure thing, I believe he's shown enough already and has enough potential to warrant risking a top selection on him. Of course if a legit long term injury concern was to crop up once these players start getting dissected from head to toe, then I'd likely change my mind. But for now, I'd have to go with Tua over Chase.

Because I agree with Slimm that landing a QB should be top priority. As long as the one they 100% believe in is available to them. I wouldn't want them drafting for need and taking a QB that is the 'next best available' after the one they really wanted is off the board.

If that should happen, they are better off drafting Chase Young IMO. But that's just me.

Tua Tagovailoa and Chase Young are #1 and #2 respectively on this fan's BIG board.

Given the multitude of evaluators and resulting opinions, I seriously doubt any team can have a "100% belief" (certainty) with any one prospect. But like I said, of course QB is a priority and it's a guarantee the position will be addressed -- I expect 2 times (#1 and grab a developmental QB day 2-3).

My point is simple. I question betting the farm on a small frame quarterback with average arm strength in a draft class that features Justin Herbert, Joe Barrow, Jacob Eason, Jake Fromm, Jordon Love and Jalen Hurts.

And just to keep things "real," there's just as much certainty that group will produce a few NFL QBs that wind up being as proficient, if not more than Tua, in the PROs.

That said, if we land the #1 pick and a team is willing to literally "sell the farm" for the opportunity to draft Tua -- I'd surely look long and hard at that. For example, we could conceivably grab that teams #1, #2 and #3 in '20, and also get their #1, #2 and #3 in '21! Maybe even more!

Pretty sure with all that kind of ammunition we can more than effectively address the QB position AND pretty much rebuild the roster with premium talent!

Last, I realize the favored pick is Tua and odds are if we're in position to land him we do. And if that happens I'm OK with it. But I think a lot of folks around here will be in for a rather rude awakening when the kid fails to live up to the lofty expectations placed on him. It's quite possible he struggles out of the gate. If that happens -- the blow back will be immense.

Certainly within the realm of possibility that Rosen beats him out. If that happened, then we have all those potential "resources" wrapped up in one player sitting on the bench.

Bottom line, if this kid is really all that great -- I want to see him throw the ball at the combine and COMPETE. If we're going to have to make that kind of investment in him then I don't think that's asking too much.

 

[Rolltide03]

Tua might struggle at first but not enough for Rosen to beat him out. If you want to know how he competes with others without Bama, he did light up an elite 11 at the high school competition and won MVP over some other highly regarded qbs. Small example but I remember watching that and he sure as hell competed then without Bama

 

[BigNastyFish]

Tua might struggle at first but not enough for Rosen to beat him out. If you want to know how he competes with others without Bama, he did light up an elite 11 at the high school competition and won MVP over some other highly regarded qbs. Small example but I remember watching that and he sure as hell competed then without Bama

Good for him. Then don't be shy at the combine.

No more "highly controlled" (sheltered) situations like the kid benefits from in 'bama.

I'm not expecting him to blow scouts away with his arm -- but he better be more than capable to COMPETE.

I really don't understand how any fan of the Miami Dolphins could be opposed to his participation?

I mean you're supposed to be a professional level athlete -- so why be afraid of a little direct comparison?

 

[Rolltide03]

Good for him. Then don't be shy at the combine.

No more "highly controlled" (sheltered) situations like the kid benefits from in 'bama.

I'm not expecting him to blow scouts away with his arm -- but he better be more than capable to COMPETE.

I really don't understand how any fan of the Miami Dolphins could be opposed to his participation?

I mean you're supposed to be a professional level athlete -- so why be afraid of a little direct comparison?

I don’t really get it either but I’m sure that’s not his thinking. He’ll go in there expecting to perfect and be pissed if he messes one thing up. I understand the concern about arm strength, I think it’s still above average but him being great at other things magnifies it. We’ll see

 

[BigNastyFish]

I don’t really get it either but I’m sure that’s not his thinking. He’ll go in there expecting to perfect and be pissed if he messes one thing up. I understand the concern about arm strength, I think it’s still above average but him being great at other things magnifies it. We’ll see

Tried to research but I couldn't find a particular throw Tua made against TN -- I'd say about 30 yards

straight down field -- attempting a fast ball. Anyway he significantly stepped into the throw (minimal arc)

but the ball was obviously a dying quail by the time it reached the WR -- who had to come back a few yards

to make the catch off the turf. Luckily he was 5 yards + open and made the play. Anyway -- the play was like

***red flags*** for me when it comes to Tua attacking downfield (or deep outs) where VELOCITY is critical!

I just tend to think top shelf N F L defenses will see the same and defend Tua accordingly...

He's a dink and dunk "lobber" who lacks the "heat" to really challenge defenses DEEP & WIDE.

 

[Jerrysanders]

Chase Young ceiling is better than both the Bosa's due to athleticism, (the Bosa's have better knee flexion and ankle flexion)
His tape this season is far better than Nick Bosa's at Ohio State, Joey Bosa gets manhandled practically every time he faces an elite Tackle (it's seems great technique and hand placement can only take you so far) but luckily for him there's enough bad Tackles in the league to manage double digit sack seasons.

 

[Jerrysanders]

People aren’t talking about Andrew Thomas enough. That’s as top 3 worthy as any non qb.

What’s the take on the houston tackle? I’ve seen him mocked top 10 lately. Never seen him.

Thomas erased Florida's elite pass rush today, u can also go back to last year and watch how he whipped Josh Allen who's currently whipping NFL tackles right now.