Closer Look at Grier's Drafts | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Closer Look at Grier's Drafts

Swollcolb said:
This years draft and next years draft will make or break Grier. So far looks like he did a good job with this years class. I actually think Grier has done a good job in drafts his free agent acquisitions worry me a little more
Click to expand...
One thing I give him credit for that many overlook, since he has been alone at the top.

His handling of the cap, and the team friendly contracts he has negotiated. Sure, there have been a couple head scratchers, but overall pretty good.

That is also an important responsibility for a GM.
 
Last edited:
While I’m a pro-Grier guy, I do have to admit that he still scares the **** outta me when it comes to free agency.

Something I do think he needs props for: Once Ross declared we were going for a full rebuild and gave Grier final say, the first thing Grier went out and did was grab 2 very experienced front office guys in Marvin Allen and Reggie McKenzie to surround himself with. Both of those guys are very respected throughout the league and both have GM experience. To me, it shows a lot about Grier that as soon as he’s fully given the reigns, he goes out and hires 2 individuals that most people would see as threats to their job. It shows me that Grier isn’t hell bent on being the loudest voice in the room.

And while I am concerned about his past draft history and Free Agent signings, I do think he deserves massive props in the asset collection portion of this rebuild. If we were grading Grier on how he’s performed his job since this rebuild began, I think he’s doing solid work. If he can build on that, I’m not super concerned about anything that came before.
 
FinFaninSeattle said:
He's objectively a terrible drafter and worse G.M. This isn't even worth debating any longer. Just because that was his first official year as G.M. does not mean he wasn't instrumental in our drafts for the last decade and a half which his defenders conveniently dismiss because it doesn't fit their agenda. It's extremely rare that you give a G.M. that caused the need for a rebuild, the keys to the franchise for another rebuild. But Ross is such a buffoon when it comes to football that's exactly what he's signed off on.
Click to expand...

The problem with your side of the coin is that we really don’t have enough information to grade him as a GM in the past. Unless you were in the room with Grier and Ireland, or Grier and Tannenbaum, we have no way of knowing which players Grier loved, which ones he didn’t love, and just how much weight his opinions carried during that time. Hell, maybe he’s the reason that we drafted Charles Harris, but then again, maybe he was begging Ross to pick TJ Watt and got overruled. The problem with any Grier debate is that regardless if you love him or hate him, we just don’t have the information necessary to make an informed decision. That’s why I’m keying in on how he performs his job from last year moving forward.
 
Etuoo33 said:
28 of the 40 choices are on a NFL roster not counting Harris as being on one ( who cares he was a stiff here). Harris is the big gaffe on Grier's record, the one we ALL hate. I am not convinced the Mike TannenBum didn't have final say over the 16-17-18 drafts, but supposing it's all on Grier28/40 is not all that bad as far as NFL success goes. What is not factoed is Tua. We all know thst judment on Grier is tied to Tua, and how Flores work out. Many were happy with the HC last year, many wanted to 'tank for Tua or were willing to trade up for him. IMO Grier played that one well. He also did a better than average job of getting rid of the stiffs, and getting the salary cap under control. My point? Some people can't stand prosperity. Tannenbum is looking for a job, for those people.
Click to expand...
One point I actually haven't heard yet...
so the evidence to me shows Grier is an average->slightly above avg talent evaluator as a GM. I get that it would be great to hire someone at the very top, that level does exist. But what is your magic plan for landing one of these guys? Proven track record that's better than Grier's with lots of experience....if a top qb is hard to find, doubly so a top GM. Almost by definition the ones that get let go are ones with question marks, it's how we got Tannenbaum.
 
Grier gets graded for 2019 and beyond. I can’t really hold him accountable for the Tannenbaum era. So far his 2019 draft looks weak, and 2020 looks strong, but both could change.
 
isaacjunk said:
One point I actually haven't heard yet...
so the evidence to me shows Grier is an average->slightly above avg talent evaluator as a GM. I get that it would be great to hire someone at the very top, that level does exist. But what is your magic plan for landing one of these guys? Proven track record that's better than Grier's with lots of experience....if a top qb is hard to find, doubly so a top GM. Almost by definition the ones that get let go are ones with question marks, it's how we got Tannenbaum.
Click to expand...

Its really unfair to judge any GM without being able to see them work in tandem with a coach that's able to establish an identity on both sides of the ball. That 2019 draft doesn't look half bad right now. Wilkins looks good and Gaskin and Cox are contributing. Van Ginkel has shown enough to think he might be able to develop into a quality starter sometime down the road. Batting .500 is pretty impressive in this game. But if for some reason Flores had been axed this offseason there is a real possibility that half those guys wouldn't even be playing in the league this season and that draft would be labeled a failure.

I think this concept of talent evaluator is a bit overrated. The great GMs are those that can identify players that are going to put forth the effort to improve their game and be receptive to the coaching provided.
 
The Ghost said:
Caught a game winner against SF in 2016 which helped to get us to the playoffs, so we at least got SOMETHING out of him.
Click to expand...
I’ll never forget him Mossing the Colts DB on a 75 yard bomb from Tanny. He had skills. Not sure why he couldn’t make it.
 
superphin said:
If you are referring to Tunsil and Fitzpatrick that is 2 players out of 23 total drafted between 2016-2018. What about the other 21 players selected? Furthermore while they were solid players for us Fitzpatrick wasn't an All Pro until he went to Pitt. Like I said the Bucs GM doesn't get credit for drafting HOF QB Steve Young, Bill Walsh gets credit for trading for him and developing him same for the falcons GM not getting credit for drafting HOF QB Brett Favre.

We have 3 draft classes from 2016, 2017, and 2018. Out of those 3 how many players are currently starters? How many players are making positive contributions on this team. How many are JAGS and how many are actually good players? Sure Tunsil and Fitzpatrick weren't necessarily bad picks but what about the other 21 picks?

2016

1. Laremy Tunsil LT--Gone but fine they offered a kings ransom so not too upset
2. Xavien Howard CB--starter-good player
3. Kenyan Drake RB--gone
3. Leonte Carroo Wr--gone
6. Jakeem Grant Wr--contributes--JAG
6. Jordan Lucas Cb--gone
7. Brandon Doughty Qb--gone
7. Thomas Duarte TE--gone

2017

1. Charles Harris DE--gone
2. Raekwon McMillan LB--gone
3. Cordrea Tankersley CB--gone
5. Isaac Asiata OG--gone
5. Davon Godchaux DT--starter--JAG
6. Vincent Taylor NT--gone
7. Isaiah Ford Wr.--jag

2018

1. Minkah Fitzpatrick S--gone but traded for a 1st
2. Mike Gesicki TE--Starter--good player
3. Jerome Baker LB--Starter--JAG
4. Durham Smythe TE--jag
4. Kalen Ballage RB--gone
6. Cornell Armstrong CB--gone
7. Quintin Polling LB--gone
7. Jason Sanders K--Starer

Out of 3 draft classes and 21 players not names Fitz or Tunsil we ended up with 3 good starters in Howard, Gesicki, and Sanders. That makes it bad drafting.
Click to expand...
Whether one wants to debate the definition of a JAG vs good player, the thing that jumps out is he hasn’t hit on a single player who is a universal stud (eg, impact player and it can’t be debated). Mehhhhhh
 
People fail to understand how much T-bag ****ed up the work the office before him did on the cap. I don't know what the actual structure of the front office was in terms of drafts and free agents during T-bag's time (rumors abound). Dawn Aponte had the cap in tremendous shape, Ireland was just terrible at finding talent. It took Tannenbaum all of 2.2secs to get his grubby little finger prints all over the team. I will say one thing about Grier, has he whiffed on draft picks, yup. Has signed free agents who fizzled, sure. Has he messed up the cap space doing so and has he given away capital to do so, absolutely not.

He has ensured if he does swing and miss he at least gets another turn at bat and that is something the offices before him did not do.
 
2017 was awful. Throw that off the resume. A lot of picks where they ignored athletic numbers and hoped that the tape would translate and it didn't.

I'll read after i post this so I don't know all that was said yet, but there is some good, some really awful, and a lot of meh.

Now from what I know the scouting department recently (as in since Tannenbaum left) was instructed to change how they did things. Long story short we were way behind in how we scouted for the draft. Getting McKenzie and Allen have helped with that.... now will that pan out or not? TBD
 
I think Grier doing good job but they must find ways win next yr..the only problem I see in future that might hurt dolphins is Allen and Cam or Bill's and N.E.
 
Grier’s doing fine, it’s all up to Tua. I’m more concerned about the coaching staff but was very happy with how the whole team responded last week. This week will be a great test because Seattle can be beat, but it’s going to require great coaching...
 
Mach2 said:
One thing I give him credit for that many overlook, since he has been alone at the top.

His handling of the cap, and the team friendly contracts he has negotiated. Sure, there have been a couple head scratchers, but overall pretty good.

That is also an important responsibility for a GM.
Click to expand...
I have voiced my displeasure on here, many times, about many of his draft picks. But last year I gave him major props for his trades. He's done well with the cap too...getting out of the mess that Tannenbaum put us in with some horrible contracts.
 
Curiously, generally speaking, why would a scouting department be decent with drafting but bad with free agents?

Let's put aside the handling of the cap and contracts...just the boom/bust aspect of a FA.
If you miss on a free agent, aside from injury, seems like either
: he got lazy after cashing in
: you mistranslated the fit for your scheme
: (rarely) personal conflict with coach

But drafting seems to encompass these problems and more. You gotta worry about all those 3 issues plus how college talent translates to the NFL based on limited tape vs quality competition, and deal with projected growth + evolution of a very young player + person.

My best guesses:
- comes down to individual scouts and where/which side of the fence they work on. You could just have the wrong people making the calls + propogating data upwards in one half of the dept.
- it all is actually about the same, and thus we should judge FA + draft boom/bust ratio as one big pot, not separately. Sample size can show effects where they don't truly exist.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom