Commentary: Red Flags on Young and Leinart

[ether79]

youve been saying forever how vince young is a good QB. so how contridicting is this?


you think that all the scouts and GMs played QB, or coached QB?

Or the fact that Chris Mortensen wrote an article about how top level scouts said almost the exact thing KB said about both QBs.

 

[fishypete]

youve been saying forever how vince young is a good QB. so how contridicting is this?


you think that all the scouts and GMs played QB, or coached QB?

What part Nappy didn't you understand? Keith Box isn't a scout...has limited knowledge of quarterbacks....he is a student....he in no way...is a expert...and his opinion is biased as usual.

Just think about it....Leinart and Young have done more....but Cutler is the better pick. Leinart and Young have red flag's...but Cutler has a strong arm.
Leinart and Young have played for two of the best schools in all of college football, both have won National championships....where did Cutler play and what did he achieve?

It takes more than just a strong arm....to be a great quarterback...or to even play for a great school.

As I wrote....if he wrote this as just a fan....thats one item...but to make it sound like he has the experience and background to back up what most real experts are saying opposite of what he believes...is biased reporting on his part. At least wait for the combine and the senior bowl...before you hype up a player...thats no better than the 3rd best quarterback, if Young comes out.

 

[fishypete]

Or the fact that Chris Mortensen wrote an article about how top level scouts said almost the exact thing KB said about both QBs.

If Young comes out....do you believe that Cutler will be selected over him or even Leinart?

 

[ether79]

If Young comes out....do you believe that Cutler will be selected over him or even Leinart?

Umm nope. In the end COULD he end up better? You bet. History proves that to be possible.

 

[fishypete]

Umm nope. In the end COULD he end up better? You bet. History proves that to be possible.

Anything is possible....but most is unlikely.

Frankly...I could care less right now....unless Saban pulls off a Ditka...the Dolphins won't be acquiring a first round Quarterback in this draft and as I stated many times before...I doubt he'll use his first rounder for ANY quarterback...I'm looking towards the mid rounds, for that.

 

[ether79]

Anything is possible....but most is unlikely.

Frankly...I could care less right now....unless Saban pulls off a Ditka...the Dolphins won't be acquiring a first round Quarterback in this draft and as I stated many times before...I doubt he'll use his first rounder for ANY quarterback...I'm looking towards the mid rounds, for that.

Exactly, I'm with you there. He isn't moving up and if Cutler falls to 16th(unlikely IMO) then we'll just have to see. I could see him taking Cutler, depending on what else is there.

 

[KB21]

Anything is possible....but most is unlikely.

Frankly...I could care less right now....unless Saban pulls off a Ditka...the Dolphins won't be acquiring a first round Quarterback in this draft and as I stated many times before...I doubt he'll use his first rounder for ANY quarterback...I'm looking towards the mid rounds, for that.

Oh, it's very likely. The history of the position in the NFL shows that run first quarterbacks like Vince Young do not fair well in the league.

If Matt Leinart shows that he has enough arm to make all the throws, then there is no question in my mind that he will be the best quarterback of this group. Jay Cutler, IMO, will be the second best, followed by a healthy Brodie Croyle. I don't even consider Vince Young a quarterback, and if I were drafting him high, it would be as a wide receiver.

 

[fishypete]

Oh, it's very likely. The history of the position in the NFL shows that run first quarterbacks like Vince Young do not fair well in the league.

If Matt Leinart shows that he has enough arm to make all the throws, then there is no question in my mind that he will be the best quarterback of this group. Jay Cutler, IMO, will be the second best, followed by a healthy Brodie Croyle. I don't even consider Vince Young a quarterback, and if I were drafting him high, it would be as a wide receiver.

And thats why your not a expert.....Vick hasn't done well?

You say run first Keith...but you aren't looking at the offensive plays called for him. The reason why he runs is part of the total package....he doesn't run first...he watches the defense....if the end comes inward...he has a open lane to run threw....so he is watching the defense...isn't he.
He's the first college player to ever run for over 1000 yds and throw for over 3000 yds. How many yards does it take for you to realize he's a QB? Does a run first QB....acquire over 3000 yds passing? He's a freak of nature...has it all....and with the right team could be a great QB in the NFL. The key is not to try to change him....just like Rivers...he is what he is.

 

[TotoreMexico]

Discuss this article or suffer dire consequences: http://www.finheaven.com/cms/265.html.

Great article

 

[BlueFin]

I like many of KB's points but a few things:

1) There is no such thing as Southern Cal. That term is an ignorant creation of the midwestern and eastern press. The USC SID Tim Tessalone puts a note in his media guide every year that it's not an acceptable reference, for print or media covering USC games. It's like saying South Fla for the University of South Florida, or North Car for the University of North Carolina.

2) Yards per attempt is a pro stat, not a college stat. I work in a sports stat office and we emphasize YPA above all in pros, and don't even chart it in college. I can't even imagine charting it in college given the nature of the sport.

Vince Young's game simply doesn't translate perfectly to the NFL, where he won't have zone read plays to rely on and his flawed throwing motion will be a liability much more often. Plus a loping long strider like that is going to get whacked in the big league. I don't agree his touch is poor. Last night he misfired on the downfield throws but that's hardly typical of the season. His accuracy and touch improved greatly this year. Young does tend to float the deep passes a bit too much.

Leinart had plenty of zip in the 2nd half. It's an overwhelming tendency with Leinart that he lobs the ball too much against lesser foes or defenses that he doesn't respect, but shows much more zip when USC feels threatened. I was very surprised he put so much air on passes in the first half, including the poorly thrown INT in the end zone. Going into the game I expected game long zip similar to last year's Orange Bowl. Leinart will have to be pestered in that regard in the NFL but I'm sure the game in and game out requirements will force a change in his velocity.

Cutler doesn't have enough variety in his pace and loft. I'm constantly amazed that isn't emphasized more. I watched almost every game, not just the celebrated comebacks against Tennessee and Florida. You take away his intermediate fastball and Cutler has almost nothing to fall back on. That's how he went 11 for 32 for 137 yards and 2 INTs against LSU. Before the Miami/LSU game I wrote on Canes message boards that it was a stern test for Kyle Wright because Wright has some of the same tendencies as Cutler, a strong arm but not enough variety in his lofts or enough field awareness to adjust to situation. Sure enough, Wright looked almost exactly the same as Cutler against LSU, if not worse.

There again, Jay Cutler leading Vandy against an LSU defense recruited and coached by Nick Saban up until this season is a little like Custer leading under 200 soldiers against several thousand Sioux at little Big Horn.

When assessing these guys you have to take into account the talent around them as well.

 

[fishypete]

There again, Jay Cutler leading Vandy against an LSU defense recruited and coached by Nick Saban up until this season is a little like Custer leading under 200 soldiers against several thousand Sioux at little Big Horn.

When assessing these guys you have to take into account the talent around them as well.

The Sioux won that game....did Cutler? :sidelol:

 

[BlueFin]

The Sioux won that game....did Cutler? :sidelol:

That was the point Pete, Custer was considered a very good warrior and leader, Like Cutler, Custers team was overmatched and had no real chance to do well in that battle, just as Jay Cutler had little chance of doing well against Sabans recruited defense.

 

[wazzy]

I like many of KB's points but a few things:

1) There is no such thing as Southern Cal. That term is an ignorant creation of the midwestern and eastern press. The USC SID Tim Tessalone puts a note in his media guide every year that it's not an acceptable reference, for print or media covering USC games. It's like saying South Fla for the University of South Florida, or North Car for the University of North Carolina.

2) Yards per attempt is a pro stat, not a college stat. I work in a sports stat office and we emphasize YPA above all in pros, and don't even chart it in college. I can't even imagine charting it in college given the nature of the sport.

Vince Young's game simply doesn't translate perfectly to the NFL, where he won't have zone read plays to rely on and his flawed throwing motion will be a liability much more often. Plus a loping long strider like that is going to get whacked in the big league. I don't agree his touch is poor. Last night he misfired on the downfield throws but that's hardly typical of the season. His accuracy and touch improved greatly this year. Young does tend to float the deep passes a bit too much.

Leinart had plenty of zip in the 2nd half. It's an overwhelming tendency with Leinart that he lobs the ball too much against lesser foes or defenses that he doesn't respect, but shows much more zip when USC feels threatened. I was very surprised he put so much air on passes in the first half, including the poorly thrown INT in the end zone. Going into the game I expected game long zip similar to last year's Orange Bowl. Leinart will have to be pestered in that regard in the NFL but I'm sure the game in and game out requirements will force a change in his velocity.

Cutler doesn't have enough variety in his pace and loft. I'm constantly amazed that isn't emphasized more. I watched almost every game, not just the celebrated comebacks against Tennessee and Florida. You take away his intermediate fastball and Cutler has almost nothing to fall back on. That's how he went 11 for 32 for 137 yards and 2 INTs against LSU. Before the Miami/LSU game I wrote on Canes message boards that it was a stern test for Kyle Wright because Wright has some of the same tendencies as Cutler, a strong arm but not enough variety in his lofts or enough field awareness to adjust to situation. Sure enough, Wright looked almost exactly the same as Cutler against LSU, if not worse.

Great post man ....... and solid read on the article I don't agree on all the comments made.

 

[BlueFin]

Nice article KB, I happen to agree with most of your assessments.

I do find it funny the euphoria you see fans get over a college performance, everything is on A whole other level in the NFL, I still remember what a free wheeling weapon Peter Warrick was at FSU, and how little of that ability we've seen in the NFL.

I do think some of the criticisms of Cutler stem from bad habits created by having inferior talent around him, I believe the Senior Bowl will awaken many to Jay Cutler.

 

[Regan21286]

Oh, it's very likely. The history of the position in the NFL shows that run first quarterbacks like Vince Young do not fair well in the league.

If Matt Leinart shows that he has enough arm to make all the throws, then there is no question in my mind that he will be the best quarterback of this group. Jay Cutler, IMO, will be the second best, followed by a healthy Brodie Croyle. I don't even consider Vince Young a quarterback, and if I were drafting him high, it would be as a wide receiver.

Run first QB's fair well when they become pass first QB's like McNabb.

Leinart will have enough opportunity to prove himself at the Combine and workouts. Too bad he can't pull a Marino and drop to our spot.