Darlington: Dolphins will take time with GM hire, might not be this week

[J Tes]

Good question. Maybe you should ask the Jets since they took Stephan Hill 43rd overall in 2012 after a 3 year career that included 49 receptions for 1248 yards and 9 TDs...did I mention that's over 3 years? Maybe it was the 4.36 he ran at the combine.

Yes because every player that runs fast times at the combine gets drafted high... Or not. There's more to watching tape of players and evaluating them than just stats. Hence why they watch the tape. I would hope a "draft guru" knows what to look for in a player other than reading his stat line

 

[truedolfan57]

Good question. Maybe you should ask the Jets since they took Stephan Hill 43rd overall in 2012 after a 3 year career that included 49 receptions for 1248 yards and 9 TDs...did I mention that's over 3 years? Maybe it was the 4.36 he ran at the combine.

1. They are the Jets.
2. Hill is not worth a 2nd round pick.
3. They are the Jets.

 

[Hayden Fox]

Didn't Ross tell Ireland that the HC and GM will report to a czar type and thats why Ireland walked? If so, could the czar be Mangini? Or was Ross trying to make Ireland quit? Was Farmer with the browns with Mangini and Aponte?

No on the Mangini connection to Farmer. I don't think it is a crazy thought they are interested in someone still in the playoffs.

 

[hoops]

What would he have to gain by "lying" about it?

they are not gonna tell you everything...maybe if they write a book to get you to buy it they will...sure they have boards and maybe throwing out that 90 percent number as far as who's on it is correct but to say those grades are pretty much in stone is bs...why even have the combine the senior bowl etc just line all the kids up and let em run a 40 and draft em of that and the tape alone...why because all these other things matter and boards are fluid within them...

i know they probably want people to drink up that they are just that good...but the reality is they are not...a lot of em have shown they aren't worth a crap anyways...the draft results do the talking...but i know because i don't work in the league i must not know as much about the process or be as good as the ones that do...i love that argument...

 

[hoops]

What reason would they have to lie about this? What reason would, more to the point, a former scout have to lie about it? What purpose could it serve?

It's telling you're not offering any actual information or sources here. Only innuendo and vague statements like "I know how the process works." Based on what, do you know? Who told you? Where did you read it? Oh, that's right... you already said it doesn't matter what these guys say about how the process works because they're all lying and you really know how it works.

I'm all about the virtues of skepticism and not being credulous but I'm not about deliberately being ignorant and appealing just to my intuition as source material.

you believe whatever you want to boss...ignorant is a proper word use

nothing i could say will change a thing for you so why try...keep on keeping on

 

[truedolfan57]

they are not gonna tell you everything...maybe if they write a book to get you to buy it they will...sure they have boards and maybe throwing out that 90 percent number as far as who's on it is correct but to say those grades are pretty much in stone is bs...why even have the combine the senior bowl etc just line all the kids up and let em run a 40 and draft em of that and the tape alone...why because all these other things matter and boards are fluid within them...

i know they probably want people to drink up that they are just that good...but the reality is they are not...a lot of em have shown they aren't worth a crap anyways...the draft results do the talking...but i know because i don't work in the league i must not know as much about the process or be as good as the ones that do...i love that argument...

I would expect they have players on a bubble, that perhaps they haven't met in person yet, or see how they do at the combine, but it's probably pretty rare to have a player move up a whole lot between the combine and senior bowl. Not saying it can't happen, but doubt it happens much.

 

[J Tes]

GMs don't divulge their draft methods, who they're interested in, how they evaluate players...none of that stuff. Too much information would give another team a better educated guess in who they might take and that puts him at a disadvantage. Another team could trade up in front of them and take the player they want.

He no longer worked for a team when he said that so there was no team(s) to try and deceive

 

[TheWalrus]

There's another myth being perpetuated in this thread which I think I covered earlier but perhaps I didn't. Just because a team is highly interested in triangle numbers doesn't mean they have to wait to the Combine to acquire those numbers. Players run every year at every school in the Spring (they also take the Wonderlic, or at least they used to). Teams send their scouts out and get reports on it. Then they also get reports on what these kids are running in the lead up to the Combine at wherever they're training.

Hoops has brought up Lane Johnson a few times. Well people were talking about Lane Johnson running in the 4.7 to 4.8 range during the season, and we heard about it ad naseum before the Combine ever happened. How did people know this? Because Indy wasn't the first time Lane Johnson ran a 40 when there was a stopwatch around.

The Combine helps standardize the numbers -- since everyone is running on the same surface -- but it is not the only way to get the numbers. Every team has a pretty good idea -- from previous workouts, school visits and the tape -- what these kids are going to run before they ever get to Indy.

 

[hoops]

guys reportedly run a certain # all the time only to come to the combine and drop a crap #...again those boards aren't fixed...

guys run on fast surfaces and put up gaudy numbers etc...some tracks are notoriously fast...teams will add or subtract a .10 etc because of it...just a lot to it...more than could be explained here i guess

but i've said my piece...

 

[TheWalrus]

you believe whatever you want to boss...ignorant is a proper word use

nothing i could say will change a thing for you so why try...keep on keeping on

If you're going to admit as you did in the post before this one that the 90 percent figure is accurate then I have made my point. All I was arguing from the beginning is that this part of the process is a relatively small piece of the puzzle. I think 10 percent qualifies.

 

[Hayden Fox]

If you're going to admit as you did in the post before this one that the 90 percent figure is accurate then I have made my point. All I was arguing from the beginning is that this part of the process is a relatively small piece of the puzzle. I think 10 percent qualifies.

That is the point that I have thought all the while watching this debate unfold. You said 90%…not 100%. So what I was thinking was if a player was high on a team's board, but he failed a drug test, he would drop. If a play was red flagged with an injury from the fall, but checked out okay in the spring, he might move up.

Never did Walrus say the draft board was written down in Sharpie ink.

 

[hoops]

If you're going to admit as you did in the post before this one that the 90 percent figure is accurate then I have made my point. All I was arguing from the beginning is that this part of the process is a relatively small piece of the puzzle. I think 10 percent qualifies.

no i said that 90 percent of the players on their board as in who they will have as guys they would be ok with drafting is done...but the actual grades finalized 90 percent is not the case...not at all...

they wont finalize those til after the postseason process or during when they get confirmation or reasons to go back and take more looks etc to see if they missed something...they dont do this whole thing for show guys

not to mention the combine medical reports and the guys they have come back for a 2nd look if they see something in the initial medical testing etc...it is far from a finished product

 

[TheWalrus]

guys reportedly run a certain # all the time only to come to the combine and drop a crap #...again those boards aren't fixed...

guys run on fast surfaces and put up gaudy numbers etc...some tracks are notoriously fast...teams will add or subtract a .10 etc because of it...just a lot to it...more than could be explained here i guess

but i've said my piece...

Yup. Texas and Ohio State are notorious. But teams have a pretty good fix on it by now.

Part of the larger reason for this whole all-star/combine phase of the process is to get a sense of how hard these guys work. Do they grind, or do they check out, gain weight and stop lifting? Checking their weight, how much they bench, how their speed is staying up over time... a lot of that is about testing a guy's work ethic.

 

[Hayden Fox]

Yup. Texas and Ohio State are notorious. But teams have a pretty good fix on it by now.

Part of the larger reason for this whole all-star/combine phase of the process is to get a sense of how hard these guys work. Do they grind, or do they check out, gain weight and stop lifting? Checking their weight, how much they bench, how their speed is staying up over time... a lot of that is about testing a guy's work ethic.

I also think to that when a player comes in out of shape and cannot do certain athletic activities well for their positions, it shows they don't care much. See Damontre Moore.

 

[NBP81]

If you're going to admit as you did in the post before this one that the 90 percent figure is accurate then I have made my point. All I was arguing from the beginning is that this part of the process is a relatively small piece of the puzzle. I think 10 percent qualifies.

I was just thinking the same thing, you two are arguing while actually agreeing with each other at the same time... Was about to put up the odds on who will realize this first...
EDIT: guess you`re not agreeing at all...